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Contests & Programs AMC and other contests, summer programs, etc.
AMC and other contests, summer programs, etc.
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Contests & Programs AMC and other contests, summer programs, etc.
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k a March Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Mar 2, 2025
March is the month for State MATHCOUNTS competitions! Kudos to everyone who participated in their local chapter competitions and best of luck to all going to State! Join us on March 11th for a Math Jam devoted to our favorite Chapter competition problems! Are you interested in training for MATHCOUNTS? Be sure to check out our AMC 8/MATHCOUNTS Basics and Advanced courses.

Are you ready to level up with Olympiad training? Registration is open with early bird pricing available for our WOOT programs: MathWOOT (Levels 1 and 2), CodeWOOT, PhysicsWOOT, and ChemWOOT. What is WOOT? WOOT stands for Worldwide Online Olympiad Training and is a 7-month high school math Olympiad preparation and testing program that brings together many of the best students from around the world to learn Olympiad problem solving skills. Classes begin in September!

Do you have plans this summer? There are so many options to fit your schedule and goals whether attending a summer camp or taking online classes, it can be a great break from the routine of the school year. Check out our summer courses at AoPS Online, or if you want a math or language arts class that doesn’t have homework, but is an enriching summer experience, our AoPS Virtual Campus summer camps may be just the ticket! We are expanding our locations for our AoPS Academies across the country with 15 locations so far and new campuses opening in Saratoga CA, Johns Creek GA, and the Upper West Side NY. Check out this page for summer camp information.

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]March 5th (Wednesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, HCSSiM Math Jam 2025. Amber Verser, Assistant Director of the Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics, will host an information session about HCSSiM, a summer program for high school students.
[*]March 6th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar on Math Competitions from elementary through high school. Join us for an enlightening session that demystifies the world of math competitions and helps you make informed decisions about your contest journey.
[*]March 11th (Tuesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MATHCOUNTS Chapter Discussion MATH JAM. AoPS instructors will discuss some of their favorite problems from the MATHCOUNTS Chapter Competition. All are welcome!
[*]March 13th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar about Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus. Transform your summer into an unforgettable learning adventure! From elementary through high school, we offer dynamic summer camps featuring topics in mathematics, language arts, and competition preparation - all designed to fit your schedule and ignite your passion for learning.[/list]
Our full course list for upcoming classes is below:
All classes run 7:30pm-8:45pm ET/4:30pm - 5:45pm PT unless otherwise noted.

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0 replies
jlacosta
Mar 2, 2025
0 replies
k i Adding contests to the Contest Collections
dcouchman   1
N Apr 5, 2023 by v_Enhance
Want to help AoPS remain a valuable Olympiad resource? Help us add contests to AoPS's Contest Collections.

Find instructions and a list of contests to add here: https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c40244h1064480_contests_to_add
1 reply
dcouchman
Sep 9, 2019
v_Enhance
Apr 5, 2023
k i Zero tolerance
ZetaX   49
N May 4, 2019 by NoDealsHere
Source: Use your common sense! (enough is enough)
Some users don't want to learn, some other simply ignore advises.
But please follow the following guideline:


To make it short: ALWAYS USE YOUR COMMON SENSE IF POSTING!
If you don't have common sense, don't post.


More specifically:

For new threads:


a) Good, meaningful title:
The title has to say what the problem is about in best way possible.
If that title occured already, it's definitely bad. And contest names aren't good either.
That's in fact a requirement for being able to search old problems.

Examples:
Bad titles:
- "Hard"/"Medium"/"Easy" (if you find it so cool how hard/easy it is, tell it in the post and use a title that tells us the problem)
- "Number Theory" (hey guy, guess why this forum's named that way¿ and is it the only such problem on earth¿)
- "Fibonacci" (there are millions of Fibonacci problems out there, all posted and named the same...)
- "Chinese TST 2003" (does this say anything about the problem¿)
Good titles:
- "On divisors of a³+2b³+4c³-6abc"
- "Number of solutions to x²+y²=6z²"
- "Fibonacci numbers are never squares"


b) Use search function:
Before posting a "new" problem spend at least two, better five, minutes to look if this problem was posted before. If it was, don't repost it. If you have anything important to say on topic, post it in one of the older threads.
If the thread is locked cause of this, use search function.

Update (by Amir Hossein). The best way to search for two keywords in AoPS is to input
[code]+"first keyword" +"second keyword"[/code]
so that any post containing both strings "first word" and "second form".


c) Good problem statement:
Some recent really bad post was:
[quote]$lim_{n\to 1}^{+\infty}\frac{1}{n}-lnn$[/quote]
It contains no question and no answer.
If you do this, too, you are on the best way to get your thread deleted. Write everything clearly, define where your variables come from (and define the "natural" numbers if used). Additionally read your post at least twice before submitting. After you sent it, read it again and use the Edit-Button if necessary to correct errors.


For answers to already existing threads:


d) Of any interest and with content:
Don't post things that are more trivial than completely obvious. For example, if the question is to solve $x^{3}+y^{3}=z^{3}$, do not answer with "$x=y=z=0$ is a solution" only. Either you post any kind of proof or at least something unexpected (like "$x=1337, y=481, z=42$ is the smallest solution). Someone that does not see that $x=y=z=0$ is a solution of the above without your post is completely wrong here, this is an IMO-level forum.
Similar, posting "I have solved this problem" but not posting anything else is not welcome; it even looks that you just want to show off what a genius you are.

e) Well written and checked answers:
Like c) for new threads, check your solutions at least twice for mistakes. And after sending, read it again and use the Edit-Button if necessary to correct errors.



To repeat it: ALWAYS USE YOUR COMMON SENSE IF POSTING!


Everything definitely out of range of common sense will be locked or deleted (exept for new users having less than about 42 posts, they are newbies and need/get some time to learn).

The above rules will be applied from next monday (5. march of 2007).
Feel free to discuss on this here.
49 replies
ZetaX
Feb 27, 2007
NoDealsHere
May 4, 2019
9 Can I make MOP
Bigtree   23
N 3 minutes ago by babyzombievillager
My dream is to be on IMO team ik thats not going to happen b/c the kids that make it are like 6th mop quals :play_ball:. I somehow got a $208.5$ index this yr (118.5 on amc10+ 9 on AIME) i’m in 7th rn btw first year comp math also. I will grind so hard until like 30 hrs/week. I’m ok at proofs. made mc nats
23 replies
+2 w
Bigtree
Mar 9, 2025
babyzombievillager
3 minutes ago
[Registration Open] 2025 NJ Mustang Math Tournament
KevinChen_Yay   2
N 25 minutes ago by eg4334
Source: https://www.mustangmath.com/competitions/mmt-2025#NJ
Hello everyone! It is time to register for the 2025 Mustang Math Tournament at NJ for middle schoolers! See details and access the registration link here: https://www.mustangmath.com/competitions/mmt-2025#NJ. If you are too far from the location mentioned on the website, please look through the website for other regions hosting the tournament, or just sign up for the online tournament (but note that if you are within 50 miles of any of the in-person locations, you must attend there).

Thank you so much for your support and it means a lot to me, as well as the other college students and high schoolers contributing to Mustang Math as a whole. We put a lot of hard work into making the tournament problems fun and unique, with the rounds being not just problem solving but a truly phenomenal experience for middle school students. Thanks again!
2 replies
+1 w
KevinChen_Yay
Mar 8, 2025
eg4334
25 minutes ago
USAMO Grading
AdityaDwivedi   2
N 33 minutes ago by mathprodigy2011
Hello,

I was wondering how USAMO grading works. For one of my solutions, I kinda generalized a part of my solution cause I assumed that the reader would be able to follow but idk if it’ll drop my score from a 7 to a 5 or 6. So how much detail to I rlly need to include to get full points?
2 replies
AdityaDwivedi
Today at 4:21 PM
mathprodigy2011
33 minutes ago
mohs of each oly
cowstalker   15
N an hour ago by KevinChen_Yay
what are the general concencus for the mohs of each of the problems on usajmo and usamo
15 replies
cowstalker
Today at 1:20 AM
KevinChen_Yay
an hour ago
Maximizing
steven_zhang123   1
N 2 hours ago by RagvaloD
Source: China TST 2001 Quiz 5 P2
Find the largest positive real number \( c \) such that for any positive integer \( n \), satisfies \(\{ \sqrt{7n} \} \geq \frac{c}{\sqrt{7n}}\).
1 reply
steven_zhang123
Today at 12:56 AM
RagvaloD
2 hours ago
number theory
karimeow   1
N 2 hours ago by RagvaloD
Prove that there exist infinitely many positive integers m such that the equation (xz+1)(yz+1) = mz^3 + 1 has infinitely many positive integer solutions.
1 reply
karimeow
Today at 8:14 AM
RagvaloD
2 hours ago
Poland 2017 P1
j___d   18
N 2 hours ago by Avron
Points $P$ and $Q$ lie respectively on sides $AB$ and $AC$ of a triangle $ABC$ and $BP=CQ$. Segments $BQ$ and $CP$ cross at $R$. Circumscribed circles of triangles $BPR$ and $CQR$ cross again at point $S$ different from $R$. Prove that point $S$ lies on the bisector of angle $BAC$.
18 replies
j___d
Apr 4, 2017
Avron
2 hours ago
Nice problem
hanzo.ei   2
N 2 hours ago by socrates
Given two positive integers \( m, n \) satisfying \( m > n \) and their sum is an even number, consider the quadratic polynomial:

\[
P(x) = x^2 - (m^2 - m + 1)x + (m^2 - n^2 - m)(n^2 + 1).
\]
Prove that all roots of \( P(x) \) are positive integers but are not perfect squares.
2 replies
hanzo.ei
Today at 2:58 PM
socrates
2 hours ago
Kvant 898 NT
Anto0110   4
N 3 hours ago by Hertz
Source: Kvant 898
Find all odd integers \(0 < a < b < c < d\) such that
\[
ad = bc, \quad a + d = 2^k, \quad b + c = 2^m
\]for some positive integers \(k\) and \(m\).
4 replies
Anto0110
Jul 27, 2024
Hertz
3 hours ago
prove that a chord is tangent to the incircle
ihategeo_1969   1
N 3 hours ago by ihategeo_1969
Source: SORY 2019 P6
Let $ABC$ be a triangle with incenter $I$ and intouch triangle $DEF$. Let $P$ be the foot of the perpendicular from $D$ onto $EF$. Assume that $BP$, $CP$ intersect the sides $AC$, $AB$ in $Y,Z$ respectively. Finally, let the rays $IP$, $YZ$ meet the circumcircle of $\triangle ABC$ in $R$, $X$ respectively. Prove that the tangent from $X$ to the incircle and the line $RD$ meet on the circumcircle of $\triangle ABC$.

Proposed by Aditya Khurmi
1 reply
ihategeo_1969
3 hours ago
ihategeo_1969
3 hours ago
PQ parallel to BC
keyree10   16
N 3 hours ago by Mathworld314
Source: INMO 2010 Problem 1
Let $ ABC$ be a triangle with circum-circle $ \Gamma$. Let $ M$ be a point in the interior of triangle $ ABC$ which is also on the bisector of $ \angle A$. Let $ AM, BM, CM$ meet $ \Gamma$ in $ A_{1}, B_{1}, C_{1}$ respectively. Suppose $ P$ is the point of intersection of $ A_{1}C_{1}$ with $ AB$; and $ Q$ is the point of intersection of $ A_{1}B_{1}$ with $ AC$. Prove that $ PQ$ is parallel to $ BC$.
16 replies
keyree10
Jan 18, 2010
Mathworld314
3 hours ago
2x+1 is a perfect square but the following x+1 integers are not.
Sumgato   9
N 3 hours ago by lksb
Source: Spain Mathematical Olympiad 2018 P1
Find all positive integers $x$ such that $2x+1$ is a perfect square but none of the integers $2x+2, 2x+3, \ldots, 3x+2$ are perfect squares.
9 replies
Sumgato
Mar 17, 2018
lksb
3 hours ago
ortho conf DEF, radius MD, intersect ME,MF, collinear H,K,L
star-1ord   1
N 3 hours ago by Davut1102
Source: Estonia Final Round 2025 12-3
Let $ABC$ be an acute-angled triangle with $|AB|<|AC|$. The altitudes $AD,BE$ and $CF$ intersect at $H$. Let $M$ be the midpoint of $BC$. Point $K$ is chosen on the extension of $EM$ beyond $M$ and point $L$ is chosen on the segment $FM$ such that $|MK|=|ML|=|MD|$. Prove that points $K, L$ and $H$ are collinear.

a little harder version
1 reply
star-1ord
6 hours ago
Davut1102
3 hours ago
Right angles on incircle
DynamoBlaze   38
N 4 hours ago by ehuseyinyigit
Source: RMO 2018 P6
Let $ABC$ be an acute-angled triangle with $AB<AC$. Let $I$ be the incentre of triangle $ABC$, and let $D,E,F$ be the points where the incircle touches the sides $BC,CA,AB,$ respectively. Let $BI,CI$ meet the line $EF$ at $Y,X$ respectively. Further assume that both $X$ and $Y$ are outside the triangle $ABC$. Prove that
$\text{(i)}$ $B,C,Y,X$ are concyclic.
$\text{(ii)}$ $I$ is also the incentre of triangle $DYX$.
38 replies
DynamoBlaze
Oct 7, 2018
ehuseyinyigit
4 hours ago
k Depression
shiningsunnyday   32
N Jan 16, 2016 by shiningsunnyday
Hey all...

I typically don't make threads like this but I'm in a desperate situation. For the past year, I've studied extremely intensely for the AMCs and now the AMCs are just around the corner. To be honest, I've never felt this motivated in my life before. I've devoted every awake hour of my winter break to math. However, as winter break ended for my school, something changed.

For the majority of last semester, I was a straight-A student. I made a groove of balancing school and math. I was a top student in my APUSH class. However, as the semester began wrapping up, the pressure to 4.0 closed in on me like a thick blanket. Suddenly, everything changed when I bombed this heavy-weighted APUSH test and my grade dropped to an A-. To cap it off, my APUSH and bio teachers are extremely hard graders and for the end of last semester, I had to stop doing any kind of math in order to study for the APUSH finals. I studied 10+ hours a day for 2 consecutive weeks for the APUSH finals. I went through every kind of prep possible in order to get the grade I felt I deserved. I went to extents like drinking bottle after bottle of coffee at night to stay awake. I isolated myself, because my dream is to make a top college and I felt the pressure to get a 4.0. I lived and breathed the phrase "4.0 or DIE" everyday up until the exam. After taking the final exam, I suffered an emotional roller coaster. Now that winter break is over for my school, I got my exam score back -- a B (below class average). Some of my friends got A's and my life completely crashed.

1) Some of my friends, who didn't study at all, ended up getting the same scores as me.
2) Looking over the impenetrable prep I did, I have absolutely no clue what I could've done better (and if it's even practically possible).
3) Worse, I felt like the time I wasted could've been devoted to AMC prep. Why would I even care who attended the Treaty of Paris, who Aaron Burr was, or the parties of the 1832 election, say.

I felt that my mind began to rot in class: practicing an instrument I will put down sooner or later, memorizing dates and historical facts that are no more important than a grade on a paper, learning the functions of lipids, say, or recounting what happened in the Crucible say. My point is, all this junk that has been overwhelming me physically and mentally have taken away my opportunities to do what I'm passionate about. The physics and math books at my home began accumulating dust.

Now that the AMCs are around the corner, it's a wonder I'm still breathing by sleeping 3 hours a day and drinking red bulls all night long. However, my math prep efficiency is lowering as a result, and at one point this past week I decided: Screw it. There is absolutely no point in school. So I stopped doing my homework, stopped listening in class, stopped going to class (twice so far). And yet, ever since middle school, the expectations of my parents and myself have ingrained in me the importance of the letter on my exam paper, of going to school and maintaining a good impression of myself. This contradiction is what may have led to my depression.

To top it off, I failed the PSAT -- which I spent countless hours on this year. And worse, all of this happened right before the AMCs.

I've been studying about 6-7 hours of math a day so far this new semester, and the harder I study, the greater the pang in my heart is -- whenever I check my gradebook.

Finally, I'm already one of the best at math in my school. No one understands me. No one knows how important JMO is to me. No one knows the trouble I'm going through. My friends are isolating me. My pregnant stepmom needs to be taken care of so I spend very little time with my family.
Even when I went to talk to my counselor all he keeps on saying is how an A- is an excellent grade for APUSH and how I should be complacent.
I've cried multiple times this past week and I don't know what to do. I love AoPS and knowing that there exists people online who can sympathize with me is the sole reason I can pull through school day after day.
Any advice from you guys would help me so much. As of this moment as I'm typing this I'm hiding in my school's bathroom because all my self-esteem is gone. Please tell me what I should do...
32 replies
shiningsunnyday
Jan 14, 2016
shiningsunnyday
Jan 16, 2016
Depression
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shiningsunnyday
1350 posts
#1 • 51 Y
Y by thatmathgeek, mathwizard888, librian2000, Wiggle Wam, champion999, DeathLlama9, 62861, whatshisbucket, amplreneo, Flash12, jh235, thequantumguy, Einsteinhead, Wave-Particle, Eugenis, hwl0304, katmcphie, ThisIsASentence, 15Pandabears, Mathaddict11, spartan168, DivideBy0, Alnitak, Einstein314, sonicmouse37, dantx5, muti66, ingenio, Mudkipswims42, HVishy, Sun13, Th3Numb3rThr33, david2006322, mathmaster2012, rkm0959, dhusb45, AMC_Kid, Plasma_Vortex, TheOneYouWant, aops777, jdeaks1000, ac_math, AstroCarp, Ultroid999OCPN, StavMath, Subh108, mathleticguyyy, OlympusHero, rayfish, Adventure10, Mango247
Hey all...

I typically don't make threads like this but I'm in a desperate situation. For the past year, I've studied extremely intensely for the AMCs and now the AMCs are just around the corner. To be honest, I've never felt this motivated in my life before. I've devoted every awake hour of my winter break to math. However, as winter break ended for my school, something changed.

For the majority of last semester, I was a straight-A student. I made a groove of balancing school and math. I was a top student in my APUSH class. However, as the semester began wrapping up, the pressure to 4.0 closed in on me like a thick blanket. Suddenly, everything changed when I bombed this heavy-weighted APUSH test and my grade dropped to an A-. To cap it off, my APUSH and bio teachers are extremely hard graders and for the end of last semester, I had to stop doing any kind of math in order to study for the APUSH finals. I studied 10+ hours a day for 2 consecutive weeks for the APUSH finals. I went through every kind of prep possible in order to get the grade I felt I deserved. I went to extents like drinking bottle after bottle of coffee at night to stay awake. I isolated myself, because my dream is to make a top college and I felt the pressure to get a 4.0. I lived and breathed the phrase "4.0 or DIE" everyday up until the exam. After taking the final exam, I suffered an emotional roller coaster. Now that winter break is over for my school, I got my exam score back -- a B (below class average). Some of my friends got A's and my life completely crashed.

1) Some of my friends, who didn't study at all, ended up getting the same scores as me.
2) Looking over the impenetrable prep I did, I have absolutely no clue what I could've done better (and if it's even practically possible).
3) Worse, I felt like the time I wasted could've been devoted to AMC prep. Why would I even care who attended the Treaty of Paris, who Aaron Burr was, or the parties of the 1832 election, say.

I felt that my mind began to rot in class: practicing an instrument I will put down sooner or later, memorizing dates and historical facts that are no more important than a grade on a paper, learning the functions of lipids, say, or recounting what happened in the Crucible say. My point is, all this junk that has been overwhelming me physically and mentally have taken away my opportunities to do what I'm passionate about. The physics and math books at my home began accumulating dust.

Now that the AMCs are around the corner, it's a wonder I'm still breathing by sleeping 3 hours a day and drinking red bulls all night long. However, my math prep efficiency is lowering as a result, and at one point this past week I decided: Screw it. There is absolutely no point in school. So I stopped doing my homework, stopped listening in class, stopped going to class (twice so far). And yet, ever since middle school, the expectations of my parents and myself have ingrained in me the importance of the letter on my exam paper, of going to school and maintaining a good impression of myself. This contradiction is what may have led to my depression.

To top it off, I failed the PSAT -- which I spent countless hours on this year. And worse, all of this happened right before the AMCs.

I've been studying about 6-7 hours of math a day so far this new semester, and the harder I study, the greater the pang in my heart is -- whenever I check my gradebook.

Finally, I'm already one of the best at math in my school. No one understands me. No one knows how important JMO is to me. No one knows the trouble I'm going through. My friends are isolating me. My pregnant stepmom needs to be taken care of so I spend very little time with my family.
Even when I went to talk to my counselor all he keeps on saying is how an A- is an excellent grade for APUSH and how I should be complacent.
I've cried multiple times this past week and I don't know what to do. I love AoPS and knowing that there exists people online who can sympathize with me is the sole reason I can pull through school day after day.
Any advice from you guys would help me so much. As of this moment as I'm typing this I'm hiding in my school's bathroom because all my self-esteem is gone. Please tell me what I should do...
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by shiningsunnyday, Jan 14, 2016, 6:37 AM
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Konigsberg
2205 posts
#4 • 10 Y
Y by whiteawesomesun, Flash12, rjiang16, liopoil, Echoz, mathmaster2012, mathwhiz16, TaurusJ, Adventure10, Mango247
IF you're doing this for college, a college would be forgiving with a single A-. But ruining your life (and also your other grades) because of this single A- would not be good for colleges and also for your life.
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edited by Konigsberg, Jan 14, 2016, 8:30 AM
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SantaDragon
389 posts
#5 • 14 Y
Y by penguinkid88, shiningsunnyday, librian2000, adihaya, champion999, hwl0304, whatshisbucket, thatmathgeek, greenpepper9999, mathwhiz16, TaurusJ, OlympusHero, Adventure10, Mango247
Hey shiningsunnyday,

I just want to let you know, that you have my support. If you ever need anybody to talk to, I've already sent you a pm.
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Wiggle Wam
2847 posts
#7 • 9 Y
Y by whatshisbucket, Flash12, LauraZed, dantx5, mathwhiz16, champion999, OlympusHero, Adventure10, Mango247
Hi shiningsunnyday,

You have more work ethic than I ever will. You should be extremely proud of yourself.

As cliche as this may sound, I'd say the best plan of action would be slow and steady. Sleeping 3 hours a night and living off caffeine is most certainly not healthy. I think you may be at risk for burnout, and that would be a shame as you clearly have so much talent and motivation.

Here's what I'd recommend: Every day, do 4 hours of math. 5 at the most. If these hours are fully productive (no daydreaming or dawdling) that is plenty of math for one day. Then you'll have time to do well in school while still learning a great deal of math.

It just seems to me that you probably won't be able to keep up this course of action for very long, and soon you'll just break down and quit.

Finally, you mention "why would I care?" a couple of times with regard to your schoolwork. Funnily enough, the same question can be asked for the math that you're doing. Why do you do so much? Why is it becoming your life? This stuff doesn't even seem useful!

You probably do it because you love it, because it's fun and you enjoy it. Yeah, sure you think "I want to get good scores on AMC and AIME, I want to make JMO!" But if you didn't really love math, you probably wouldn't care. :P I think if you keep studying math consistently, which you obviously have no trouble doing ;), the scores will follow.

Finally, read this essay!!! http://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c5h280673_math_experiences (I'll be very surprised if you haven't encountered this yet!) Remember, the kids who make MOP and IMO usually discovered competition math in 4th grade, and they continue to study very hard throughout middle and high school. To expect to be able to reach their level in 1-2 years is a bit unrealistic. :P But that in no way means you aren't as smart as they are. :) There's still college, grad school, and math research that you can excel at. Math competitions do not define who you are as a mathematician.

I hope this helps.

-WW
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TheMaskedMagician
2955 posts
#8 • 7 Y
Y by Wiggle Wam, whatshisbucket, dantx5, Mudkipswims42, mathwhiz16, Adventure10, Mango247
I understand your pressure but kids these days are putting way way way too much pressure on themselves. Getting an A alone in APUSH is no easy feat and honestly you should be commending yourself and focusing on what you did well. If all you focus on is what others around you are doing, what they're results are, and not on whats important to you, whats the point? There are several psychology studies showing that focusing on one thing more than 3 hours a day becomes counterproductive, so do your homework and reduce your prep to 3 hours a day. Most importantly, sleep is most important. If you do prepare so much, whats to say you wont crash on the day of the AMC? All that work poured in for one single test and you had a bad day. Its not worth it. Spending every waking moment studying will not make you happier which is very important in life. If you're not happy about yourself or what you are doing, you need to identify whats causing it and reduce or eliminate it.

Are you losing self esteem because of yourself or because of what you are afraid people around you will think? Don't worry what others around you think in terms of intellectual ability because at the end of the day, no matter where, there is someone smarter than you somewhere. Your self esteem should not be built around a letter and number. You cant define yourself because you get an A here or a B there. You can identify yourself with a passion for math and physics but if contest results is all that you have fueling you, its not going to last.

With regards to college, sitting inside studying for 10 hours a day to bang out an A for APUSH or success in AMC will not necessarily get you into your dream school unless you make MOSP. For making JMO, if all you can write about is staying inside to study, well thats not an interesting topic. If you can write about your passion for math and how it affects you, now that is different.

So please, come out of the bathroom as your teacher is probably getting impatient. Stop crying, stand up straight with head high and don't pull all nighters or 3 hour sleeps for one test, one day, out of one year.
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blue8931
570 posts
#9 • 5 Y
Y by Einsteinhead, dantx5, rayfish, Adventure10, Mango247
@OP:

I can't sit here and pretend that I know what you're going through since I haven't gone through it myself, but from an objective, unbiased perspective, I think you need to stop putting so much pressure on yourself.

I think you probably realize that 3 hours of sleep and red bulls/coffee is not a healthy routine.

I believe that your work ethic is great and you don't need to lose self-esteem because of recent setbacks.

I think it would be good for you to talk to others (including friends, family, teachers, etc.) about how to cut back on the amount of time you spend doing schoolwork. I know you might not be comfortable talking to all of them, but hopefully, you can find someone who you are comfortable with. Also, if you think that you need professional help, try not to feel embarrassed about getting professional help. Who knows? It could really benefit you.

When you put pressure on yourself like that, you often end up doing worse than if you had studied less but had less pressure. Seems ironic, right?

So don't put so much pressure on yourself; you're doing great, and even though you might not believe me right now, you really are doing great. I'm not lying or exaggerating.

Just try to relax a little and not worry so much about GPA, standardized test scores, colleges, etc. I know it's tough because it seems like a very important, daunting task, but please try to relax.

I think you need to focus on yourself more; focus on being you and on being happy. I'm sure you'll get through this difficulty phase of your life and do a great job in the process. :)

If you ever need to talk, feel free to PM me.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by blue8931, Jan 15, 2016, 12:06 AM
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Wiggle Wam
2847 posts
#11 • 3 Y
Y by DeathLlama9, jh235, Adventure10
I don't think that this is the best place to troll. :(

Edit: The post has been deleted. :)
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Wiggle Wam, Jan 15, 2016, 2:11 AM
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shiningsunnyday
1350 posts
#14 • 9 Y
Y by whatshisbucket, DivideBy0, High, liopoil, dantx5, Sun13, rayfish, Adventure10, Mango247
Thanks for the advice. I'm mainly wondering if any of you guys have been in a similar situation? It's great to hear similar stories and how you guys dealt with it.

Also, I got to an American school in China and the thing is most people in my school view homework as only an obligation. Everyone study hard so they can leave China and go to college in America or someplace else, but other than that most people here are not that open. Everyone has their own clique, the two biggest ones being jocks and gamers. So basically, people live and breathe GPA everyday. Our school didn't offer math counts when I was in middle school nor is there ARML, HMMT, PuMAC, etc. (the only legit competition we do is the AMCs), so the math culture is almost nonexistent. In fact, no one has EVER qualified for the JMO/AMO in the history of my school.

So I formed "Art of Problem Solving Club" this year in hopes of changing the math culture, but I realized how nobody cares for math competitions, and are complacent just doing their homework obligations instead. Since our school doesn't have a math coach, I have to act like a "coach." As a result, people think of me as an arrogant sophomore and the club is not going well. This is why I feel so isolated, and the result of me trying to build a community of problem solvers ended up just ruining my impression further. People don't want to talk to me.

Truth is, I feel like my entire high school life has been lived behind a mask. I used to be a gamer and an anime-lover. However, I always wanted to stand out (by being funny, acting cool, etc.) As everyone began talking about college, I wanted to stand out too so my reason for living changed. I told myself, that after I get through high school, I'll get back to enjoying life. I wanted to have a flawless high school career and never look back afterwards. However, this changed when I discovered my passion for math. I at first thought math just as a college admissions tool and nothing more. However, as my passion grew, I don't even know what I want now...
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Konigsberg
2205 posts
#15 • 5 Y
Y by whatshisbucket, liopoil, dantx5, afroromanian, Adventure10
I don't think this is a very good mentality to live by: "I told myself, that after I get through high school, I'll get back to enjoying life. I wanted to have a flawless high school career and never look back afterwards."

Although I respect your effort to make the best out of your time in high school, don't think of high school as an opportunity to get into college. Rather, think about it as a place to learn (and learning doesn't stop at school!)

I've heard about the academic pressures to students in China, but I first thought that you were immune to this because you're at an international school. But it turns out that I was wrong.
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Wiggle Wam
2847 posts
#16 • 3 Y
Y by adihaya, dantx5, Adventure10
Make AoPS your community of math lovers. I see you've started a blog and intend to post math problems and updates on your progress - that's great!! Keep at it! Post on the forums that discuss specific math problems with your solutions. It may not quite be the same as hanging out with friends who love math in person, but it's the next best thing. :)
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liopoil
186 posts
#17 • 5 Y
Y by whatshisbucket, whiteawesomesun, LauraZed, dantx5, Adventure10
My situation is not really that different, except that I'm not really too worried right now. I've accepted that I'm not getting an A in APUSH (and probably not an A- either!). There are plenty of kids at my school with a 4.0, but it's quite liberating not to be one of them (In fact I never was). Ultimately:

1) Colleges don't care that much between a 4.0 or a 3.9 or even lower.
2) By freshman year of college, wherever you end up, you won't care about your high school gpa anymore nor will that 4.0 be particularly rewarding even if you get it.
3) Delving way into one topic outside of a structured school curriculum is not only very rewarding but also more helpful for you in the long run.

You seem to be slowly realizing #3. You don't care about the APUSH material and will likely forget it at the soonest opportunity. You want to do math. The only reason you aren't doing math instead of APUSH is that other people think you should be doing APUSH (or at least you think other people think that). What do you care about that though?

I'd also suggest not focusing solely on competition math. You don't want math to turn into another obligation or pressure. Ultimately what you like about math isn't the competition (you can find competition anywhere), it's the actual material. If you end up doing math beyond high school, you will find that it's really quite different from competitions. So go find a cool topic and learn about it for the sake of learning about it.

For your school club, rather then try to make them like competitions, try to convince them that math itself is cool. They won't care about doing well on the AMC or whatever unless they put some value in topic of math by itself. So maybe do some problems that you found to be particularly neat. This is what I've been doing at my school, and people have been generally interested and I haven't even mentioned any competitions.

Source: Am a highschool junior, also got a B on my APUSH midterm, also have pretty few people in my school who appreciate math, also am sort of running a math club. However, I am fairly content with my situation, which I think is because I stopped investing in standardized curricula a long time ago. I doubt I am missing out on much by not giving school the attention that it asks for. Maybe my college admissions chances will take a hit because of it, but if so then oh well, I'll get in somewhere.

Also get some sleep, sheesh. And I thought I was staying up too late...
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bearytasty
1416 posts
#18 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Hello,

I would like to say that the statement made by the above user
liopoil wrote:
1) Colleges don't care that much between a 4.0 or a 3.9 or even lower.
is false.

I know someone who got into MOP, and had a 3.85 GPA. He was rejected from all 8 Ivy Leagues.
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liopoil
186 posts
#19 • 3 Y
Y by 15Pandabears, AstroCarp, Adventure10
Hello,

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence. It turns out that colleges also do not just admit anyone who got into --prestigious program--. Further, there is no reason to conclude that GPA was the issue for this person. I like to believe that colleges actually evaluate students holistically.

EDIT: Obviously colleges do care a bit. I still claim that the time spent slaving over 0.1 GPA points could be more productively spent doing something else, not just in general but also in terms of college admissions.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by liopoil, Jan 15, 2016, 6:24 AM
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bearytasty
1416 posts
#20 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Hello,

I agree, however having a GPA lower than 3.9 can really bomb your chances of making it into top colleges. You are competing against some of the best students in the nation, who have not only made international competitions/won national contests, but also have a 4.0 GPA and a decent number of APs. However, I do agree that you should not spend that much time on school, and that the school curriculum is dumb. I agree with pretty much the rest of your post. :)
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jam10307
471 posts
#21 • 3 Y
Y by bearytasty, Adventure10, Mango247
Hello,

As much as I hate to say it, but school is important, and you shouldn't have like a 3.0 GPA. (I know its an overstatement, but just look at the graph)
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bearytasty
1416 posts
#22 • 3 Y
Y by jam10307, Adventure10, Mango247
Hello,

Indeed, your GPA/SAT scores are the first thing colleges look at. If you have a GPA of < 3.6 or a SAT score of < 2000 (depends on your nationality), you have pretty much a 0.00000000000000000001% chance of getting in unless you have mindblowing accomplishments, or get a recommendation letter from the President or something. So your GPA is actually important. While a GPA of 3.5 and 3.6 won't make much of a difference when applying to top colleges (because they're both wayyy too low), a GPA of 3.9 VS 4.0 can really make or break your admission result. (Especially if you're on the edge...)
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edited by bearytasty, Jan 15, 2016, 6:39 AM
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liopoil
186 posts
#24 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Hello,

It is hard to tell exactly what fraction of the dots are green/blue around the 3.8-4.0 range. I don't think OP is likely to fall out of that range (and neither am I). I'm sure that there is a bit of a drop off in your chances for each 0.1 from 3.8-4.0, but who can say how big it really is. I believe that this drop is smaller than you are suggesting, but exactly how much is just semantics. Also in spending less time on grades you are likely strengthening other parts of your application, making up for it a little.

And then there is the issue about how much one really ought to care about getting into you first choice college. Obviously this varies by person, but it's not like it irrevocably determines your future. But this is distracting from the main point, which is that shiningsunnyday is focusing on gpa to the point that it is unhealthy.

EDIT: Funnily enough I have been writing these posts while I ought to be doing homework!
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by liopoil, Jan 15, 2016, 6:47 AM
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muti66
931 posts
#25 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
First of all, realize that it is okay if you fail. I have done so multiple times, and have felt the way you feel(though not as drastic). While taking tests I got extremely nervous and rushed the test. As a result, I got a lot wrong. Don't worry, it isn't the end of the world if you get an A-. I consider myself a good student, and I find it hard to balance competitive math and school at the end of a semester. This is normal, and nothing to fret about, especially in high school. Though the depression is a whole different thing. Try to talk to your friends, do something fun for a change, and cool down. There is no use cramming upon cramming. 3 hours of sleep is WAY too little. Take a break. It is good to not study and get good sleep anyways.
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spartan168
1472 posts
#28 • 3 Y
Y by rkm0959, Adventure10, Mango247
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
Hello,

I agree, however having a GPA lower than 3.9 can really bomb your chances of making it into top colleges. You are competing against some of the best students in the nation, who have not only made international competitions/won national contests, but also have a 4.0 GPA and a decent number of APs. However, I do agree that you should not spend that much time on school, and that the school curriculum is dumb. I agree with pretty much the rest of your post. :)

I respectfully disagree. Colleges don't look at you as GPAs and test scores, they really do look at you as a person. If you look at jam's graph, look at the people who got rejected with amazing SAT scores and GPAs. They want to see what you can bring to the table besides your academic ability, which pretty much the majority of the people applying have. They want to see what sets you apart, what you are really passionate about.

So @OP, don't stress too much about grades if you are a 3.7+ because in the end, it doesn't matter as much. Focus more on your extracurriculars where you can stand out more as an individual rather than in GPA or test scores, which everyone has.
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bearytasty
1416 posts
#29 • 3 Y
Y by whiteawesomesun, Adventure10, Mango247
Quote:
If you look at jam's graph, look at the people who got rejected with amazing SAT scores and GPAs.
And your point is? Look at how many more people with lower SAT/GPAs got rejected than those with 4.0 GPAs or 2400 SAT scores. GPA and SAT scores are definitely important. But it sounds like you're claiming that SAT and GPAs are not important, and that is unfortunately wrong.
Quote:
Colleges don't look at you as GPAs and test scores
Except you have forgotten the fact that if your test scores are too low or your GPA cannot compete with other applicants, your application may not even be reviewed fully. If there are other people with similar achievements and a similar resume but have a GPA that is like 0.1 or 0.2 above yours or have a SAT score of like 200-300 points more than you, they're gonna blow you out of the water. I personally don't like hearing this - I don't like school, but you can't go applying to MIT with a 3.7 and 2000 SAT and expect to get in. Unless you are a genius or have some outstanding criteria, I'm sorry. Your SAT and GPA is like the fundamental building block to your structure. You can have a very nice building made with the strongest materials in the world, but if its made on sand, it's not going to stand for very long. That's the unfortunate truth.
Quote:
They want to see what sets you apart, what you are really passionate about.
Yes, that is the second way colleges can decide if a person will be accepted or not. Since basically a lot of the applicants to the top colleges have high scores, they have to resort to looking at your other achievements to know where to draw the line. But if your GPA and SAT can't compete with the other applicants, there's an extremely low chance you're going to get in, regardless of your other achievements. (This is assuming of course that the other applicants have similar or better achievements and stuff. And remember if you are applying to a top college, you are competing against people who have won IMO gold or made MOP.)

I believe a lot of people don't like what I have to say, and personally I don't like it either. But this is how the college application process goes. Downvote all you want, you're not going to change the criteria of the college admission officers.
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spartan168
1472 posts
#30 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
Quote:
If you look at jam's graph, look at the people who got rejected with amazing SAT scores and GPAs.
And your point is? Look at how many more people with lower SAT/GPAs got rejected than those with 4.0 GPAs or 2400 SAT scores. GPA and SAT scores are definitely important. But it sounds like you're claiming that SAT and GPAs are not important, and that is unfortunately wrong.
Quote:
Colleges don't look at you as GPAs and test scores
Except you have forgotten the fact that if your test scores are too low or your GPA cannot compete with other applicants, your application may not even be reviewed fully. If there are other people with similar achievements and a similar resume but have a GPA that is like 0.1 or 0.2 above yours or have a SAT score of like 200-300 points more than you, they're gonna blow you out of the water. I personally don't like hearing this - I don't like school, but you can't go applying to MIT with a 3.7 and 2000 SAT and expect to get in. Unless you are a genius or have some outstanding criteria, I'm sorry. Your SAT and GPA is like the fundamental building block to your structure. You can have a very nice building made with the strongest materials in the world, but if its made on sand, it's not going to stand for very long. That's the unfortunate truth.
Quote:
They want to see what sets you apart, what you are really passionate about.
Yes, that is the second way colleges can decide if a person will be accepted or not. Since basically a lot of the applicants to the top colleges have high scores, they have to resort to looking at your other achievements to know where to draw the line. But if your GPA and SAT can't compete with the other applicants, there's an extremely low chance you're going to get in, regardless of your other achievements. (This is assuming of course that the other applicants have similar or better achievements and stuff. And remember if you are applying to a top college, you are competing against people who have won IMO gold or made MOP.)

I believe a lot of people don't like what I have to say, and personally I don't like it either. But this is how the college application process goes. Downvote all you want, you're not going to change the criteria of the college admission officers.

You are right in the fact that it is important to a certain extent but when you reach the threshold, you don't need to do much more than that. A 3.7+ is good enough and around a 2100-2200+ is good enough. They are definitely important but a 4.0 isn't a lot greater than a 3.9 the same way that a 2400 is lot better than a 2300. These numbers just say if you would be academically prepared for the school. After you reach a certain point, you do not need to worry about a 2300 vs a 2400 or a 3.9 vs a 4.0
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blasterboy
1172 posts
#31 • 3 Y
Y by champion999, Adventure10, Mango247
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
If there are other people with similar achievements and a similar resume but have a GPA that is like 0.1 or 0.2 above yours or have a SAT score of like 200-300 points more than you, they're gonna blow you out of the water.

Also, please do not speak for everyone. I'm sure there are people who would disagree, especially if they have shown exceptional talent elsewhere, perhaps at math olympiads or other subjects. The very top colleges such as MIT will not reject a USAMO winner with a 2000 SAT score and accept one with a 2400.

I would like to highlight that it is only necessary to improve GPA and SAT scores up to a certain point, especially if it comes at the cost of time you could be spending on more meaningful (this is subjective) things. Most people, especially those on AOPS, have the capability to reach those levels with a reasonable amount of effort and more wisely invest in the rest of their time.
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edited by blasterboy, Jan 15, 2016, 8:18 AM
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bearytasty
1416 posts
#32 • 3 Y
Y by spartan168, Adventure10, Mango247
blasterboy wrote:
Also, please do not speak for everyone. I'm sure there are people who would disagree, especially if they have shown exceptional talent elsewhere, perhaps at math olympiads or other subjects. MIT is not going to reject a USAMO winner with a 2000 and accept one with a 2400.

I said "similar achievements and a similar resume". A USAMO winner has extremely different achievements than an average person. Also, if both were USAMO winners, and had similar personalities and such, the 2400 one would definitely be a stronger applicant than the one with a 2000. Also MIT has rejected some IMO medalists before, so I believe you are the one that should not be speaking for the MIT admission officers.

I would say a 3.7+ is not sufficient for top colleges. But I definitely agree with your point that after some threshold they no longer become super useful. Like a 2320 vs 2350 on the SAT won't make that big of a difference. (But of course a perfect score looks a lot better.)
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spartan168
1472 posts
#33 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
@above

College Essays and Interviews are very important too. They can increase but they can also decrease one's chances of getting in. These two aspects of the college application process can seriously affect the outcome (Rejected/Waitlisted/Accepted).
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mathwizard888
1635 posts
#34 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Really, the difference between 3.9 and 4.0 is not that much, and colleges will always pick a 3.9 who made TST (or a similar achievement) over a 4.0 with no achievements. If a college is considering two people with similar achievements (as in, really good achievements), with their only difference being a 3.9 versus a 4.0, I would say that the college is inclined to accept both. You obviously can't get like a 3.7, but the OP doesn't seem in any real danger of that happening.
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hy2015
1425 posts
#35 • 3 Y
Y by Wiggle Wam, spartan168, Adventure10
You are a sophomore, you still have 2 years. 11th grade is actually the most important year the colleges look at. My brother did poorly in 10th grade, (a few B's) but immediately caught up in 11th and 12th grade. He wasn't attending math competitions either. I can say that he wasn't working as hard as you are. But either way, he end up attending a good college and he is doing very well.
Since he was in a boring high school, my parents didn't have much control over his grads, but he knew he had to be better.
@shiningsunnyday, I believe that intensive study is not effective. I tried that with a few test, and end up getting C/B's. You need to sleep more. When you don't sleep, your brain doesn't work that well. Try sleeping at least 7 hours. Do well in school. Don't let school interfere with your math life.
Hope this helped :)
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djmathman
7936 posts
#36 • 14 Y
Y by spartan168, LauraZed, mathwizard888, anantmudgal09, bluecarneal, Wave-Particle, liopoil, greenpepper9999, 15Pandabears, v_Enhance, TheOneYouWant, afroromanian, Adventure10, Mango247
This whole discussion reminds me of a very good quote from a very good essay:
Quote:
If I had to go through high school again, I'd treat it like a day job. I don't mean that I'd slack in school. Working at something as a day job doesn't mean doing it badly. It means not being defined by it. I mean I wouldn't think of myself as a high school student, just as a musician with a day job as a waiter doesn't think of himself as a waiter. [3] And when I wasn't working at my day job I'd start trying to do real work.

I think this is the right mentality to have. On one hand, of course you want to do well in school - that's a given. However, if focusing on math is what moves you, then focus on math! Allowing yourself to become immersed in what truly makes you happy can be not only rewarding but also emotionally healing in itself. My high school years were quite awful (more so than I realized while during high school), but I can say with $p>0.8$ chance that without the motivation of math contests, I would have been a much less happy student during those four years, and for that, I am eternally grateful.

Also, with regards to college admissions, I agree most with
spartan168 wrote:
You are right in the fact that it is important to a certain extent but when you reach the threshold, you don't need to do much more than that. A 3.7+ is good enough and around a 2100-2200+ is good enough. They are definitely important but a 4.0 isn't a lot greater than a 3.9 the same way that a 2400 is lot better than a 2300. These numbers just say if you would be academically prepared for the school. After you reach a certain point, you do not need to worry about a 2300 vs a 2400 or a 3.9 vs a 4.0
There definitely exists a threshold after which increases in stats are fairly negligible. Think of it as a margin of error - stuff happens sometimes (in particular SAT scores are much more punishing toward the top end of the spectrum in order to maintain a somewhat-normal distribution - yes, the SAT curves!) so what's the purpose of a college who rejects a student based off of a few silly mistakes? It would be analogous to if the USAMO only accepted individuals who earned a 270+ index - sure, the contest would become much more prestigious, but at the same time factors such as test-day stress, subject distribution, and careless mistakes become orders of magnitude more influential. (This is definitely noticeable when comparing orientation sessions for different level colleges - when I visited an information session for one of my safety schools, about 75% of the parent questions were related to SAT and ACT scores; when I visited the information session for CMU, the percentage of questions related to tests dropped to about $\epsilon$. My parents think that this is because at top-tier schools high SAT scores are assumed, I think that this is because at these institutions SAT scores are less influential in overall college decisions. I guess we'll agree to disagree here :) )

Here's a post I wrote about a month ago which I think might be important here as well:
djmathman wrote:
Yea, what amplreneo said. More specifically, colleges want to make sure that you as a prospective student can be a valuable contributor to campus. It's not just related to, say, grades and SAT scores, although those certainly do help.

The best advice I can give is basically the same: to find something you enjoy and work passionately on it. That way, you'll have a strong resume for colleges without even focusing on the end goal of college, which is a win-win situation!

(As a personal example, not counting honor societies (which aren't really a good comparison test here since my high school seems to have way too many??) I only participated in three extracurricular activities - orchestra, Math League, and Science Olympiad - but I concentrated on those three and made sure I got experiences out of them, which IMO made for a more genuine and authentic application.)

(It's also important to note that the end result in non-extreme cases doesn't affect anything too much - this is another argument against purposely building up your appearance toward colleges for the sake of doing so. I myself didn't get into MIT (waitlisted and then deferred), but hell, I'm genuinely happy where I am right now, so who cares?)
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Wave-Particle
3690 posts
#37 • 4 Y
Y by librian2000, spartan168, Adventure10, Mango247
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
blasterboy wrote:
Also, please do not speak for everyone. I'm sure there are people who would disagree, especially if they have shown exceptional talent elsewhere, perhaps at math olympiads or other subjects. MIT is not going to reject a USAMO winner with a 2000 and accept one with a 2400.
Also MIT has rejected some IMO medalists before, so I believe you are the one that should not be speaking for the MIT admission officers.

I don't think any of us have the ability to speak for the MIT admission officers ;). Also who said the IMO medalists were rejected due to GPA? There are many things schools like MIT consider, maybe there was something else that MIT didn't like about them and I would think these cases are rather rare. Usually people that make the IMO won't have such low GPAs anyway. I don't know which IMO medalists you are talking about but I doubt that there exist more than 5 or so in recent years. See this post for further evidence: http://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c172h1124357 I am not denying the importance of GPA, but I feel strongly that statements
like these :
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
If you have a GPA of < 3.6 or a SAT score of < 2000 (depends on your nationality), you have pretty much a 0.00000000000000000001% chance of getting in
are false. I know of quite a few examples that went below this GPA and still made it. An SAT score below 2000 is probably not going to make it but 2200 range is still in the competition.
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
I believe a lot of people don't like what I have to say, and personally I don't like it either. But this is how the college application process goes. Downvote all you want, you're not going to change the criteria of the college admission officers.

Again, you don't know how the admissions office works, only the MIT admissions office knows. I am not saying any of my information is right and but I would advise
people not to spend so much time worrying about getting close to a perfect GPA, read djmathman's post and do real work.
mathawesomeness777 wrote:
I would say a 3.7+ is not sufficient for top colleges. But I definitely agree with your point that after some threshold they no longer become super useful. Like a 2320 vs 2350 on the SAT won't make that big of a difference. (But of course a perfect score looks a lot better.)

I wouldn't say so...I know of a couple of people with around 3.8 as a GPA that made MIT because of other activities that they were very successful at.
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This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by Wave-Particle, Jan 16, 2016, 12:07 AM
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hotstuffFTW
3233 posts
#38 • 2 Y
Y by Dude156, Adventure10
One of my classmates made it into Brown with a ~3.7 gpa but got in most likely due to the fact that they also are a swimmer for a while. This means that you shouldn't fuss if you don't get a 4.0 due to a ridiculously hard, but useless in our case, class such as APUSH; it's a certain fact that grades aren't the only factor in college admissions. I encourage you [the OP] to try and do some other activities such as sports or music and try to make yourself happy. I don't mean to say you should quit math and do other things, I'm saying that you should take maybe 2-3 days off and try something new.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by hotstuffFTW, Jan 16, 2016, 12:12 AM
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hy2015
1425 posts
#39 • 6 Y
Y by greenpepper9999, Wiggle Wam, whiteawesomesun, spartan168, Adventure10, Mango247
In order to get to a good college, you not only have to have good grades, but also a talent. Like you are good at a sport or something. So even if you have a 4.0gpa, there is still a possibility you won't get in. For example, person 1 has a 4.0gpa with no talent. You have a 3.8 gpa but you are crazy good at soccer. The school will choose you, even if your grade is not the best. Do you have a talent? Math could be the one. Then you should work on math.

Kind of Personal experience: My brother's friend have good grades, and was also a member of the Canadian National Junior Swim Team or something. So you compete with different countries. She got into Stanford. Stanford's acception rate is like 5% or below, the lowest in all ivy league schools.

When I asked her how to get in, she said you need a talent (or something you are really good at, way better than others) and good grades. I think for you, your talent is math, so keep up the good work in math! Work hard for JMO. That will definitely make you a better candidate for college. As I said, you can even have 3.8 gpa or 2300 SAT.

Most important is talent. Don't let school interfere with your math. You are good in math, and there is a way to work around that will make you win JMO while doing well in school.
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Dude156
676 posts
#40 • 3 Y
Y by Flash12, Adventure10, Mango247
In the competitive world of America, you need to be good at other stuff (other than school) to get a good college (A quote from my parents...). This is because a lot of people are good at school homework, tests, etc. and have no lives other than that. Now if you are good at math competitions, that is a really big plus point to your chances of making a good college (you are "unique" ,which is what colleges want). The same applies for swimming or any other extra curricular sport. Anyone can be good at school- but not everyone can be good at thinking. I know peeps who have circa 4.4 GPA and don't make Ivy league, while mathletes who have 3.7 GPA and do. So keep working your AMC skillz.
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NewAlbionAcademy
910 posts
#41 • 13 Y
Y by jam10307, whatshisbucket, 15Pandabears, djmathman, spartan168, MSTang, Wave-Particle, mathwizard888, mathmaster2012, champion999, v_Enhance, rayfish, Adventure10
It looks like the discussion has mostly changed from - advice to shiningsunnyday - to - how much do colleges care about GPA. I think we should try to stay more on topic, especially since the OP has been willing to share so much that is going on in his/her life.

That being said, firstly, I would like to agree with the others who urged you to get more sleep. It simply is not worth sacrificing your physical health to "succeed" in either school or math competitions. Given your work ethic, you don't need to be worrying about not trying hard enough. But it looks like you have decided to screw school and just focus on your passion: math. This is good to some extent, but I would still encourage you to focus in school. You are still young, and it is important to broaden your horizons and see what others have to teach you, even if your passion is set. So I think you should try to balance math, school, and sleep as well as other things, instead of just focusing on math. I know how people can be engrossed by math and try to make it the purpose of their lives, but frankly I think this is taking it too far for high schoolers. Also, try to talk to your parents/counselors/friends, and take their advice seriously. I know it is hard, and I feel like a hypocrite while writing this, but they really want to help you and they hold important perspectives you don't.
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shiningsunnyday
1350 posts
#42 • 18 Y
Y by librian2000, rkm0959, whatshisbucket, champion999, hotstuffFTW, mathwizard888, Einsteinhead, liopoil, jam10307, spartan168, MSTang, muti66, Mudkipswims42, 15Pandabears, paperplates, adihaya, rayfish, Adventure10
Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate the different perspectives. Some of you guys say I should just keep training my passion for math, while others say that GPA is still the most important. I agree with both. As AoPSers we may incline more towards the former, as each of us here has a passion for math which bounds us together. However, I have to admit the hard cold truth that the stats show that GPA is still the most important factor in college admissions in general. Heck, if I could change US education my first step is to get rid of the very concept of representing the entire 17-18 years of someone's life in just a few numbers. I have learned the hard way that our true struggles and efforts mean much, much more, and there're factors that colleges will never see just based on a couple of numbers.

I know that the AMCs are just around the corner, and hearing some of your advice, I'm motivated to qualify for the JMO as much as ever. Ever since I met you guys you guys have been like family. The reason AoPS is what it is today is because of our common passion for math, and because of you guys I've learned to be myself rather than try to wear a mask of trying to be someone who I'm not just to look good in front of college admission officers or my classmates. There're factors we can't control, so I hope that we live up to our true selves and not let these factors get in our way.

I'm feeling better about my physical and mental issues. I'll have to change my time organization, my mindset, my relationships at school, and my studying habits up considerably. But I'm not letting any of this get in the way until after the AIME.

I wish all of you best of luck in your contest goals this year, and remember, no matter what gets in the way, be appreciative of this wonderful community and math on!

Through PM request, I have locked this topic. ~dj
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by djmathman, Jan 16, 2016, 3:52 PM
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