Carnegie Mellon Math Jam
Go back to the Math Jam ArchiveU.S. IMO Team Leader and CMU faculty member Po-Shen Loh will join John Mackey (Associate Department Head of Mathematics), Mark Stehlik (Assistant Dean of Computer Science), Nick Hinkle (Senior Assistant Director of Admission), and David Altizio (current CMU student and AoPS 5000+ poster, a.k.a. djmathman) to discuss the excitement which is brewing at CMU.
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Facilitator: Po-Shen Loh
Hello and welcome to the Carnegie Mellon Math Jam!
I'm Dave Patrick -- you may know me as an online instructor in the AoPS Online School, and as the author of some of the AoPS textbooks.
I am especially pleased to have our guests from Carnegie Mellon joining us tonight, as I am a proud member of the CMU Class of 1992 (B.S. in Math/Computer Science and M.S. in Math). At least one of our guests tonight might remember me from when I was a student.
Before I introduce our guests, let me explain about this classroom. This room is moderated, which means that all your questions and comments come to the moderators. We may share your comments with the whole room if we so choose.
Now let me introduce our guests for the evening. (Their usernames are in bold as I introduce them.)
Po-Shen Loh (psloh) is a math enthusiast and evangelist, who works on projects across the math research/education spectrum. He is a math professor at Carnegie Mellon, the national coach of the USA International Math Olympiad team, and the founder of the startup expii.com. His math research focuses on Combinatorics, with particular interest in probabilistic arguments. He went to Caltech as an undergraduate thanks to a merit-based scholarship, and completed a masters degree in mathematics at the University of Cambridge under the Churchill Scholarship. He then went to Princeton for his Ph.D., and has been at Carnegie Mellon ever since.
John Mackey (jmackey) barely graduated from high school, and went to a state college that was required to take all Ohio graduates. He did extraordinarily well, but decided to go to the University of Hawaii to learn more about Polynesian and Asian culture, as well as to learn surfing and develop a deeper understanding of math. Although people said he would never get a job, he was able to secure a John Wesley Young instructorship at Dartmouth, where he taught for 4 years. He moved on to be a Preceptor of math at Harvard from 2000-2003. Needing bigger challenges and cheaper real estate, he moved to Pittsburgh, PA, to see how many John Nashes could be produced at CMU during his career.
Mark Stehlik (mjs-cmu) grew up in New York City and came to Carnegie Mellon in 1979 in order to get his Ph.D. so that he could teach Computer Science and leave Pittsburgh to teach in a "real" city (New York warps ones view that way). He never did finish his Ph.D., but has been teaching Computer Science as a member of the Carnegie Mellon faculty for over 30 years. In addition to teaching, Mark ran the Computer Science undergraduate program since its inception in 1988 and advised and graduated over 2,700 alumni. He has also taught at CMU's campus in Doha, Qatar where he spent the last 3 years as Associate Dean for Education in "the land of sand". He is now back in Pittsburgh teaching and advising and is also in charge of Alumni Engagement and Outreach.
(I am one of those 2700 alumni!)
Nick Hinkle (nhinkle) is a Senior Assistant Director of Admission in Carnegie Mellon's Office of Undergraduate Admission. He has been with CMU for one year and is originally from Michigan. While at CMU he has worked alongside many groups including faculty, athletic coaches and current students. During college, besides taking naps, Nick was a communication major and captain of the swim team (he doesn't miss the 5:30 am practices). Despite being a Michigan native, Nick loves living in Pittsburgh, in particular the great food. Most recently he ate at Tako in the Downtown area, where he had a taco with octopus! He thoroughly enjoys assisting families/students with the college admission process, having 7 years of experience in higher education (admission and college coaching), and is here to help answer any questions!
David Altizio (djmathman) is a freshman mathematics major at CMU and an avid Art of Problem Solving user for the past five years. His interest in mathematics is often attributed to a library book sale in 4th grade, when he noticed several previously untouched mathematics textbooks, bought them, and consequently learned the importance of attempting algebra before calculus. Over the years, he has been bestowed various acclaims and honors, including an USAMO qualification in senior year and the privilege of losing to a future USA IMO team member in his very first FTW game. Although he is no longer a high school math contest participant, he still contributes to the competition atmosphere in many back-end activities, including TA'ing for the AwesomeMath Summer Program and writing problems for various competitions. His motto in life is that every Olympiad Geometry problem can be solved without the use of coordinates.
Thanks very much to all our guests for spending part of their evening with us tonight.
Now, I'll turn the floor over to Po-Shen.
Hello, everybody!
It's a beautiful night out here in Pittsburgh, PA.
And we're thrilled to share it with all of you on AoPS.
Hello from Austin, TX!
We're here in John Mackey's office, united by math and computer science, and a common interest in problem solving.
Here's a problem that we like solving:
How do you create the ideal college experience a math/science/tech enthusiast?
Hint: The answer is different for each student!
... and that's the core of our approach at Carnegie Mellon University.
On that note, let's switch from monologue to dialogue.
This is now an AMA!
What interests you?
What do you want to get out of your college experience?
How can we help you visualize CMU?
Fire away with questions on anything.
Math, science, technology, college, contests, life... all fair game!
I see the questions coming in. Here we go! We like a good typing challenge.
Hello!
let the party start
To what extent does previous CS experience play a role in CS admissions?
@mssmath- while CS/experience is nice to see for CS applicants, we are more focused on high level math (BC calculus and beyond)
What are we going to talk about tonight?
Anything you like!
start!!!!!!!!!!
YAY THIS IS GOING TO BE AWESOME
Can freshman take whatever classes they want or is CMU strict on prerequisites?
@jrexmo We work with you to find appropriate classes. Don't worry, you'll be taking challenging and stimulating courses from day one!
CS is theory, applications (AI, graphics, databases), hardware, robotics, machine learning, math, programming, lots of things.
wait lol which IMO member
what subject does carnegie mellon specialize in?
Carnegie Mellon specializes in a ton of areas! That's one of the unique things about CMU which makes it awesome - not only do we have the #1 computer science school in the country arguably, but we also have an awesome drama/music program, not to mention that our math department is getting stronger by the year.
I'm considering taking 15112 in the spring. What can I expect?
Lot's of work! Dave Kosbie is a good friend of mine, and he even makes me do homeworks (and I'm not even in his class!)
What are the opportunities for undergraduate research?
@MadHatter: There are tons of opportunities for undergrad research. Proof is by the Pigeonhole Principle (sorry, I'm a combinatorialist). You see, our students are so employable that many many of them end up getting well-paying software/tech internships. Then, there are way more professors than students looking for research internships during the summer. It's a great opportunity to work directly with a professor. :)
@szhang incoming class size for CS is ~140
@MadHatter: In general, many great universities have nice opportunities for research, and I'd recommend that you visit to ask them how their opportunities look.
What is the Putnam team and Putnam training like?
@Lillianz: The Putnam is an excuse to run a class entirely devoted to math problem solving.
What is your favorite part of CMU?
The awesome people and the wonky, hard-core friends of mine that are all working together!
As a junior considering applying to CMU, I won’t have the 4 years of English courses listed in the course requirements. Will that be an issue? In addition, how will my application be viewed with respect to senior applications?
@Jacksu1111 we have an Early Admission process for hs juniors. Typically these students have a diploma after the end of junior yr/meet their school's graduation requirements. Keep in mind you must be at least 16 to live on campus
We are a team, and I love working with the students, faculty and staff!
@Lillianz: We have about 200 students a year involved in the Putnam, and although there is some competition at the end of it where CMU students do *really* well (http://www.math.cmu.edu/~ploh/2014-putnam-top500.pdf), that isn't the point. The point is to learn math problem solving skills.
How far does doing the USAMO and JMO serve in showing math experience?
USAMO and JMO experience is not at all even necessary in order to do well at CMU. We have individuals of all skill levels here - many people who have no math context experience at all thrive here. The experience is simply what you make of it
Do they give out scholarships ?
What are some unique opportunities that SCS offers that other schools can't?
@zhangd We have 7 departments in SCS (CS, Robotics, Machine Learning, HCI, Language TEchnologies, Institute for Software Research, and Comp Bio). Over 225 faculty and 600 really sharp undergrads. Hard to think of a better place to do CS!
@RQiu7 You can declare and change as you like, many people change all the way to their senior year (although I don't recommend it)
when is the latest you can declare a major?
I was looking at your website and I saw that you have multiple colleges. Do you have to apply to a specific college or can you apply to the university as a whole?
@gwena You apply to the college that houses your intended major (MCS for Math, SCS for CS). You can apply to up to 3, but first choice is important
What, in your opinion, is the most unique club or activity at Carnegie Mellon?
@madhatter synchronized walking club
Yes we award scholarship to those who are admitted and submit their CSS profile and FAFSA form. It is based on financial need and merit of the applicant
do you superscore act?
Are there lots of opportunities for work/internships in Pittsburgh? (tech companies)
@jrexmo: There are more and more startups coming out of the CMU community. We just had an event last week on the startup scene (http://www.cmu.edu/cie/launch-cmu/). It's actually a nice place to build a new enterprise, because rent is low. Also, there's an enormous amount of talent. I see my classes hired at top companies every year. They have the talent to build the local ecosystem.
We do not superscore ACT
What level math is needed for CMU?
We do superscore the CURRENT SAT
HIGH. Very HIGH!
What is the most important factor that CMU looks for when looking at applicants?
For Canadian students, is need-blind or need aware at CMU? Thanks
@matthias12345 Evidence of intellectual horsepower and passion! We look for things that can't easily be measured by the SAT...
We are need-blind for all applicants
is it hard to get into CMU?
@ksun: It is hard to get in if you forget your room key. Then you need to call John Berman.
Do test scores (SAT/ACT) or GPA matter mroe?
Both are important
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oh god that was funny
Who is John Berman?
That club sounds amazing.
@rrusczyk Welcome.... Hope to see u at MC nationals
@oiler8: John Berman was the Deputy Team Leader of the USA IMO Team this year.
MOP joke.
We practice a holistic review process, meaning we look for academic strength, extra curricular involvement, essays, etc.
@oiler8: I was referring to the fact that ksun was at MOP (which was at CMU this year), and that you had to find John Berman if you were locked out.
sadly I didn't make mop
ksun
@mssmath: That's completely fine. There is an enormous number of really strong people who don't ever go to MOP. Actually, many famous mathematicians never did math contests.
is it easy to transfer from math or tepper to scs?
@mohanx Easy to minor, hard to transfer into!
What do you recommend students do or focus on if they want to achieve well in high school and to go to a good college, like CMU?
What is the acceptance rate at CMU?
Our overall acceptance rate last year was about 16%, some programs are more selective than others
@mssmath: I really enjoy working with students who are not necessarily MOP students. Indeed, I think it's much more important to be thoroughly enthusiastic about math (and science/tech), rather than just to have experience with contests.
What percentage of girls are at CMU math and CS program?
100%
@psloh: WOW! You must have been an awesome coach
@psloh: Thank you!
@LoneConqueror focus on your academics but have one or two things that distinguish you either academically or extra-curricularly. Again, we're looking for smart people with interesting abilities. Find your interest and do it well and provide evidence that you can!
CMU is best at...
does cmu have medicine?
So many questions… so little time…
We do have a Health Professions Program! It is for ANY student interested in health related careers. Students get involved after they arrive to campus.
yay
will i be able to compete against jmackey in a pull-up contest?
i know some schools are more focused on "pointy" students, and my impression is that the same is true about CMU. Can you confirm?
@frank Yes!!! Any time, brother! We like to go for excellence in physical, mental and spiritual dimensions here
Po: you somehow manage to balance the four full time jobs of teaching, research, expii, and championing us math education. How can I find time to do everything like you?
@liamuk: The first trick is to multiply.
24x7 = 168.
That's actually a really big number!
You do need to subtract about 56, but you still have 100+.
From there, the rest is optimization.
so much time
If you are doing something that you thoroughly enjoy (i.e., consider more fun than agar.io), then you will be able to create some pretty intense productivity.
Could you explain the admission process for homeschoolers in a bit more depth than is found on the website?
Homeschool applicants are reviewed on an individual basis. You will want to refer to our admission site. We need the outline of your curriculum and a letter from whomever administered the education to the students. Standardized tests are still required.
It also helps to walk *really* fast.
What if you don’t sleep at all
Should I apply to CMU if I am a girl interested in math and science?
@frank YES!!! Yes, yes! We have about 50% women math majors this year. We also have lots of women in CS!
150 acres
If you don't sleep at all, you get more productivity for about 2 days. Then it goes down.
Then you have the full 168!
how large is the campus?
@psloh unfortunately, optimization is the hardest part
what research opportunities for undergrads exist at CMU?
Lots of undergrads do undergrad research. Our faculty like having smart students to work on stuff! Check out the CS faculty research guide...
What makes CMU stand out as a school compared to other similar tech/math schools?
@escher: For me, the wide diversity of majors on campus. There are so many different types of people here, which makes the campus experience quite vibrant. On my dorm floor, there are music majors sided with CS majors and we all get together really well!
What is the most popular major at CMU?
College of Engineering is the largest
Optimization is a pretty difficult thing to do. I actually spend about 3% of my time actively thinking about the optimization so that I can maximally apply the other 97%.
School of Drama and School of Computer Sci are the most selective
AGAR.IO!!!!
What could be more fun than agar.io???
@mathwhiz: math, of course
i cant believe i have that much time sometimes....
Does CMU prefer SAT or ACT?
thank you!
Either one
reading...
I still made USAMO so im happy. Also Psloh nice meeting you again, met you at nyc math team
@matthias12345 I knew like zero math coming in to CMU, and now I'm taking the same classes as IMO medalists. CMU's very good at taking you from 0-60 in 0.5 seconds.
For the extra curricular involvement, are we encouraged to spend energy into one activity or spread our extracurricular interests over a range of activities?
I think it's more important to excel at a one or two extracurriculars rather than do lots of things in a shallow way...
Does CMU prefer the current or new SAT?
Either one. For juniors and younger you will most likely take the new SAT
@mathwhiz16 Then that means you are a college student.
also, my question above was posted but didn't go answered ... "i know some schools are more focused on "pointy" students, and my impression is that the same is true about CMU. Can you confirm?"
Psloh, i remember meeting you at Nationals Mathcounts. I felt special
@jh235 I think we have a good balance between pointy and round...
when will the tutoring start?
We have an exceptional Academic Development Office. Earliest you can go there is second week of classes for one on one tutoring, small study groups, and review sessions.
Math!
@michael :) Not quite… because Candy Crush is more fun.
Is there really 100% girls at math and CS program?
AP or IB?
does CMU have a physics program?
Do you play agar.io?
@yayups YES
oiler8: No, but I think agar.io is genius. I really respect the designer, who was able to think of a way to make something amazingly addictive with super-intuitive gameplay rules.
@adik7: Of course! In fact, the assistant department head/undergraduate advisor of the Physics Department, Kunal Ghosh, is quite a character and an awesome guy
How is the physics and biology department ranked in terms of the US or world?
Candy Crush? Nah. Math. Is. Way. Better.
nah.... reading tops it all off 4 me :p
Both are great! Couldn't tell you a world ranking but we offer some very interdisciplinary programs such as Computation Bio that really make us stand out. Great research opps in both areas!
If I do a lot of extracurriculars not because I want to spread out but because I have genuine interest in all of them, is that a disdvantage if I might not have pursued one specific one greatly in depth?
No - no disadvantage to a lot of extracurriculars, but leading/focusing in a few is still important...
Do you superscore SAT?
YES
Not ACT
What is your police on SAT IIs?
We require 2 SAT Subject tests for all academic colleges. See admission site for specifics.
What are the most popular major at CMU?
computational fianance, would you reccomend the school of CS or Math for undergrad?
@mssmath Either!! They just want smart, motivated people!
@po-shen Are you ever considering visiting another ARML location (specifically Iowa)? ;)
@chezbgone2: I might! The issue is that I typically need to be out in DC right after ARML, and so I go to ARML with the Western PA team (which is coached by a CMU Math Ph.D. student), and go out of ARML with either the TJ or NY teams. So, PA ARML is my 24-hour layover.
you said there was an interdisciplinary program for computational biology, is there also one for bioinformatics or is that included in the comp bio program?
Comp Bio is one of the departments in SCS and houses the Comp Bio undergrad program. BioInformatics is part of that program...
@chezbgone2: If the schedule changes in a future year, I might be able to visit another site!
Do you take transfer credits
This is on a case by case basis and is reviewed by faculty. We need course descriptions and course title and grade. You complete this after you are admitted.
Is the name of that PhD student Misha Lavrov by any chance?
What are some of your guys' favorite courses?
@jrexmo: 15-251 ("Great Theoretical Ideas in Computer Science") and 21-242 ("Matrix Theory") are my two favorite courses so far. The former because it's hard (or maybe that's just because combo is hard, idk), the latter because we have some really interesting conversations in class
@Wiggle: Yes!
Does CMU prefer well-rounded applicants or specialized applicants?
We like to see strengths in the following areas: academics, test scores, extracurricular involvement, essays, demonstrated interest. It is a holistic review process.
Wait Misha is my TA for Matrix Theorey (21-242) and he's such a boss
*Theory
What is the acceptance rate at SCS?
Last year, approx. 5%
im still in 8th grade, so are there any classes you guys would recommend me to take?
What is there for people who want to go into education (particularly for high school)?
@jrexmo Putnam seminar is always a favorite
High schools need domain experts who are good teachers, especially in CS. We have a number of TA opportunities for our undergrads and quite a few have gone on to teach either at the secondary or post-secondary levels...
do u offer aid for ed?
Yes, we offer financial aid to both ED and RD admitted students who apply for aid.
Are there any interesting CMU traditions?
posting to the fence, buggy, carnival, kiltie band
If we take rigorous post-AP courses at our school (such as AI, parallel computing, complex analysis, etc.) will CMU accept the classes or will we have to redo them?
@droid They are a great experience, but we will have you take complex analysis here with our folks.
By the way, if we don't answer your question after a long period of time, feel free to ask again! We're getting swamped with questions, and sometimes it's hard to keep up.
Can you transfer between the colleges if you are unhappy with your major?
Depends on how well you do in CMU courses, what courses you took at CMU and the space available in the college you are transferring into. It is not encouraged. Pick CMU if you will be happy in your enrolled program for 4 years.
If you want to major in EECS then should you apply to the College of Engineering or CS?
EE is part of the ECE major, and there are a few CS courses required for ECE as well. If you want CS, apply CS; if you want EE, apply ECE/CIT
Are there entrepreneurial opportunities at CMU?
Carnegie is my first choice, but I was unable to interview during the summer... will the interview be a major factor?
@youngbood4ever: Yes! There is a center which helps people with entrepreneurship ideas. I also help to talk to people who have ideas. After starting expii.com, I got some experience the hard way. It's been an extremely interesting learning experience going through the whole process of building a startup from the ground. If you are interested in entrepreneurship, with a background in math/CS, and you come here, I'd be very happy to personally help you out.
@MSU Drop Po and I an email, let's get you to campus and you interview then!
@Po consider leaving ARML with the CT team
How much math experience (contest/college/research) would be optimal if we were to attend CMU?
For CS, we love to see high level math experience. BC calc and beyond, AIME, AMC, math team, etc.
@msu347 - interviews are helpful but not mandatory. You can also see if an alum can interview where you live...
@jrexmo Putnam is the best class. Of all the classes that @michael.liang is registered for, it's the only one he regularly attends
do you offer aids during early admission?
Yes
Apply through the FAFSA and CSS profile
@pi37: I try not to do the same thing too many times, so perhaps I will leave with another team in the future
@liamuk Almost true. I also go to Math Studies Algebra.
how many design majors are there at CMU?
What advantages is there in applying early to CMU?
about 30-40 design students enroll per year as freshmen who are pursuing the BDes program
:happy:
posting to fence? kiltie band?
@hoo013 CMU traditions; google is your friend...
Can students re-apply to different schools via RD once they are rejected ED?
Yes, but you cannot re-apply to the program you were rejected from. You can apply to 2 more programs.
Is Ray Li fat?
Do you accept dual enrollment credits or do we have to retake those classes too?
@alcumus We *can* accept them if you don't use them for HS requirements, and we accept *some*, but not all.
@frank_2016 I applied to CMU early and I got in. I'm not sure if I would have if I hadn't...
@frank_2016 Ray Li is not fat.
Does CMU recommend taking certain SAT Subject Tests?
Yes, we are specific based on the college/school you are applying to. Please check out admission site.
What are dorms like? How many people are in each dorm room?
Can international students enroll in graduate programs if they haven't been attending undergraduate studies in the U.S., and if they can, what are the opportunities for financial aid?
Are there currently any bagpipe majors at CMU?
@andrewkwon I believe that the set is non-empty!
@Gwena: the dorms are very different in nature, so it's hard to give a specific answer to this, but in general most dorms are doubles (some are triples - or at least that's what happened this year due to overflow) and there's enough room to live comfortably.
@danepale International students can (and do) enroll in our graduate programs. PhD programs are fully funded; MS not...
Should we do a little bit of self learning? My school's curriculum is getting boring and useless.
@eveningstarandlion: I think that self learning is really important. Actually, when I was in college and grad school, I was still spending lots of time self-learning. Today, I don't have any teachers, and so I spend all my time self-learning. Ultimately, you will need to pick up this skill, and so it is a great idea to start early. You are SUPER lucky to have so many free online resources now, so it's even easier!
how do you view high school research in the application process?
Yes, you can submit an abstract through a maker portfolio on the Common App
hi poshen
It is nice to see but not required
Do you like math.stackexchange?
I am more of a stack overflow person myself...
how is tapper school of management
It is "Tepper" and it's a great school! Very quantitative, everyone in the program takes multivariable calc. Many find jobs in consulting and finance. IBM and Deliotte are major employers.
If we are juniors now you will still accept the old SAT right?
Yes, new or old
@eveningstarandlion: Also, self-learning is tons of fun. You get to explore things at your own pace, and go into topics that are way outside high school curricula. For example, I decided to figure out how to write computer games. http://www.math.cmu.edu/~ploh/em-dosbox/aa4.html
favorite memory from CMU?
@escher123 Wearing my kilt to class!
stackoverflow ftw lol
do you guys have BS+Ms program in CS or math or engineering?
When should we start applying?
@mohan We have a masters honors program that you can complete along with your BS in 4 years, if accepted!
Senior yr... Nov. 1 is ED deadline, Jan. 1 is RD deadline
@AndrewKwon97 I think there's one in my class
@Wiggle Wam: he publish with Mikhail Lavrov... I wonder why.
@Liopleurodon I believe the most popular major is ECE. The engineering school is definitely the biggest.
@escher123 Steam tunnels!
@escher123 steam tunnels
@mjs-cmu Stack overflow? Sweet! What languages do you program?
I have programmed in way too many languages, going back to FORTRAN and LISP. Now mostly Python and Java...
Are SAT subject tests important?
It is part of our holistic review process. Two are required for majority of programs. Check our admission site for requirements.
Do you get admitted to a college or do you have to declare a specific major within that college?
@youngblood You get into a college, and declare your major later!
A whole bunch of 2400's were not offered admission this year...
I took math 2 subject test in freshmen year. does it stil count when I apply next year?
Does admission care about SAT scores of 2300+? In general how are SAT scores used?
@mohan: Yes - I used my Math 2 subject test score when I applied to CMU
@Psloh How does the difficulty and rigor of Maxtrix Theory, Vector Analysis, and Mathematical Studies compare to Caltech math classes?
@plazz: I try to be professional when speaking about other universities, in the sense that I try not to say negative things about others even if true.
What are ED and RD?
@newluv Early and regular decision, repectively!
what is the average ACT score at CMU
@plazz: However, I am very happy to say that I think that those core Freshman+Sophomore classes that you have listed are absolutely rock solid.
Depends on the college/school you are considering. CS last year was 35 ACT avg for admitted students
Do you prefer SAT or ACT
Why is ACT not superscore? Just curious
Some sections overlap with material so it is not meant to be super scored
In fact, it was a design principle to make sure that they would be at the level necessary to challenge the top students. Our top students are pretty strong. There are some lists of rankings out there which show how our top students compare to Caltech's, or others.
either test, no preference
What is superscore-ing?
Taking the highest area of each time you took the SAT to make a new total score
Are there any international undergraduates which are IMO/IOI medallists at CMU?
And so, I'm very happy to say that I would - with full confidence - tell anyone that they'd be well-served in those CMU courses, which are taught by hand-picked instructors.
@danepale: Yes, actually. I know of quite a few people who either were IMO medalists or otherwise performed very highly on their respective countrys' math olympiads.
So CMU offers early decision not early action?
@gwena Yes - ED and RD, no Early Action...
@danepale there are certainly IOI medallists here as well
Just curious, but what is the most represented state in terms of where students come from?
@youngblood Hawaii. Definitely the Aloha State!
Since at CMU international students and non-U.S. citizens are not eligible for financial aid and payment plans, then are we eligible for scholarships?
No financial aid, including scholarships, current exists for international students
The number of SAT and ACT questions being asked indicates to me that there is something fundamentally broken about how these standardized tests work...
@mackey - NFW, probably NY...
@danepale Alyazeed Basyoni from Saudi Arabia
GO NY!
How is the food quality there?
@danepale Alyazeed Basyoni is in the sophomore class
So good! I've eaten everything from crepes to sushi on campus. 30+ different eateries on campus
@danepale he's sitting across from me
Sorry MJS and Youngblood, I thought that you said "The most respected state"
There are $11^2$ users in this room right now.
Do the volunteer hours matters for admission?
@newluvmath Volunteering is a good plus
how many credits minimum to get in?
We look for you to meet your high school's grad requirements. Particularly for CS and Engineering we like advanced STEM courses.
@raxu very very very hit or miss
@raxu: it's worth noting that the food system here at CMU is very different than it is at other schools, in the sense that we have no dining halls. Instead, there are various eatery-ish places on campus (some in the University Center, some in the academic buildings). The amount of variety here in that regard is quite nice
What classes/tests should I take in high school to have a higher chance of getting into CMU?
Most advanced courses are always a plus...AP/IB HL/dual enrollment, whatever is available at your school. Standardized tests are required and listed on our admission site.
@raxu I would recommend getting a small meal plan. The food definitely gets old really fast.
Red 9 FTW
What is the environment like near Carnegie Mellon?
@youngblood no beaches, Pitt is a mile west, but there is a decent baseball team, and a pretty good football team (so I'm told). It's got a lot of small-town about it... Kind of grows on you...
How to credits transfer?
@mssmath You submit credit request forms and we determine whether the course in question is equivalent to our version. We are reasonable, because we want to put you into challenging, but not impossible, classes!
what should I do if I experience depression and screw up my grades last year?
You can note any special circumstances in your additional comments section of the Common Application.
does cmu have sports programs
How much free time would one have in general? How is the work load?
@chezbgone2: The amount of free time in all top tech universities (CMU, Caltech, MIT, the like) is actually up to you. You are free to choose to take fewer courses. I actually recommend that to the people I work with. If you take less, you actually can learn more deeply. And, you have time to explore non-academic extra-curriculars which will help you long-term.
Would there be "breaktime?" I know at IMSA, every Wednesday you take a day off from the overload of homework and everything, so is there like a break day?
@eveningstarandlion Every day there is a moratorium on classes from 4:30 - 6:30; no days off though, for students or faculty until mid-sem break or winter break...
Alcumus!!!
@mohanxue612 What ifs… So many possibilities…
what is the average weighted gpa of people accepted into CMU
We unweight ALL GPA's...don't worry if your school has a different grading model, we saw transcripts from 40+ countries last yr; we have a way of calculating it. Avg uw GPA for admitted CS was 3.93 last yr, 3.86 for Mellon College of Sci
thanks!
How big is the CMU campus?
How big is the cmu campus
Do you recommend any specific high school courses?
If considering engineering, CS or Mellon College of Sci at CMU, then definitely take advanced level STEM courses...AP physics C, BC calc, AP chem, etc. (or HL's at IB schools, or dual enrollment)
It takes approximately 3 minutes to run across from end-to-end.
What's Red 9?
@MS2002: It's one of the meal plans we have on campus. Different meal plans have different ratios of fixed blocks to flex dollars.
(Which is really nice because you can get to class in a hurry.)
do most students have calc bc/equivalent completed in entry?
@eveningstarandlion Breaktime is Saturday and Sunday for most students.
@rmehtany Many CS admits have BC calc (gets you out of Calc I/II).
What is the tastiest thing you’ve eaten on campus?
@mathwhiz16: The crepes in the University Center are SO GOOD omg
@eveningstarandlion: Also, breaktime includes 4:30 - 6:30pm every weekday. That is so that people can spend time on sports, like the Putnam.
what is a good gpa to strive for in order to get into CS
the highest you can achieve - we have no minimum...
What classes/tests/math competitions should I take in high school to increase my chance of getting into CMU?
HL Math and BC Calc is so boring and slow! What should I do?
Advanced STEM courses for the CS, engineering and mellon college of sic programs. Standardized tests are required, see admission site. AMC and AIME are great for math applicants and CS applicants.
@SkyFox163: You should try to reform the entire system, single-handedly!
do you have a gym on campus?how is it?
@mohan Yes, a couple. They are very good, actually!!
what is the average weighted gpa of someone accepted into CS
3.93
@SkyFox163: ... that would be the ideal action, which some of us are working on.
If math was a sport, I would be the most athletic person in my school…
@mathwhiz16: Awesome!!!
lol
lol
I know that volunteering hours is a huge part in many students' curriculis vitis, how much does CMU value that?
Double lol
It is one area of extra curricular involvement we like to see...we also like to see leadership and out of class recognition
@mathwhiz1 Buy chipotle from off campus, bring it on campus, and eat it.
Do can internationals get scholarships?
@michael.liang: and they're building a Chipotle across the street now!
No
When do you have to declare your major by?
just saying, you guys are doing a lot better job at getting to the questions than the MITer's
Since you apply to the college that houses your major, you commit in April of your freshman year. About 10% will change majors, though...
@Rmehtany: Thanks! We type fast.
is CMU need-blind?
Yes
What is the weirdest experience you have had at CMU?
if math was food, i'd be very fat
@oiler8 Having the President of the University come to my office to talk with Po and me about life, in general
(It helps to use a mechanical keyboard.)
@mathwhiz16 Math is sport.
That would be a common theme for many of us if math was a sport
Will math contests be useful?
Yes.
@kjmathew19 you are
Well... I need to go now. Nice talking with you!
@smuthanna: Math Contests
@oiler: We'll miss you!
thanks!
Bye!
@michael.liang Life is sport. Therefore everything is sport. Therefore everyone is super athletic.
@smuthanna: I think that Math contests will help you think more deeply and more quickly about many things. Someday, you'll apply those skills to non-math activities.
Can you double major or switch majors?
@youngblood YES. Many people double major.
do you have any foreign language programs
@ssamtani yes, Chinese, Japanese, German, French, Arabic (and others)
The winner of last year's PennApps Hackathon just walked into our office here.
We have no minimums for testing. Last year the middle 50% range SAT for admitted students into CS was 730-800CR, 790-800M, 740-800W, for Mellon college of Sci it was 680-760CR, 740-800M, 690-780W
Any suggestion on mimnimum SAT score required?
I heard that making it to AIME iis more impressive than geting 2400 on the SAT. Is that true?
What is CM's athletic recruitment like?
@Guest Not as effective as our math and cs major recruitment, but not bad ;)
I find the AIME pretty impressive. I don't run admissions though.
can we not submit full research papers?
We prefer just the abstract
However, I also find a perfect SAT impressive too.
can you major CS and math?
Yes - the CS program requires a minor, so lots of CS students minor/double in Math and same the other way...
Who are some of CMU's biggest rivals ?
@jrexmo: A certain three letter acronym in Boston that shall not be named....
Is early action restrictive?
We do not offer Early Action, only ED and RD. ED is binding.
How do you feel about taking college courses at nearby universities during high school?
Ultimately, I think that any way of seriously distinguishing yourself is impressive. For example, if you can eat 62 hot dogs in 10 minutes, I'd be very impressed.
@chezbgone2 they better be good!!!
MIT
MIT
How do ED and RD acceptance percentages differ?
Percentage for ED goes up; however, academic quality of the applicants (comparing ED to RD admits) is about the same.
@mssmath I'm doing that!
@mssmath You need to get A's and B's in introductory CS classes, and do about half of the major before being considered.
if a math major how can you major in CS?
You can minor or double major if interested...
Is early decision application binding?
Yes
is USAMTS useful?
Do you prefer SAT to ACT when admitting more people in?
Either one
@hj: Yes! It's a great opportunity to have practice working on proofs.
(USAMTS must be useful)
what is the avg SAT score for CS and Engineering?
Above 700 in each area is competitive. We have not minimums for test scores though.
@hj: In general, whenever someone runs a free math contest, you should take advantage of the opportunity. Many of these things are done by volunteers or non-profits, sponsored by charitable donations.
how important is gpa in the admissions process
It is an important aspect to academics but we practice a holistic review (aka we review all aspects of an applicant before making a decision)
Is an interview required?
No, 20% of applicants do an interview
What non-math and science classes are good for admissions? Like, what level of a foreign language, how much history, etc.
Is a high school diploma required for admission?
@knin2820 each program has various requirements for history, etc. no one right answer here...
What does that mean?
The ratios of fixed blocks to flex dollars part.
what are some free math contests?
@SkyFox163: I include "not so expensive" along with Free. In that sense, basically every math contest (AMC, university-run math contests, online math contests, etc.) are all great options!
For example, I typically frequent contests run by Berkeley, Harvard-MIT, Princeton, and I'll also be at CMU's contest next spring.
Go ELMO and OMO and NIMO!
would taking college courses in high school(Multivarible Calculus,Linear algebra,CSIII) be transferred into college credit?
@mohan If you don't use them for HS requirements, then we can consider them, but we have 4 different versions of multivariable calc, 4 different versions of matrix/linear algebra, and we would prefer that you take them here. That said, they are good practice.
@mathwhiz: Blocks are liked fixed meals with fixed dollar amounts depending on the time of day. Flex dollars are essentially imaginary currencies that you can use at any time of day.
what if I mess up my sophomore year grades because I was experiencing depression?
How do you treat an international applicant who is a US citizen - will he be considered a domestic applicant? In what pool will his application be loooked at
US citizens are domestic not international. It's based on citizenship not where you reside.
Do you guys prefer well rounded students, or students with a "spike"
@Guest: I like students who are so spiky all over that they're round.
Hello fellow mathletes!
@mssmath: Speaking of which, there's a NIMO competition this Friday that everyone should go to!
Does being a National Merit (Semi)finalist strongly affect your chances to get into the college?
For some schools it might, at CMU you can list it as an achievement and we will take it into account. it is not a major factor though.
What are some projects in the robotics department that undergrads can take part of?
@Guest: More seriously, I think it's important to maintain a good baseline level on many skills, while pushing hard on extraordinary areas.
@zhangd I had a student last year work on the vision system for a lunar rover - there are *lots* of cool robotics projects that undergrads get involved with. CMU alums have contributed to the Mars rover as well!
@Guest: for example, have you seen a Koosh ball before? Or does that reference date me?
Is Carnegie Mellon decent at the putnam?
@Eugenis: NO.
@Eugenis: Carnegie Mellon is awesome at the Putnam.
A well-rounded class of pointy/spiky students? That's what I heard colleges like these like.
@mathguy We also appreciate smooth manifolds without boundaries and non-orientable students ;)
Can you list the things you look for from highest to lowest weight what accepting a student: GPA, ACT/SAT, Community service, Extra-curricular, achievements(academic or non academic), overall personality/quarks.
We want strength in all the areas listed. We are looking for the best! This is part of our holistic review process.
@Eugenis: But as math folks, we like to reference hard statistics, like this one:
what is a good GPA to strive for in order to get into CS
4.0
Wow does that mean like continuous everywhere but differentiable nowhere? @poshen
@Eugenis We are #2.
@jrexmo: We're even more interesting than those types of functions - in a good way!
Hey, as they say, first is the worst, second is the best!
what is Dual enrollment?
As a math-focused student, I would say that my English/History abilities are slightly sub-par. Should I continue to work on math/cs or would it be best for me to attempt to do better in English and history?
Can you describe CMU in 1 word?
@Liopleurodon yes
Some high schools allow you to take college courses in your local area while in high school
Amazingly enough, being able to communicate is really important, both technically and non-technically. So work on that English...
how do you "unweight" gpa?
We have our ways...
@Eugenis: As you can see, the number of CMU students in the top 500 last year was larger than the sum of the next two schools' numbers...
What types of students does the school attract? Math? Science? English?
@Eugenis really good ones who want to work with other really good ones...
What is this putnam thing everyone keeps talking about?
@jprosk: The Putnam is the university-level analogue of the Math Olympiads.
Jmackey, you sound like my art teacher............
@Lio Honestly, I think that math and art are really close in some metric.
What are the demographics for CMU?
This year's fr class...31% Asian American, 20% international, 16% African American/Hispanic/Native American...almost all states represented and 40+ countries!
@jprosk: However, at CMU we don't approach the Putnam like a math contest (in the way a high school math team approaches their competitions). Instead, I use it as an excuse to talk about interesting math problems.
Do achievements in state math contests influence one's application much?
Always great to see!
For example, today we were talking about the convergence/divergence of:
$\sum_{n=2}^\infty \frac{1}{n \log n}$
vs
$\sum_{n=2}^\infty \frac{1}{n (\log n)^2}$
how much does being valecdoctrian help?
We definitely like to see high class rank...most admitted students are in top 10% of their class.
We then moved on to compare:
What departments do you feel CMU excels in?
$\sum_{n=100}^\infty \frac{1}{n \log n \log \log n}$
vs
CS is routinely ranked #1 (tied with a couple other schools); Math is outstanding; Engineering is top ten, our College of Fine Arts is world class (lots of alums from Drama in LA and on Broadway). So quite a few!
What is the tastiest thing you’ve eaten on campus?
Chocolate and banana crepe!
$\sum_{n=100}^\infty \frac{1}{n \log n (\log \log n)^2}$.
These are not math contest problems, but they were inspired by the topic of "Convergence" on the Putnam.
can you post LaTeX in here?
How many people came from Colorado in this year's freshman class?
Can you tell me what special requirements are there for physics applicants?
@szhang I don't know, but there is a young man from Colorado by the name of Liam Mazurowski who is going to win prizes in math.
High STEM prep in high school is a great plus, also strong scores in math/sci areas of standardized tests
Proof by picture: $\LaTeX$
is there chinese food?
what was the highest weighted GPA at CMU
For an IB school - what is the average gpa you admit into science or CS?
@kjmathew19 Yes - of a sort, on campus and a lot of good places off...
Around 6-7
The first two don;t converge
Have any homeschooled students been admitted to CMU?
The first converges, second doesn't.
@wiggleWam Yes, we have admitted home-schooled students every year...
wolfram aplha i suppose
@yayups: There are better ways, and that's what we learned today in class.
are the permanent residents considered the citizens?Do we still need to take language tests even if I stayed in USA over 4 years?
@mohanxue612 You need to take TOEFL is English is not your native language
Is it integral test? They all work really well in these cases.
Also integral test is cool
how difficult is it to transfer?
are there any famous alumni from CMU?
For a transfer applicant (someone who already attended college elsewhere), the process is just as selective as high school applicants. To transfer from one program to another (within CMU), is based on CMU grades, courses taken and space in the program you're transferring into
@kjmathew Yes. David Patrick
cool
Also, John Nash.
John Nash
David Patrick is author of some aops books right?
how do you account for volutneering hours. How does it factor in
We see it on your common app should you list it. Great to see but everyone has NHS, so please go beyond that.
really? NASH!
YES!
rip nash
Will applying to MCS (for math) as a first choice and SCS as a second choice hurt my chances of getting into MCS as opposed to only applying to MCS?
Not necessarily...make sure in your CMU supplement essay you give compelling reasons for both programs!
... Just as an early warning: we had a huge number of questions, but we're going to have to close down in about 5 minutes.
About Ed... Can I apply to ED and EA, or does ED restrict everything else
We do not offer Early Action
If you have any last questions (or ones that we didn't answer yet), please fire them off before we close.
Does leadership play a role in admission factor such as founder/president of a club, student organization executive president, team captain, etc.?
Do you have to write an essay?
Yes, it's the best ;)
do you look at weighted or unweighted gpa
UW
@TEAMUSA: I don't manage admissions, but I'll add my two cents about how important leadership is in general. I think that if you are really strong yourself, that's great! And you can then achieve the output of a maximum of 168 hours of your own productivity per week. However, if you are also able to inspire 1000 people to work together on a common cause, the multiplier effect overtakes the individual.
About Ed... Can I apply to ED and EA, or does ED restrict everything else (EDIT: EA TO OTHER SCHOOLS)
If you apply ED to CMU and we accept you, you rescind your apps elsewhere...
Does coming from a competitive school serve as a disadvantage as class rank plays a role?
No, great school equals great academic opportunities. Class rank is one of MANY academic indicators we use.
@TEAMUSA: I personally think that the most effective way to lead is to lead the charge personally, working on all of the challenges alongside others, as opposed to just telling others what to do. So, it's then important to simultaneously have mad skills yourself, as well as great leadership skills to multiply your output.
Thanks psloh for answering my questions BTW!
Hmmm, not sure, that's a tough one...largest enrolling states this year were 1. CA, 2. NY, 3. PA
do they take into account that AP classes may have lower gpa's?
What is the average weekly coursework load for CMU undergrads?
AP/IB and other similar courses are generally a plus...
How many people from Indiana are in this year's freshman class?
There are $5^3$ people in this room now!
What is NHS?
how does other extracurricular activities such as all state band comparing to math activities help u the chance of getting into mcs or scs?
Nat'l Honors Society
@Royalreter: the coursework here is pretty hard, but it's not impossibly hard to manage. In particular, I have a lot of time to have fun, especially with friends on my floor.
So if i apply in the fall to CMU can I also apply to other schools?
Yes, but you are only suppose to apply to one school ED (Early Decision).
Being a leader of Student Government without pay is counted as volunterring and/or school community work?
Yup
@mohanxue: I think that a breadth of experience is important. For example, when I was in high school, I used to not understand why athletics were important. I thought it would be enough just to work on building up your mind. But today, I find myself running all over campus, and trying to get from Point A to Point B as rapidly as possible, in order to achieve everything I'm trying to do!
Is CMU a good school?
@yaredboy: NO.
@yaredboy: CMU is a great school.
really? cause im thinkin about jhu or cmu
My high school is more IB oriented than AP. Is there any disadvantages for me compared to AP schools?
Also, how important is it to take (and do well in) AP Social Studies courses. A lot of these courses require busywork that doesn't actually contribute to learning.
How many classes are you taking this term dj?
CMU > JHU
All courses are important to show overall academic strength. STEM curriculum/performance in high school is a bit more important for our CS, engineering, Mellon College of Sci programs. But we want great overall students!
CMU!
@eugenis No - IB/Ap treated similarly
@jrexmo: 4 + 2/2 - Interpretation and Argument, Modern Biology, Matrix Theory, Great Theoretical Ideas in Computer Science (basically math with CS applications), Eureka! First Year Seminar, and Putnam Seminar.
@yaredboy: I strongly encourage to you to visit both places.
@yaredboy: then you can make a fully informed decision.
CIU is great!!!!
How would you determine the class rank?
Where do most people end up after undergrad at CMU (Industry, Gradschool...)?
CMU, CIU!!!!!!!!!!
Some schools don't rank, so we don't have a rank for those students.
last year, 20% went to grad school; 80% to industry from CS undergrad class
do people start businesses after going to CMU?
Yes - and then hire other CMU people!
is the cmu really nerdy as the stereotype
@mohan: Sure, it's nerdy, but in the sense that people pride themselves on their nerdiness. I find it very enjoyable to be around many different types of people on campus - dorm hall mates, Putnam people, you name it. We aren't CMU for nothing!
whats the cost for cmu?
last year approx \$66K...keep in mind 50% of students receive financial aid, avg financial aid award was \$36K and avg starting salary for CMU graduate last year was $78K...you get great jobs, and learn the meaning to life ;)
@yaredboy: Again, I try to remain professional in not definitively comparing other schools. I think that the evidence would speak for itself in most cases. Make sure that when you visit a school, you talk to professors.
How is the Putnam training at CMU? I heard they aren't as good as other places, which have USA IMO coaches training the competitors...
50 percent of students receive aid, 36,000 was avg award package
i might get a scholarship
You could if you submit your Common App, FAFSA and CSS Profile
@Eugenis: I second your suggestion to attend Putnam classes taught by professional coaches.
@Eugenis We have THE US IMO coach training the Putnam competitors.
What if we have some classes that purposefully ruin our gpa's, but the rest i have great gpa
Not everyone who is admitted is perfect! We are all human...that's okay!
... wow, that was an amazing evening.
We had well over 100 people in the room for most of it.
We really enjoyed talking to all of you, and look forward to seeing many of you here!
Thanks Everone !! that was a good Session
where is CMU?
Hawaii ;) Pittsburgh, actually
Thanks everyone!
Thanks!
Bye!
Awwwww... Is it over
Thanks, was a pleasure!
@Liop: never over - just switch to real life and visit us in real life!
Thank you all,and the chatting is significantly helpful!!!
Thank You so much for this informative and useful session
Thank You!
Thanks!
Bye!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks guys!
Thanks!
XD
Had a lot of fun and found out about CMU thanks guys!!!
Shoutout to djmathman for representing Hamerschlag House!
thanks
Thanks!
Bye
Thanks for the information. Are there programs for those interested in pursuing medical sciences?
If you have any questions about CMU after this math jam, feel free to visit us in real life or PM us afterward We'll be happy to answer them!
Where do you guys live so I can visit you?
We live in CMU
Pittsburgh, PA.
Hope to see you all here at some point!
10-4, out!
Thanks again to all our guests from CMU for spending time with us tonight to tell us all about Carnegie Mellon!
im ur biggest fan!!!!
thanks!
bye!!
If you joined us late (or even if you didn't), a complete transcript of the discussion will be available shortly on our Math Jam Transcripts page at: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/school/mathjams-transcripts
bye!
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