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k a June Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Jun 2, 2025
Congratulations to all the mathletes who competed at National MATHCOUNTS! If you missed the exciting Countdown Round, you can watch the video at this link. Are you interested in training for MATHCOUNTS or AMC 10 contests? How would you like to train for these math competitions in half the time? We have accelerated sections which meet twice per week instead of once starting on July 8th (7:30pm ET). These sections fill quickly so enroll today!

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0 replies
1 viewing
jlacosta
Jun 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Trig fractions integration
smartvong   1
N 5 minutes ago by alexheinis
Evaluate $$\int^{\pi/2}_{0} \frac{\left(\frac{\sin{x} + 1}{\cos{x} + 2}\right)}{\left(\frac{\sin{x} - 3}{\cos{x} - 4}\right)} \,dx.$$
1 reply
smartvong
6 hours ago
alexheinis
5 minutes ago
9 Favorite topic
A7456321   49
N 3 hours ago by K124659
What is your favorite math topic/subject?

If you don't know why you are here, go binge watch something!

If you forgot why you are here, go to a hospital! :)

If you know why you are here and have voted, maybe say why you picked the option that you picked in a response) :thumbup:

if ur here for any reason whatsoever, CLICK ME YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO
Timeline
49 replies
A7456321
May 23, 2025
K124659
3 hours ago
half angle trigonometric differential equation
CatalinBordea   1
N 4 hours ago by alexheinis
Differential equation to solve: $ \tan\frac{\text{arctan} \left( f'(x)\right)}{2} =f(x) . $
1 reply
CatalinBordea
Yesterday at 6:14 PM
alexheinis
4 hours ago
Japanese Olympiad
parkjungmin   9
N 4 hours ago by Gauler
It's about the Japanese Olympiad

I can't solve it no matter how much I think about it.

If there are people who are good at math

Please help me.
9 replies
parkjungmin
May 10, 2025
Gauler
4 hours ago
A Brutal Bashy Integral from Austria Integration Bee
Silver08   1
N Yesterday at 11:30 PM by Silver08
Source: Livestream Austria Integration Bee Spring 2025
Compute:
$$\int \frac{\cos^2(x)}{\sin(x)+\sqrt{3}\cos(x)}dx$$
1 reply
Silver08
Yesterday at 11:12 PM
Silver08
Yesterday at 11:30 PM
An annoying math problem
Wolfpierce   10
N Yesterday at 8:20 PM by Capybara7017
Okay so what is 2/((√3+1)((3 to the 1/4)+1)((3 to the 1/8)+1)((3 to the 1/16)+1)) to the power of 32?
10 replies
Wolfpierce
Yesterday at 12:17 AM
Capybara7017
Yesterday at 8:20 PM
Could I make AIME?
GallopingUnicorn45   100
N Yesterday at 5:35 PM by GallopingUnicorn45
I'm a 4th grader, and I'm about half-way through Intro to Algebra, Intro to C&P, and Intro to Number Theory. I wouldn't say I get all of the material, but I understand like 80-90% of the material. Could I make AIME in 6th or 7th grade? Also, I'm doing AMC 8 for the second time, I got 15 questions last time, would I be able to make Honor or Distinguished Honor Roll this time?
100 replies
GallopingUnicorn45
Dec 11, 2024
GallopingUnicorn45
Yesterday at 5:35 PM
Lower and Upper Bounds of x
Darealzolt   3
N Yesterday at 2:10 PM by HAL9000sk
Let \(x\) fulfill
\[
x=\frac{1}{\frac{1}{770}+\frac{1}{771}+\frac{1}{772}+\dots+\frac{1}{799}+\frac{1}{800}}
\]Hence find the sum of the greatest integer value that is less than \(x\) and the smallest integer value that is greater than \(x\).
3 replies
Darealzolt
Wednesday at 2:42 PM
HAL9000sk
Yesterday at 2:10 PM
Personal Modulo Problem (Title: Encrypted Code)
PikaVee   2
N Yesterday at 5:01 AM by Yihangzh
3 Pokemon each have they own number to use on a part of a lock. Star the Pikachu has the number 87, Luna the Eevee has the number 92, and Aero the Mew has the number 79. A part of their code is found in the expression $C \equiv (3S+5L-2A) \bmod 101$.

To double check if it is right then it needs to follow $C \equiv 5 \bmod 8$ and $C \equiv 3 \bmod 11$. If it does follow it then you need to find the sum of the coefficients with the code the code itself, but if not replace the sum of the coefficients with the lowest possible sum of coefficients where $X+Y+Z+C$ in $(XZ+YL-ZA) \bmod 101$ where X, Y, and Z are positive integers more than 0.

Solution
2 replies
PikaVee
Wednesday at 4:05 PM
Yihangzh
Yesterday at 5:01 AM
Easy number theory problem
ilikemath247365   7
N Wednesday at 2:37 PM by NamelyOrange
Find two consecutive three digit numbers such that if you take the largest prime factor for each of these numbers and add them, you get $150$.
7 replies
ilikemath247365
Wednesday at 1:54 PM
NamelyOrange
Wednesday at 2:37 PM
prime numbers
wpdnjs   131
N Wednesday at 12:12 PM by ohiorizzler1434
does anyone know how to quickly identify prime numbers?

thanks.
131 replies
wpdnjs
Oct 2, 2024
ohiorizzler1434
Wednesday at 12:12 PM
Last challenge problems in the books
ysn613   19
N May 30, 2025 by CJB19
Algebra
It is known that $\frac{1}{1^2}+\frac{1}{2^2}+\frac{1}{3^2}\dots=\frac{\pi^2}{6}$ Given this fact, determine the exact value of $$\frac{1}{1^2}+\frac{1}{3^2}+\frac{1}{5^2}\dots.$$(Source: Mandelbrot)
Counting and Probability
A $3\times3\times3$ wooden cube is painted on all six faces, then cut into 27 unit cubes. One unit cube is randomly selected and rolled. After it is rolled, $5$ out of the $6$ faces are visible. What is the probability that exactly one of the five visible faces is painted? (Source: MATHCOUNTS)
Number Theory(This technically isn't the last problem but the last chapter doesn't have challenge problems)
The integer p is a 50-digit prime number. When its square is divided by 120, the remainder is not 1. What is the remainder?
I didn't include geometry because I haven't taken it yet, feel free to post it
Answer these problems and post what you think is the order of difficulty
19 replies
ysn613
May 26, 2025
CJB19
May 30, 2025
Easy number theory
britishprobe17   37
N May 30, 2025 by Oshawoot
The number of factors from 2024 that are greater than $\sqrt{2024}$ are
37 replies
britishprobe17
Oct 16, 2024
Oshawoot
May 30, 2025
Bad Computer-Generated Problems
Gogobao   94
N May 29, 2025 by tigeryong
In this post, I attempt to find some of the worst problems generated by AI (Source)

Find the smallest prime number that is divisible by $7$ and $13$
Personal solution
Find the smallest positive integer $n$ such that $n^2 \equiv 2 \pmod{10}$ and $n^2 \equiv 3 \pmod{14}$
Why this problem is bad
Find the equation of the plane that passes through the points $(1, 2, 3), (2, 3, 4), (3, 4, 5)$
Why this problem is bad
Let $f(x)$ be a cubic polynomial such that $f(0) = 1$ and $f(1) = 2$. Find the value of $f(2)$.
Why this problem is bad
A regular $n$-sided polygon is inscribed in a circle of radius $r$. The area of the polygon is $m$, and the area of the circle is $n$. Find $m + n$ This one uses too few variables too many times
94 replies
Gogobao
Apr 17, 2022
tigeryong
May 29, 2025
Sequence with GCD involved
mathematics2004   3
N May 5, 2025 by anudeep
Source: 2021 Simon Marais, A2
Define the sequence of integers $a_1, a_2, a_3, \ldots$ by $a_1 = 1$, and
\[ a_{n+1} = \left(n+1-\gcd(a_n,n) \right) \times a_n \]for all integers $n \ge 1$.
Prove that $\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}=n$ if and only if $n$ is prime or $n=1$.
Here $\gcd(s,t)$ denotes the greatest common divisor of $s$ and $t$.
3 replies
mathematics2004
Nov 2, 2021
anudeep
May 5, 2025
Sequence with GCD involved
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Source: 2021 Simon Marais, A2
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mathematics2004
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#1 • 1 Y
Y by GeoKing
Define the sequence of integers $a_1, a_2, a_3, \ldots$ by $a_1 = 1$, and
\[ a_{n+1} = \left(n+1-\gcd(a_n,n) \right) \times a_n \]for all integers $n \ge 1$.
Prove that $\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}=n$ if and only if $n$ is prime or $n=1$.
Here $\gcd(s,t)$ denotes the greatest common divisor of $s$ and $t$.
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Isolemma
62 posts
#2 • 1 Y
Y by GeoKing
We prove by induction on $n$ that the set of prime divisors of $a_n$ is exactly the set of prime numbers strictly less than $n$.
The claim is true for $n = 1$. Suppose that it is true for $n$ and we prove the case of $n + 1$.

For one inclusion: the factor $(n + 1 - \gcd(a_n, n))$ is at most $n$, hence the prime divisors of $a_{n + 1}$ are all less than $n + 1$.
To prove the other inclusion, we have two cases.
If $n$ is not prime, then any prime number less than $n + 1$ is also less than $n$, thus is already prime divisor of $a_n$, and hence prime divisor of $a_{n + 1}$.
If $n$ is prime, then we have $\gcd(a_n, n) = 1$ because all prime divisors of $a_n$ are less than $n$. Therefore $a_{n + 1} = na_n$ and the claim is clearly true.
We have proved the claim for all $n$ and the original question is a byproduct of our proof.
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Mathematicsislovely
245 posts
#3 • 1 Y
Y by GeoKing
The main claim is that:
  • When $n$ is prime then $\gcd(n,a_n)=1$,which in turn shows $a_{p+1}=p a_p$ for all prime $p$
  • When $n$ is composite then $\gcd(a_n,n)>1$
Proof. For prime $p$,
$$a_p=\prod_{i=1}^{p-1} (i+1-\gcd(i,a_i))$$Since each factor is less than $p$ so $ p\nmid a_p$.
For the second statement notice that $a_n|a_{n+1}$ which implies $a_m|a_n,\forall m\le n$.Let $p$ be a prime divisior of $n$,(so $p<n$).Then $pa_p=a_{p+1}|a_n$.But this shows $p|\gcd(n,a_n)\implies  1<p\le \gcd(n,a_n)$. $\square$
So for composite $n$ we have $\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}=n+1-\gcd(a_n,n)<n$.And when $n$ is prime or 1 then, $\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}=n$. $\blacksquare$
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anudeep
202 posts
#4
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Let us write down few terms just to build some intuition,
\begin{tabular}{c|c c c c c c c c c c c c}
$a_n$ & $a_1$ & $a_2$ & $a_3$ & $a_4$ & $a_5$ & $a_6$ & $a_7$ & $a_8$ & $a_9$ & $a_{10}$ & $a_{11}$ & $a_{12}$\\\\
\hline\\
$n$ & $1$ & $1$ & $2$ & $2\cdot 3$ & $2\cdot 3^2$ & $2\cdot 3^2\cdot 5$ & $2\cdot 3^2\cdot 5$ &$2\cdot 3^2\cdot 5\cdot 7$ & $2\cdot 3^2\cdot 5\cdot 7^2$ & $2\cdot 3^2 \cdot 5\cdot 7^2$& $2\cdot 3^2 \cdot 5\cdot 7^2$& $2\cdot 3^2 \cdot 5\cdot 7^2\cdot11$\\
\end{tabular}Notice that every prime less than $n$ divides $a_n$ for $n\le 12$ at least and more precisely no prime bigger than $N-1$ divides $a_N$ as well. We ask the question, if this holds for any $n$.

Claim 1. A prime $p$ divides $a_n$ if and only if $p<n$.
Proof. This simply follows from an inductive argument (base case holds-refer the table). Suppose this property holds for some natural $N$ then we have,
$$a_{N+1}=\underbrace{(N+1-\gcd(N, a_N))}_{\text{less than $N+1$}}\times a_N $$By hypothesis it is true that every prime less than $N$ divides $a_N$ and are the only ones. As $N+1-\gcd(N, a_N)< N+1$, our claim holds!

To finish off we just need to observe that $\gcd(n, a_n)=1$ if and only if $n$ is a prime which is obvious from our claim and we are done. $\square$
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