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k a July Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jwelsh   0
Jul 1, 2025
We are halfway through summer, so be sure to carve out some time to keep your skills sharp and explore challenging topics at AoPS Online and our AoPS Academies (including the Virtual Campus)!

[list][*]Over 60 summer classes are starting at the Virtual Campus on July 7th - check out the math and language arts options for middle through high school levels.
[*]At AoPS Online, we have accelerated sections where you can complete a course in half the time by meeting twice/week instead of once/week, starting on July 8th:
[list][*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics
[*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced
[*]AMC Problem Series[/list]
[*]Plus, AoPS Online has a special seminar July 14 - 17 that is outside the standard fare: Paradoxes and Infinity
[*]We are expanding our in-person AoPS Academy locations - are you looking for a strong community of problem solvers, exemplary instruction, and math and language arts options? Look to see if we have a location near you and enroll in summer camps or academic year classes today! New locations include campuses in California, Georgia, New York, Illinois, and Oregon and more coming soon![/list]

MOP (Math Olympiad Summer Program) just ended and the IMO (International Mathematical Olympiad) is right around the corner! This year’s IMO will be held in Australia, July 10th - 20th. Congratulations to all the MOP students for reaching this incredible level and best of luck to all selected to represent their countries at this year’s IMO! Did you know that, in the last 10 years, 59 USA International Math Olympiad team members have medaled and have taken over 360 AoPS Online courses. Take advantage of our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training (WOOT) courses
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0 replies
jwelsh
Jul 1, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Good Colombian Configurations
PersonPsychopath   36
N 2 minutes ago by fearsum_fyz
Source: 2013 IMO Shortlist C2/2013 IMO #2
A configuration of $4027$ points in the plane is called Colombian if it consists of $2013$ red points and $2014$ blue points, and no three of the points of the configuration are collinear. By drawing some lines, the plane is divided into several regions. An arrangement of lines is good for a Colombian configuration if the following two conditions are satisfied:

i) No line passes through any point of the configuration.

ii) No region contains points of both colors.

Find the least value of $k$ such that for any Colombian configuration of $4027$ points, there is a good arrangement of $k$ lines.

Proposed by Ivan Guo from Australia.
36 replies
PersonPsychopath
Jan 4, 2016
fearsum_fyz
2 minutes ago
Inequalities
EtacticToe   0
18 minutes ago
Source: KTOM Monthly Contest
Let $a,b,c$ be positive real numbers such that $a+\frac{b}{2} = \frac{c}{5}$.
If $M$ is the maximum value of
\[ 3\sqrt[3]{a} + 6 \sqrt[3]{b} - \frac{ c^2}{250}, \]Find the value of $M^2$
0 replies
EtacticToe
18 minutes ago
0 replies
polynomial
danilorj   1
N 26 minutes ago by Mathzeus1024
Let the polynomial $p(x)=x^2+x(k_2+k_1-3)+3-3k_2$. Find a region in the complex plan such that the real part of the roots are negative.
1 reply
danilorj
Jun 26, 2010
Mathzeus1024
26 minutes ago
A geometry problem
MathMaxGreat   4
N 30 minutes ago by Razorrizelim
Source: 2025 Summer NSMO
In $\triangle ABC$, $D$ is on the angle bisector of $\angle BAC$, $ED\perp BC$ and $E$ is on $BC$.
Prove: the radius of the circumcircles of the pedal triangles from $E$ to $\triangle ABD$ and $\triangle ACD$ is equal.
4 replies
MathMaxGreat
4 hours ago
Razorrizelim
30 minutes ago
Cutting square into three congruent rectangles
Silverfalcon   8
N Today at 1:23 AM by NEILDASEAL_12345
A square is cut into three rectangles along two lines parallel to a side, as shown. If the perimeter of each of the three rectangles is 24, then the area of the original square is

IMAGE

$\text{(A)} \ 24 \qquad \text{(B)} \ 36 \qquad \text{(C)} \ 64 \qquad \text{(D)} \ 81 \qquad \text{(E)} \ 96$
8 replies
Silverfalcon
Dec 9, 2005
NEILDASEAL_12345
Today at 1:23 AM
variety of geometry
FrancoGiosefAG   8
N Jun 24, 2025 by vanstraelen
1. In the following grid, the distance separating two consecutive dots (horizontally or vertically) is $1$ cm. Find the length of segment $BE$.

3. In the following figure, $ABCD$ is a parallelogram. $AB = 10$ and $BC = 75$. Furthermore, the distance separating lines $AB$ and $DC$ is $60$. Find the length $PQ$.

9. $ABC$ is an equilateral triangle such thats perimeter is equal to the area of its inscribed circle. Find the possible values for the radius of said circle.

10. In parallelogram $ABCD$, we have that $AE$ is perpendicular to $BC$, $AF$ is perpendicular to $CD$ and $\angle EAF = 45^\circ$. If $AE + AF = 2\sqrt{2}$, find the perimeter of $ABCD$.

13. Point $M$ is on side $BC$ of triangle $ABC$ such that $BM = AC$. $H$ is the foot of the perpendicular descending from $B$ onto $AM$. It is known that $BH = CM$ and $\angle MAC = 30^\circ$. Find the possible values of $\angle ACB$.

18. In $\triangle ABC$, points $D, E$ are taken on sides $BC, AC$, respectively, such that $DE$ is parallel to $AB$. Also $BC = 13$, $AC = 14$, and $AB = 15$. If $\triangle EDC$ and quadrilateral $ABDE$ have the same perimeter, find $BD/DC$.

19. A rectangle is inscribed in $\triangle ABC$ so that its base lies on side $BC$. Furthermore, $BC = 10$ and the height from $A$ to $BC$ measures $8$. Find the maximun value that the area of a rectangle with tese characteristics can reach.

20. In $\triangle ABC$, $M$ and $N$ are the midpoints of sides $BC$ and $AC$, respectively. Consider a point $P$ inside the triangle such that $\angle BAP = \angle ACP = \angle MAC$. Prove that $\angle ANP = \angle AMB$.

22. Diagonals $AC$ and $BD$ of a quadrilateral $ABCD$ intersect at $O$. It is known that diagonal $BD$ is perpendicular to side $AD$, $\angle BAD = \angle BCD = 60^\circ$, $\angle ADC = 135^\circ$. Find the ratio $DO/OB$.
8 replies
FrancoGiosefAG
Jun 11, 2025
vanstraelen
Jun 24, 2025
Find the measure of DF and FB
Darealzolt   4
N Jun 8, 2025 by snowilove
It is given that rectangle \(ABCD\) is inscribed in a circle. Let \(E\) be a point on the line segment \(AD\) such that \(DE=DC=6\), and \(EA=2\). Let the extension of the line segment \(CE\) intersects the circumcircle of \(ABCD\) at point \(F\), hence find the lengths of line segments \(DF\) and \(FB\).
4 replies
Darealzolt
Jun 6, 2025
snowilove
Jun 8, 2025
Area of Polygon
AIME15   58
N Jun 5, 2025 by Yihangzh
The area of polygon $ ABCDEF$, in square units, is

IMAGE

\[ \textbf{(A)}\ 24 \qquad
\textbf{(B)}\ 30 \qquad
\textbf{(C)}\ 46 \qquad
\textbf{(D)}\ 66 \qquad
\textbf{(E)}\ 74
\]
58 replies
AIME15
Jan 12, 2009
Yihangzh
Jun 5, 2025
Clever Combinatorics
Aaronjudgeisgoat   11
N Mar 18, 2025 by jb2015007
How many ways are there to choose 4 vertices out of the vertices of a regular decagon such that the vertices form a rectangle?

hint
11 replies
Aaronjudgeisgoat
Jan 27, 2025
jb2015007
Mar 18, 2025
Rectangles dimensions
Baffledbanna74   4
N Oct 13, 2024 by SomeonecoolLovesMaths
Problem:
4 replies
Baffledbanna74
Oct 12, 2024
SomeonecoolLovesMaths
Oct 13, 2024
Geometry
chickencurry_1   2
N Jul 5, 2024 by ChaitraliKA
The triangle PQR, right angle at Q, has semicircles drawn with its sides as diameters. The sides of the rectangle STUV are tangents to the semicircle and are parallel to PQ or QR, as drawn. If PQ=6 and QR=8 then what is the area of STUV?
IMAGE
2 replies
chickencurry_1
Jul 5, 2024
ChaitraliKA
Jul 5, 2024
Question about a mathcount question
MarcusRashford   18
N May 9, 2024 by smbellanki
Question: What is the maximum number of 3'' x 4'' rectangles that will fit, without overlap, within a 20'' x 20'' square?

Overall, if it asked for a m'' x n'' rectangles that will fit, without overlap within a b'' x c'' rectangle, how would we solve this?

Thank you so much!
18 replies
MarcusRashford
May 3, 2024
smbellanki
May 9, 2024
geometry
joinh99   1
N Mar 28, 2024 by ethanzhang1001
Cho hình chữ nhật ABCD có hai đường chéo AC và BD cắt nhau tại O. Gọi M, N lần lượt là hình chiếu của O trên AB, BC. Chứng minh MN = AC/2
1 reply
joinh99
Mar 28, 2024
ethanzhang1001
Mar 28, 2024
Form a octgon using rectangles
NiltonCesar   1
N Feb 12, 2024 by URcurious2
Consider four rectangles. Two of them have dimensions $2$ and $6$, and the other two have dimensions $4$ and $12$. Assemble an octagon using these rectangles so that the figure has a perimeter of $72$.

In the assembly, the pieces must touch, either fully or partially, their sides, so that the intersection between them is a straight segment. Furthermore, overlapping pieces and forming "holes" are not allowed.
1 reply
NiltonCesar
Feb 9, 2024
URcurious2
Feb 12, 2024
AK BC and DF intersect
Marius_Avion_De_Vanatoare   2
N Jun 17, 2025 by Funcshun840
Source: The Golden Digits 9th Edition P2
Let $\triangle ABC$ be an acute triangle. Let $I$ be its incenter, $D = AI \cap (ABC)$ and $E, F \in (BIC)$ such that $A$, $E$, $F$ are collinear. Let $E_b \in AB$ such that $EE_b = E_bB$. $E_c$ is defined similarly. Let $K \in E_bE_c$ such that $DK \parallel EF$. Prove that $AK \cap BC \cap DF \ne \emptyset$.

Proposed by Pavel Ciurea
2 replies
Marius_Avion_De_Vanatoare
Jun 14, 2025
Funcshun840
Jun 17, 2025
AK BC and DF intersect
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: The Golden Digits 9th Edition P2
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
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Marius_Avion_De_Vanatoare
93 posts
#1 • 1 Y
Y by Funcshun840
Let $\triangle ABC$ be an acute triangle. Let $I$ be its incenter, $D = AI \cap (ABC)$ and $E, F \in (BIC)$ such that $A$, $E$, $F$ are collinear. Let $E_b \in AB$ such that $EE_b = E_bB$. $E_c$ is defined similarly. Let $K \in E_bE_c$ such that $DK \parallel EF$. Prove that $AK \cap BC \cap DF \ne \emptyset$.

Proposed by Pavel Ciurea
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Marius_Avion_De_Vanatoare, Jun 14, 2025, 7:44 PM
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X.Luser
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Bump....
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Funcshun840
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We know that $E \in E_B E_C$ since $\measuredangle E_B E  D  = \measuredangle DB E_B = \measuredangle D C E_C = E_C E D$. Let $F^{\prime}$ be the antipode of $F$ and redefine points so that $X = DF \cap BC$ and $K=AX \cap E_B E_C$, we wish to show $DK$ is parallel to $EF$.We have

$$(EE, EF^{\prime};EB, EC)=(E, F^{\prime}; B, C) = ( EF \cap BC, X; B, C) = (E, K; E_B, E_C) = (DE, DK; DE_B, DE_C) = (EE, EP_{\perp DK \infty}; EB, EC)$$(the last step follows from rotating each line by $90$ degrees). A simple config analysis allows us to conclude that $E _{\perp DK \infty} $ is $EF^{\prime}$, i.e. $DK$ is parallel to $EF$.
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