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After Mathcounts
Existing_Human1   13
N 5 hours ago by Existing_Human1
Hello Community!

I am officially done with my mathcounts career, as I have officially failed state, and I am now left an aloof blob reminiscing about the good old days.

So ... I was wondering if any of you have fun competitions I can do to relive the glory days of mathcounts. Obviously, their are the AMCs but I'm looking for something more team/travel based and one that preferably has a CDR.

Please specify if the competition is team based and if it has a cdr, and also when it takes place

Thank you in advance!
13 replies
Existing_Human1
Yesterday at 6:21 PM
Existing_Human1
5 hours ago
real math problems
Soupboy0   44
N 6 hours ago by maxamc
Ill be posting questions once in a while. Here's the first question:

What fraction of numbers from $1$ to $1000$ have the digit $7$ and are divisible by $3$?
44 replies
Soupboy0
Mar 25, 2025
maxamc
6 hours ago
STATE SOLUTIONS AND STUFF DROPPED!!!
Soupboy0   47
N Today at 1:44 AM by giratina3
https://www.mathcounts.org/resources/past-competitions
47 replies
Soupboy0
Friday at 5:44 PM
giratina3
Today at 1:44 AM
EMC Wrangle Favorites #1
peace09   7
N Today at 1:34 AM by RollingPanda4616
Is it possible to dissect an isosceles right triangle into multiple similar triangles such that none of them are congruent? If so, provide an example. If not, prove it is impossible.
7 replies
peace09
Jul 28, 2022
RollingPanda4616
Today at 1:34 AM
The daily problem!
Leeoz   62
N Today at 12:42 AM by huajun78
Every day, I will try to post a new problem for you all to solve! If you want to post a daily problem, you can! :)

Please hide solutions and answers, hints are fine though! :)

The first problem is:
[quote=March 21st Problem]Alice flips a fair coin until she gets 2 heads in a row, or a tail and then a head. What is the probability that she stopped after 2 heads in a row? Express your answer as a common fraction.[/quote]

Past Problems!
62 replies
Leeoz
Mar 21, 2025
huajun78
Today at 12:42 AM
Math Problem I cant figure out how to do without bashing
equalsmc2   0
Today at 12:29 AM
Hi,
I cant figure out how to do these 2 problems without bashing. Do you guys have any ideas for an elegant solution? Thank you!
Prob 1.
An RSM sports field has a square shape. Poles with letters M, A, T, H are located at the corners of the square (see the diagram). During warm up, a student starts at any pole, runs to another pole along a side of the square or across the field along diagonal MT (only in the direction from M to T), then runs to another pole along a side of the square or along diagonal MT, and so on. The student cannot repeat a run along the same side/diagonal of the square in the same direction. For instance, she cannot run from M to A twice, but she can run from M to A and at some point from A to M. How many different ways are there to complete the warm up that includes all nine possible runs (see the diagram)? One possible way is M-A-T-H-M-H-T-A-M-T (picture attached)

Prob 2.
In the expression 5@5@5@5@5 you replace each of the four @ symbols with either +, or, or x, or . You can insert one or more pairs of parentheses to control the order of operations. Find the second least whole number that CANNOT be the value of the resulting expression. For example, each of the numbers 25=5+5+5+5+5 and 605+(5+5)×5+5 can be the value of the resulting expression.

Prob 3. (This isnt bashing I don't understand how to do it though)
Suppose BC = 3AB in rectangle ABCD. Points E and F are on side BC such that BE = EF = FC. Compute the sum of the degree measures of the four angles EAB, EAF, EAC, EAD.

P.S. These are from an RSM olympiad. The answers are
0 replies
equalsmc2
Today at 12:29 AM
0 replies
amc10 chances?
aoh11   29
N Yesterday at 11:28 PM by avyaank
if i got a 55.5 on amc10, what are my chances of making aime???
29 replies
aoh11
Apr 4, 2025
avyaank
Yesterday at 11:28 PM
Math and AI 4 Girls
mkwhe   1
N Yesterday at 11:25 PM by avyaank
Hey everyone!

The 2025 MA4G competition is now open!

Apply Here: https://xmathandai4girls.submittable.com/submit


Visit https://www.mathandai4girls.org/ to get started!

Feel free to PM or email mathandai4girls@yahoo.com if you have any questions!
1 reply
mkwhe
Yesterday at 11:24 PM
avyaank
Yesterday at 11:25 PM
mathcounts state score thread
Soupboy0   72
N Yesterday at 10:33 PM by iwastedmyusername
\begin{table}[]
\begin{tabular}{llllll}
Username & Score & Sprint & Target & Nats? & Sillies \\
     Soupboy0    &     40  &     24   &   16     &    yes  &    6     \\
         &       &        &        &       &         \\
         &       &        &        &       &        
\end{tabular}\end{table}
72 replies
Soupboy0
Apr 1, 2025
iwastedmyusername
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
FTW tournament!
evt917   334
N Yesterday at 6:59 PM by AbhayAttarde01
[center]Since all FTW tournaments have dramatically failed, I'm trying a different format. Here is how it works:

1. Type \signup{your rating (type 800 for unrated)}

2. You will pick who you want to play with. You can play if they accept your challenge. So basically the players run everything. Just don't intentionally play low-rated people. Also try to play different people so everyone gets a chance to play! ONLY two player games.

3. If you win, you get 2 points. Ties get one point, and losses get zero.

4. I do not know everybody's time preferences. Because so, I will announce in advance which two players will be playing, so they themselves can organize a game themselves. Remember, THE PLAYERS ARE ORGANIZING THE GAMES THEMSELVES!!! The format is up to them, but please make the time control at least 20 seconds. Please announce the results of the game here so i can update the scoreboard. Games can be unrated.

recommended format if you cannot decide



5. The tournament goes on until april 10th! Extremely long, right? Note that you can still signup after the first games has started, but you will have a disadvantage because some people who signed up as soon as the tournament started already has points.

6. Once you are done with your game, you can find a new opponent and play with them if they want. Note that you must play opponents within the tournament. If you play in the tournament, you are automatically signed up. Have fun!


[rule]

Questions and Answers

All signups and ratings

[rule]

LIVE LEADERBOARD:

1st place: 47 points | 17W 3L 3T | Yrock
2nd place: 14 points | 6W 3L 2T | jb2015007
3rd place: 5 points | 2W 8L 1T | sadas123

4th place: 4 points | 1W 2L 0T | IcyFire500
5th place: 0 points | 0W 1L 0T | NS0004
334 replies
evt917
Apr 3, 2025
AbhayAttarde01
Yesterday at 6:59 PM
Putnam 2015 B1
Kent Merryfield   32
N May 6, 2024 by chakrabortyahan
Let $f$ be a three times differentiable function (defined on $\mathbb{R}$ and real-valued) such that $f$ has at least five distinct real zeros. Prove that $f+6f'+12f''+8f'''$ has at least two distinct real zeros.
32 replies
Kent Merryfield
Dec 6, 2015
chakrabortyahan
May 6, 2024
Putnam 2015 B1
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Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#1 • 6 Y
Y by Tawan, Davi-8191, son7, HWenslawski, Adventure10, Mango247
Let $f$ be a three times differentiable function (defined on $\mathbb{R}$ and real-valued) such that $f$ has at least five distinct real zeros. Prove that $f+6f'+12f''+8f'''$ has at least two distinct real zeros.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#2 • 6 Y
Y by samuraivader, son7, HWenslawski, Adventure10, QCELUA, Mango247
Let $X(f) = f + 2f'$. The problem asks to show $f$ having five distinct real roots implies $X(X(X(f)))$ has at least two. But by Rolle's Theorem on \[ g(x) = e^{\frac12 x} f(x) \implies 2g'(x) = e^{\frac12 x}(f(x) + 2f'(x)) \]we see that $f$ having $k$ roots gives $X(f)$ having $k-1$ roots, so done.
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Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#3 • 5 Y
Y by v_Enhance, Tawan, Adventure10, Mango247, sde7
Let $g(x)=8e^{x/2}f(x).$ Then by the product rule, $g'''(x)=e^{x/2}(f(x)+6f'(x)+12f''(x)+8f'''(x)).$

The zeros of $f$ are exactly the zeros of $g.$ So $g$ has at least 5 distinct zeros on the real line. By Rolle's Theorem, between any two zeros of a function must lie at least one zero of the derivative. Hence, $g'$ has at least 4 distinct zeros, $g''$ has at least 3 distinct zeros, and $g'''$ has at least 2 distinct zeros. The zeros of $g'''$ are exactly the zeros of $f+6f'+12f''+8f''',$ and we are done.
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BOGTRO
5818 posts
#4 • 10 Y
Y by v_Enhance, samuraivader, UrInvalid, Mathphile01, RMACR7LP, ayan_mathematics_king, son7, maths_arka, Adventure10, Mango247
Sol
Motivation
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Wolstenholme
543 posts
#5 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Guys, if my proof was exactly the same as Kent Merryfield's word for word, except that I mistakenly wrote "Intermediate Value Theorem" instead of "Rolle's Theorem" because I mixed them up, do you think this will be graded 10- or 0+. $\textbf{Kent Merryfield}$ your experienced input would be highly appreciated.
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jh235
910 posts
#6 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
I like how the main idea for this is really similar to the A1 on last years Putnam. :)
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djmathman
7936 posts
#7 • 2 Y
Y by Tawan, Adventure10
Sketch
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Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#8 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
@ Wostenholme: I am not and never have been a Putnam grader. I'm not going to engage in speculation about what graders will or won't do.
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Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#9 • 4 Y
Y by v_Enhance, Tawan, Adventure10, Mango247
@ Bogtro:

To my mind, the source of the motivation for the answer - multiply by $e^{x/2}$ - comes from differential equations. The interplay among exponentials, polynomial-style manipulations of differential operators, and characteristic polynomials is embedded into thinking about linear constant coefficient differential equations.

On the other hand, the first thing I tried was multiplying by $e^{2x},$ because I'm not that clever. That was a self-correcting mistake.
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djmathman
7936 posts
#10 • 2 Y
Y by Tawan, Adventure10
Hmm during the test I noticed (almost) immediately that if $D$ is the standard differential operator, then the expression can be written as $(2D+1)^3f$. I couldn't ever get a solution utilizing this (darn I forgot all my DiffyQ), but I think this is one of the reasons why the $e^{x/2}$ solution comes out so nicely.
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Pyrious
3 posts
#11 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
This is strange seeing everyone proved the $f+2f'$ thing by multiplying by $e^{x/2}$. Personally I proved the same thing but I wasn't clever enough to think to multiply by $e^{x/2}$. Instead, I "brute forced" it: naming all of the roots so $f(a_i)=0$ and $f'(b_i) = 0$, defining the function $g = f+2f'$, and observing that $g$ changes sign between $b_i$ and $a_{i+1}$ for any $i$.

EDIT: I now see that this is also what you did, djmathman.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Pyrious, Dec 7, 2015, 6:03 AM
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#12 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
djmathman wrote:
I claim that if a function $y$ has $n$ distinct real roots, then $y+y'$ must have at least $n-1$. . . . Now consider the $n$ real numbers \[s_1<s_2<\ldots <s_{n-1}<r_n.\]If $s_is_{i+1} < 0$, then by IVT there must exist a root in $(s_i,s_{i+1})$.
Pyrious wrote:
This is strange seeing everyone proved the $f+2f'$ thing by multiplying by $e^{x/2}$. ... defining the function $g = f+2f'$, and observing that $g$ changes sign between $b_i$ and $a_{i+1}$ for any $i$.

EDIT: I now see that this is also what you did, djmathman.

Because it doesn't work, although for subtle reasons that I suspect the Putnam writers may not notice as well.

Both of you are claiming that if a differentiable function $f$ has $k$ real roots then $f+2f'$ has $k-1$ real roots. This is true. But you go on to prove this by applying the Intermediate Value Theorem to something related to $f'$. The trouble is that even is $f$ is differentiable and hence continuous, the function $f'$ need not be continuous (for example the function $x^2\sin(1/x)$). So one cannot apply IVT (or at least one needs to modify the statement somehow).

This is why I deliberately appealed to an $\exp(x/2)f(x)$ trick, because I absolutely did not trust myself to deal with these real-analysis type issues.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by v_Enhance, Dec 7, 2015, 1:21 PM
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AnderExtrema
417 posts
#14 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Maybe I'm not thinking clearly (haven't slept in 20+ hours), but doesn't $f'$ have to be continuous since, if $f$ is three times differentiable it follows that $f'$ is differentiable, and therefore continuous?
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mssmath
977 posts
#15 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
At v_Enhance it is always possible to use IVT on derivative due to Darboux's Theorem.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#16 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
AnderExtrema wrote:
Maybe I'm not thinking clearly (haven't slept in 20+ hours), but doesn't $f'$ have to be continuous since, if $f$ is three times differentiable it follows that $f'$ is differentiable, and therefore continuous?
Yes, it works for the first two steps and you get that $f + 4f' + 4f''$ has three real roots. But at the very last step, you need $f'''$ to be continuous to get $f' + 6f' + 12f'' + 8f'''$ to have three real roots.
mssmath wrote:
At v_Enhance it is always possible to use IVT on derivative due to Darboux's Theorem.
Ah, that would be useful. OK, so I guess it works, although IVT is not what you want to call it.
EDIT: Apparently even this isn't quite enough, see math154's comment below. The sum of two Darboux functions need not itself be Darboux.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by v_Enhance, Dec 9, 2015, 9:40 PM
Reason: gg
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JoeBlow
3469 posts
#17 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
mssmath wrote:
...it is always possible to use IVT on derivative due to Darboux's Theorem.
Even so, y_Enhance's point about the inapplicability of IVT still stands. The correct thing to cite would be the Darboux property of derivatives, not IVT (which is always stated to apply to continuous function). I don't know how Putnam graders will take it, but I would take off a point on an exam.
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djmathman
7936 posts
#18 • 3 Y
Y by Tawan, Adventure10, Mango247
Hmm ok. Shucks, this is probably a 1 then, considering I forgot to mention IVT as justification for why each of the first $n-2$ intervals had a root.

In any case, what makes my use of Rolle different from the use of Rolle in, say, this?
v_Enhance wrote:
But by Rolle's Theorem on \[ g(x) = e^{\frac12 x} f(x) \implies 2g'(x) = e^{\frac12 x}(f(x) + 2f'(x)) \]we see that $f$ having $k$ roots gives $X(f)$ having $k-1$ roots, so done.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#19 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
The Rolle's theorem is fine. The issue is that you used IVT.
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iglenini
50 posts
#20 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
I'm wondering, how strict is the grading?
I found the g(x)=e^(x/2)f(x) trick, but I wrote the following:
"We can use the Intermediate Value theorem (I think? I know it's a really common theorem...) to see that between every two roots of g, g' has a root."
and drew a diagram demonstrating what I was talking about like the following:
http://images.tutorvista.com/cms/images/113/rolles-theorem.png
Is it really necessary to know the name of the theorem or is this fine?

I'm not familiar with Putnam grading much. Like, in a similar vain, if for B4, I used completely correct logic, but a silly algebra mistake and dropped a factor of 7 to get (17/73)*(15+(4/3))=(833/219) instead of (17/73)*((15/7)+(4/3))=(17/21), do you guys think that this would bring the proof down to a 1-2 level, or would it still be like an 8?
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by iglenini, Dec 7, 2015, 6:06 PM
Reason: Added image
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AnderExtrema
417 posts
#21 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
In regards to knowing the name, if your logic is perfect (i.e. you by intuition proved Rolle's Theorem or Darboux's theorem) then you don't need the name. But if you make a leap in logic and can't cite what allows you to do that, that's probably a trigger to the grader that you don't actually know what you're doing.
I'm not a grader but these would be my thoughts if I was one. (Although if I graded I'd at least give partial credit for being correct with wrong name because there are so many theorems with names. Mixing up names shouldn't really matter as long as you always know what to apply and where.)
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math154
4302 posts
#22 • 4 Y
Y by Tawan, Eliot, Adventure10, Mango247
v_Enhance wrote:
mssmath wrote:
At v_Enhance it is always possible to use IVT on derivative due to Darboux's Theorem.
Ah, that would be useful. OK, so I guess it works, although IVT is not what you want to call it.

EDIT 12/15/15: Oops, $f + 2f'$ has an anti-derivative (see below), so ignore my (now hidden) earlier comments.

Click to reveal hidden text
This post has been edited 4 times. Last edited by math154, Dec 15, 2015, 10:46 PM
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mssmath
977 posts
#23 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
But f is trivially Darboux, isn't it as it is both continuous and differentiable?
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math154
4302 posts
#24 • 6 Y
Y by mssmath, Tawan, OlympusHero, Eliot, Adventure10, Mango247
Yes, but the sum of two Darboux functions need not be Darboux, so some extra structure is required to prove that $f+2f'$ is Darboux (beyond that $f,f'$ are Darboux).

EDIT 12/15/15: The discussion about sums of Darboux functions is unnecessary. See below---one can directly apply "Darboux's theorem (for derivatives)" to $f+2f'$ (which has an anti-derivative), but I failed to realize this earlier.
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edited by math154, Dec 15, 2015, 10:54 PM
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#25 • 6 Y
Y by math154, mssmath, jh235, IDMasterz, Adventure10, Mango247
math154 wrote:
(Alternatively, a more ad hoc way of using Darboux's theorem would be to note that the derivative $(2e^{x/2} f)' = e^{x/2}(f + 2f')$ has the Darboux property, and $e^{x/2}$ is a positive function, so the root-finding method above applied to $2e^{x/2} f$ will give roots carrying over to $f + 2f'$. But logically speaking, this fails to avoid using $(2e^{x/2} f)' = e^{x/2}(f + 2f')$ in the first place.)

Ryan Alweiss points out to me that you can also just apply Darboux's theorem to $g = 2f + \textstyle \int f$ (hence $g' = f+2f'$). Anyways...
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mssmath
977 posts
#26 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
(That what I was trying to say so thank you. Seems like the "e" trick is basically a cover to avoid using Darboux)
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viperstrike
1198 posts
#27 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Can someone tell me the motivation for this problem? This seems very very contrived.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#28 • 2 Y
Y by derangements, Adventure10
I mean you kind of notice that $t^3 + 6t^2 + 12t + 8 = (t+2)^3$. Also the similarity to Rolle's Theorem.
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Lang_Tu_Mua_Bui
157 posts
#29 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Kent Merryfield wrote:
Let $f$ be a three times differentiable function (defined on $\mathbb{R}$ and real-valued) such that $f$ has at least five distinct real zeros. Prove that $f+6f'+12f''+8f'''$ has at least two distinct real zeros.

I think Using f(x) has n distinct real >> f^(k)(x) has n-k real .
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ZETA_in_olympiad
2211 posts
#30
Y by
Let $g(x)=e^{x/2}f(x).$ Then $g$ has atleast $5$ distinct zeroes, and by Rolle's Theorem, $g',g'',g'''$ have atleast $4,3,2$ distinct real zeroes, respectively. Since, $$g'''(x)=\frac{1}{8} e^{x/2} (f(x)+6f'(x)+12f"(x)+8f'''(x))$$and $e^{x/2}$ is never zero, so we're done. $\square$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by ZETA_in_olympiad, Mar 17, 2022, 11:41 AM
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YaoAOPS
1501 posts
#32
Y by
Missed the funny.

Claim: The map from $g \to g + 2g'$ removes at most one zero.
Proof. Consider the sign of the derivative of two adjacent zeros. If they are both the same sign and nonzero, this implies that there must be another zero between them with the opposite sign of derivative or zero, giving a root.
Else, if they are opposite signs and nonzero, a zero between them follows by Darboux's.
Finally, suppose that one of the signs is $0$. We show that $g + 2g'$ has a zero in this interval WLOG let it be second and let the other sign be positive.
Then $g + 2g'$ is strictly positive in the interval. It follows that $-g' < \frac{g}{2}$, which means that the value of $g$ halves by at most $2$ every one, and is never zero, contradiction. $\blacksquare$
Applying this map three times gives the result.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by YaoAOPS, Jun 18, 2024, 5:45 PM
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Sreemani76
90 posts
#33 • 1 Y
Y by kamatadu
viperstrike wrote:
Can someone tell me the motivation for this problem? This seems very very contrived.

Ok, post 4 gave good insight, here's what I thought of the motivation was, so whenever we have a string of higher degree derivates in addition (or in subtraction) you generally need to think about $e^x f(x)$ type of stuff and especially their derivative, something the $x$ in the exponent can be changed with other functions according to needs. For lower degree derivates, you can also solve linear differential equation for your desired function. One very long method (that i did painfully) was just take $e^{ax} f(x)$ and differentiating it 3 times (which is hectic to do of course) and then in our final expression, we would choose $a$ according to our needs (in this case $1/2$) and then adjust by some constant. Then we take Rolle (as we need to show 2 roots of a 3rd deg derivative, and noticing we were already given $f$ to have 5 distinct roots, this was kind of motivated too.
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sanyalarnab
929 posts
#34
Y by
Sreemani76 wrote:
One very long method (that i did painfully) was just take $e^{ax} f(x)$ and differentiating it 3 times (which is hectic to do of course)
It's not hectic...a thing called general leibnitz rule exists(popularly binomial theorem of derivatives) ;)
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chakrabortyahan
377 posts
#36
Y by
A little backstory
ezzy$\blacksquare\smiley$

My 100 th post in college math yay!!
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