HCSSiM Math Jam
Go back to the Math Jam ArchiveHampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics Co-director sarah-marie belcastro will discuss the Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics program with students, parents, and teachers.
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Facilitator: sarah-marie belcastro
MCrawford (19:29:19)
HCSSiM Math Jam
MCrawford (19:29:26)
Greetings and welcome to tonight's HCSSiM Math Jam.
MCrawford (19:29:34)
Sarah-Marie Belcastro is here to help students get an idea of what the HCSSiM has to offer young problem solvers and students of mathematics. She can also answer questions regarding the HCSSiM.
MCrawford (19:29:41)
I wanted to attend HCSSiM when I was in high school and knew several who did and had a wonderful time.
MCrawford (19:29:46)
Before I turn the floor over to her I would like to briefly explain our classroom to students who have not previously attended.
MCrawford (19:29:52)
First of all, this classroom is moderated. This means that the messages you type will come to the instructors rather than going directly into the room. The instructors will choose some of the messages and questions to share with all of the students.
MCrawford (19:30:02)
Next, only the instructors have the ability to send private messages in the classroom. Sometimes they will use these to respond to your comments.
MCrawford (19:30:40)
At this time I will turn the floor over to Sarah-Marie.
smbelcas (19:30:52)
Hi, all!
smbelcas (19:31:09)
I too wish I were an alumn, but I'm not; I hadn't heard of HCSSiM when I was in high school.
snorkack (19:31:01)
Hi there.
smbelcas (19:32:00)
To answer lkryptonicl's question... well.. actually, I'm not quite sure what the question is. Does AoPS Vol. 2 help with what? Learning mathematics? Definitely.
lkryptonicl (19:32:30)
will it help me with ARML?
smbelcas (19:32:57)
I have no clue, as I don't write or do ARML questions.
smbelcas (19:33:57)
But generally, working on problem-solving skills through AoPS books, fora (I think that's the plural of 'forum'), and intensive summer programs, will help with contests of all kinds.
enachum (19:33:46)
What is ARML?
smbelcas (19:34:36)
It's the American Regions Mathematics League (not the topic of tonight's Jam) and you can find it at www.arml.com
snorkack (19:34:39)
Ah. I was surprised to be able to do contests after HCSSiM. It was quite handy.
lkryptonicl (19:35:03)
cool!!!
smbelcas (19:35:23)
I guess that means you should apply to HCSSiM, lkryptonicl...
Fermatprime (19:35:34)
Plus you appreciate stuff like: ""Apparently the problems committee for IMO 1995 was known as the 'Problem Interpolation Group (P.I.G.)'"" (I was looking over IMO Shortlist problems...)
enachum (19:35:36)
Can one who is going to the freshmen year of the high school join this program?
smbelcas (19:35:55)
Yup! Absolutely.
smbelcas (19:36:14)
snorkack attended after the first year of high school, for example.
lkryptonicl (19:36:14)
how do you join this program
lkryptonicl (19:36:16)
?
smbelcas (19:37:07)
Apply online at www.hcssim.org (there's a link in the left sidebar to start the application); it's fun, free, fast, and doable even while pursuing other options.
smbelcas (19:37:26)
Plus, if you don't apply, you may experience boredom and drowsiness. And you don't get to see the Interesting Test.
enachum (19:37:20)
Is there any pre-requisite in math?
smbelcas (19:38:00)
Nope. No specific prerequisites. We do expect mathematical creativity/maturity, which is what we attempt to measure via the Interesting Test.
lkryptonicl (19:38:24)
if i do hcssim will i be able to make it past the AIME's?
smbelcas (19:38:55)
That depends on you; this year, we had twelve alumns qualify for the USAMO.
snorkack (19:38:49)
that's not the point of HCSSiM
Fermatprime (19:38:52)
I did this year, after not being able to last year. I credit HCSSiM in part.
snorkack (19:39:16)
I didn't
enachum (19:39:08)
Can we visit the student during these weeks? when?
smbelcas (19:40:03)
Parental visits are discouraged.
smbelcas (19:40:15)
Generally we request that visitors be approved eight months in advance.
snorkack (19:40:21)
students can send a ton of email
smbelcas (19:40:44)
Students are usually too busy to receive visitors, as well.
enachum (19:40:51)
even on Sundays?
smbelcas (19:41:22)
I'll let the alumns field that one.
snorkack (19:41:09)
when we arrived, Kelly said, ""If you promised your parents that you would call them right when you arrived and you haven't yet, try to call them within the next week or so"" (This was a joke, and phones are quite available)
snorkack (19:41:33)
Sundays are sometimes when you sleep
Ciaccona (19:41:08)
How much math has a student generally had before attending? I'm currently in eighth grade, and will take 3rd semsester calculus next fall, but I haven't really problem solving. (State-level MathCounts, limited proof-based competitions such as UW Talent Search). I know you just said that there's no prerequisite, but I really would prefer to have a solid background before attending anything too strenuous.
smbelcas (19:42:15)
So, Ciaccona, I think you've done a lot of problem solving if you've done two semesters of calculus.
smbelcas (19:42:42)
Approximately half of the students invited to attend HCSSiM have had calculus before.
smbelcas (19:43:06)
We do not have any contest focus.
snorkack (19:42:47)
You don't really need to know anything before you arrive, but you need to be able to think (and it appears that you can)
snorkack (19:42:11)
On the weekend we have to do the Program Journal, which details what you did during the week, and there are other cool activities like the hike
Ciaccona (19:43:21)
I meant subjects such as number theory - haven't has much of that stuff. My teachers weren't really prepared to deal with anything except what was in the textbooks.
smbelcas (19:43:57)
Number Theory is one of the many mathematical subjects discussed during workshop (that's the first three weeks of HCSSiM).
smbelcas (19:44:18)
You are not expected to have learned any college-level mathematics before attending HCSSiM.
smbelcas (19:44:48)
As snorkack observes, you appear to be the sort of student who would fit right in at HCSSiM.
snorkack (19:44:40)
workshop attempts to bring students all to the same level
smbelcas (19:45:28)
Most HCSSiM folks have the same experience (with teachers unprepared to do things outside the curriculum) as you have.
Ciaccona (19:45:43)
Ah, fun. I shall apply.
smbelcas (19:45:57)
Please do. I'll look for your application.
snorkack (19:45:54)
Yay!!
Fermatprime (19:46:19)
yay, we got 1!
kimby_102 (19:46:24)
How much is this cost??
smbelcas (19:47:36)
The comprehensive fee for HCSSiM for this summer is $2159. We also offer financial aid for those who need it, and in the last 33 years I think there have been perhaps two students who weren't able to attend because of financial need.
snorkack (19:47:06)
2159 = 1700 + 289 + 170
lkryptonicl (19:48:22)
thats so much money
smbelcas (19:48:52)
True, it's lots of money, but also cheaper than most of the other national-level summer programs.
snorkack (19:48:33)
My mom got a ton of financial aid when she was a student
snorkack (19:48:42)
other places cost more
Ciaccona (19:48:49)
Who picked the number 17? I've noticed that it's the 'special' number.
smbelcas (19:49:36)
'Picked' might not be quite the correct descriptor, but the answer to 'who' would be David Kelly, founder of HCSSiM
snorkack (19:49:18)
17 exists by itself
kimby_102 (19:49:27)
Well, you can also get scholarchips from
kimby_102 (19:49:37)
MuAlphaTheta
smbelcas (19:50:02)
Yes, and last year we had a student partially supported by M.A.T.
Fermatprime (19:49:46)
and Mike Spivak
smbelcas (19:50:08)
...no...
smbelcas (19:50:22)
you're confusing the yellow pig with seventeen.
Fermatprime (19:50:29)
(not the scholarships) I thought he had something to do with 17 too
smbelcas (19:50:50)
Not that I know of...
kimby_102 (19:50:41)
I believe M.A.T grants up to 2000 for summer program.
smbelcas (19:51:08)
Really? That's great! How does one apply for that money?
smbelcas (19:51:46)
(I'd like to be able to tell those students we invite about it...)
kimby_102 (19:51:38)
You just go to their website. I will post it in a second.
kimby_102 (19:53:03)
The site is www.mualphatheta.org
smbelcas (19:55:42)
...
smbelcas (19:56:19)
So, alumns, what should we tell people about HCSSiM?
snorkack (19:56:32)
It's really cool! The staff are fun.
snorkack (19:56:51)
There are small classes (I hope) with about three staff per class
Fermatprime (19:56:54)
hmm. well, this year is going to be HCSSiM 34...which is cool...but somewhat irrelevant.
smbelcas (19:57:44)
Classes are usually in the 12 - 14 range, with three staff members (one a math professor, one a grad student, one an undergrad, usually)
smbelcas (19:57:56)
Classes never get larger than 17 students.
snorkack (19:57:34)
The junior staff, though usually inexperienced at teaching, are smart, hard-working, friendly, knowledgable, and helpful
snorkack (19:57:41)
The senior staff are just awesome
Fermatprime (19:59:05)
also, many guests and alumni give hour-long talks at 17:00, which are typically great
smbelcas (19:59:33)
Oh, yes---and this year, we will have a conference as part of the program. It'll be a 3-ish day mathematics conference.
smbelcas (19:59:59)
We just got confirmation that alumn Eric Lander (1974) who directs the Broad Institute at MIT (y'know, the Human Genome Project) will be speaking.
lkryptonicl (19:59:04)
where is HCSSiM?
smbelcas (20:00:14)
Amherst, Massachusetts.
smbelcas (20:00:45)
It's on the Hampshire College campus, which is right near the campuses of Smith College, Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke College, and UMass Amherst.
smbelcas (20:00:52)
They're called The Five Colleges.
snorkack (19:59:25)
We get a lot of interaction with the staff outside class: all the meals are together, and we can play frisbee and stuff in the afternoon
snorkack (20:00:58)
although the bus doesn't run in the summer
smbelcas (20:01:50)
...that's not quite true. It runs really infrequently in the summer. But HCSSiM has a van and as long as there are willing staff, you can be driven to other colleges and such.
Fermatprime (20:02:33)
plus the staff doesn't ""teach down"" to the students. their speaking styles are pretty much exactly the same outside of the program...as far as I can tell...
smbelcas (20:02:47)
That's absolutely true.
snorkack (20:03:07)
s-m views students as adults, according to her
Bobby Jacobs (20:03:49)
Hi!
smbelcas (20:04:28)
It's not just me, but all the staff members. I've seen many junior and senior staff give professional talks, and I've seen some of them teach college students etc.... the speaking styles are the same.
smbelcas (20:04:50)
In fact, it's been said by alumns that there's a ""Hampshire style"" of giving math talks.
snorkack (20:04:32)
The program is small enough that you know everyone; in fact, sarah-marie could name everyone the first evening
enachum (20:04:31)
What's the PRIME TIME THEOREM?
smbelcas (20:05:18)
The Prime Time Theorem is the daily mathematics talk, given at the Prime Time of 17:00 (and afterwards, we go to dinner).
smbelcas (20:05:50)
We have four hours of class in the morning, then recreation in the afternoon, then the PTT, then dinner, a short break, and problem sessions.
smbelcas (20:06:12)
Well, except on Wednesdays when we have mathematics movies before problem session, and Saturday evenings there isn't a problem session.
smbelcas (20:06:17)
But there are classes on Saturday mornings.
Bobby Jacobs (20:05:50)
I like primes.
snorkack (20:06:19)
We have quiet time at 11:17, which is a good thing, because then you can sleep
smbelcas (20:07:18)
Primes are awesome. And there are infinitely many of them!
Bobby Jacobs (20:06:51)
Does anybody know about 01:02:03 on 04/05/06.
snorkack (20:07:39)
I was in a class called ""Patterns Among the Primes""; lots of people like primes
Ciaccona (20:08:23)
Yes - I stayed up for it.
smbelcas (20:08:43)
Darn! I missed it!
smbelcas (20:09:01)
(totally slipped my mind...)
smiley (20:08:48)
How many people do you accept into the camp?
smbelcas (20:09:29)
We invite 40 - 50 students each year.
smbelcas (20:09:57)
But, it's technically not a camp (by State of Massachusetts regulations).
snorkack (20:10:08)
except when you accept a different number; it varies
Bobby Jacobs (20:11:54)
How old do you have to be to go to the camp? I am 12 and live in Virginia.
smbelcas (20:12:23)
We do not have age limits. Most participants attend after their sophomore or junior years of high school, however.
smbelcas (20:13:22)
Bobby, I encourage you to apply (free! fun! obligationless! doable online at www.hcssim.org!) and continue the getting-to-know-each-other process.
snorkack (20:12:55)
There were a lot of people last year who had just finished their freshman years
enachum (20:12:57)
Would one be taught the subjects from the basics? because things like four-dimensional geometry and dynamics I haven't even touched.
smbelcas (20:13:48)
As it turns out, we will have a class this year which includes four-dimensional geometry.
smbelcas (20:14:15)
In some years, we have a class on dynamics. Actually, we usually have one, but it varies as to whether it's a week-long class or a 3-week class.
smiley (20:13:11)
About how many younger students do you accept?
smbelcas (20:14:50)
We don't have particular proportions of younger/older students in mind when we invite students to HCSSiM.
snorkack (20:13:53)
four-dimensional geometry?? eek that sounds hard
smbelcas (20:15:25)
snorkack, I can almost guarantee that if you are invited to HCSSiM this summer, you'll be taking that class.
smbelcas (20:15:43)
It will be a three-week course in higher-dimensional convex geometry.
smbelcas (20:15:58)
I'll be teaching it, most likely with Emily Peters (grad student at Berkeley).
Ciaccona (20:15:32)
But fun, you must admit. Though rather hard to visualize or draw.
smbelcas (20:16:52)
It's not _so_ bad to draw in 4D. On the other hand, 5D is quite a challenge...
snorkack (20:16:31)
I can't even visualize three dimensions
smbelcas (20:17:07)
All the more reason to take the class and learn!
snorkack (20:17:24)
We can use colored chalk! I can draw with both hands in different colors.
smbelcas (20:20:03)
I'm not sure how much colored chalk will help when we're discussing general n dimensions.
smbelcas (20:21:54)
There will likely be a 3-week class on Probability (or maybe on Dynamical Systems) and one on Origami and Combinatorial Geometry.
smbelcas (20:22:27)
... and there will be a ton of one-week classes with topics yet to be determined (but requests are always welcome).
snorkack (20:22:10)
what does ""Dynamical Systems"" mean?
smbelcas (20:22:55)
It's the study of iterating functions, and the differences in behavior that various points have under the iteration.
smbelcas (20:23:30)
There are points that don't do much, points that are periodic, and those that behave chaotically.
smbelcas (20:23:49)
This behavior depends on the function one is looking at, of course.
smbelcas (20:24:05)
Fractals are part of the study of dynamical systems.
Fermatprime (20:23:57)
we touched on dynamics in kelly's workshop last year.
snorkack (20:23:41)
I remember doing stuff like that in BASIC. We get to use computers, including (I think) Mathematica, for math stuff.
smbelcas (20:25:27)
By the way, I'm not sure that the description ""points that are periodic"" was clear. What I mean is that there are some points which, when one applies a function to them repeatedly, end up landing on the same few points over and over and over...
snorkack (20:25:05)
(you can also use computers for non-math stuff, only not during class and not too loudly)
snorkack (20:26:37)
One student last year animated messages using polygons in Mathematica. It was so cool
smbelcas (20:27:17)
Yes, and we (meaning myself and senior staff member Tom Hull) showed that animation to the Mathematica developers at the Joint Mathematics Meetings in January.
Fermatprime (20:29:11)
which is not something you hear from most summer math programs.
smbelcas (20:29:38)
Math Jams usually last about an hour. It's been an hour now, but I'm happy to keep the room open as long as there are questions and comments.
snorkack (20:30:27)
In class, s-m goes around to each person periodically to ask if he/she has a question. It's great, because then you can't get lost. (This is on the topic of questions)
smbelcas (20:30:51)
I'm not the only HCSSiM staff member who does this.
smbelcas (20:32:05)
All HCSSiM instructors teach in a very interactive way.
snorkack (20:32:12)
Oh yes, this is true.
snorkack (20:32:47)
Kids are constantly running up to the board and drawing weird diagrams.
smbelcas (20:33:20)
Yes, and writing out proofs and sketching out ideas and...
Ciaccona (20:33:48)
That's awesome. I've been doing independent study for two years, because my middle school ran out of math for me, so having a good, interactive teacher would be...different. Especially because next year at the university, it looks like my lecture will have hundreds of students.
smbelcas (20:34:30)
It's really difficult to be interactive when there are more than 60 or so students in a room.
smiley (20:33:50)
What kind of things do you want for the ""friendly letter"" part of the online application?
smbelcas (20:35:27)
We'd like a glimpse at your personality, especially your mathematical personality. It's a chance for you to help us get to know you better.
snorkack (20:35:28)
Two years ago I wrote in my friendly letter that I didn't like math. Then my mom yelled at me. I like math now, though.
smbelcas (20:35:57)
Applicants say all sorts of interesting things in their friendly letters.
snorkack (20:35:58)
HCSSiM made me like math. That's how cool it is.
smbelcas (20:36:51)
In snorkack's friendly letter, she made a case that doing mathematics intensively for six weeks would help her find out whether she really disliked mathematics or not.
smbelcas (20:37:33)
Sometimes people tell us about problems they've been working on outside of school, or classes they especially enjoyed, or...
Fermatprime (20:37:23)
hah, but they aren't all that memorable. I don't think. I don't remember mine...
smbelcas (20:38:28)
They're often quite interesting when you look at them years later.
smbelcas (20:38:59)
(or even months later, sometimes)
smbelcas (20:39:57)
Sometimes students explain why they're well suited to HCSSiM, or why they want to come, or tell us about special circumstances.
smbelcas (20:40:57)
An example of that last is a student who wrote to explain why they hadn't applied the year before, and said that he was crazy. In fact, he signed the letter ""Crazy (name)""... that was several years ago.
Fermatprime (20:39:55)
oh! have the (non-senior) student evaluations been sent out? because I haven't got mine...
snorkack (20:41:42)
ha!
snorkack (20:42:14)
I don't think non-senior evaluations usually get sent out, but you should be able to get it when you're a senior
smbelcas (20:42:50)
We often choose not to send evaluations to students whom we suspect may apply to attend HCSSiM a second (or third) year.
Fermatprime (20:42:28)
ahh
snorkack (20:42:58)
I can tell y'all about introspections and interviews! We have them at the middle and end of the program.
snorkack (20:43:46)
In your introspection, you tell the staff all about how you think you've been doing: topics you've liked, proofs you wrote that you're really proud of, etc.
snorkack (20:44:19)
Then the staff read the introspection and talk to you about it in the interview, which lasts about 15 minutes, I think
smbelcas (20:45:03)
We don't offer grades or credit for HCSSiM (it's part of Hampshire College, which has neither grades nor credit; it's a nontraditional institution).
smbelcas (20:45:36)
At Hampshire, students do self-evaluations for each class and receive feedback from instructors (both written and verbal). We do the same at HCSSiM.
snorkack (20:45:46)
It's cool and useful, because then the staff and the students understand what the others are thinking (what an awkward statement)
smbelcas (20:46:11)
It's a much richer educational experience than simply receiving letter grades.
snorkack (20:46:20)
On the topic of feedback, the teachers write comments on the proofs you turn in every night.
Fermatprime (20:46:51)
Which is very helpful.
smbelcas (20:47:41)
I think the non-alumns should ask more questions.
smbelcas (20:48:42)
After all, the alumns and I could talk about HCSSiM all night!
smiley (20:48:45)
What topics have you had classes on in the past?
smbelcas (20:50:05)
Whew! We've had tons of topics over the last 33 years. Let's see... Graph Theory (general), Topological Graph Theory, Extremal Graph Theory, Ramsey Theory, Number Theory, Galois Theory, Fermat's Last Theorem, Number Systems,
smbelcas (20:50:18)
Non-Euclidean Geometry, Knot Theory, Generating Functions,
smbelcas (20:50:54)
Manifold Surgery, Game Theory, How to Count, Graph Colorings, Automata Theory,
snorkack (20:50:54)
sometimes even if there isn't supposed to be a class on something, a staff member will teach about it for an hour or two: we had topology, some complex number thing, etc.
smbelcas (20:51:36)
Fractals, From C to Shining C, Lebesgue Integration, Recent Papers, Banach-Tarski Paradox,
snorkack (20:51:41)
students give informal classes too: Java programming, origami bases, explosives...
smbelcas (20:52:22)
The Probabilstic Method, All About Euler, Dynamical Systems, Combinatorics,
smbelcas (20:53:13)
4-dimensional geometry, Probability, Fermat-Pell Equations, Classifying Topological Surfaces, Quadratic Reciprocity,
smbelcas (20:53:55)
There's so much math! We do a lot of it. Let's see... there's also Logic, Set Theory,
smbelcas (20:54:39)
Metric Spaces,
smbelcas (20:54:55)
More Group Theory,
smbelcas (20:55:04)
Math of the Rubik's Cube,
smbelcas (20:55:46)
...it's hard to remember all of the topics we've done in recent years. I hope that gives you a flavor of the rather large variety of topics we offer...
Ciaccona (20:56:32)
I have to go, but thank you for holding this!
smbelcas (20:56:59)
You're very welcome! And feel free to PM me with any questions you have.
Fermatprime (20:57:02)
goodbye! I too must be going, but you should apply!
smbelcas (20:57:39)
I think we should wrap up this Jam, then... any last questions?
smiley (20:58:24)
Thank you very much!
smbelcas (20:58:40)
You're welcome!
smbelcas (20:59:10)
Everyone should check out the HCSSiM website at http://www.hcssim.org, where you'll find tons of information about the program as well as the online application.
smbelcas (20:59:36)
(Don't forget that it's fast, free, fun, obligationless, and lets you get a copy of the Interesting Test!)
smbelcas (21:00:29)
Thanks to all of you for attending this Math Jam, and feel free to PM me with questions; you can also post in the HCSSiM subforum of the Other Contests and Programs forum.
smbelcas (21:00:47)
Good night!
HCSSiM Math Jam
MCrawford (19:29:26)
Greetings and welcome to tonight's HCSSiM Math Jam.
MCrawford (19:29:34)
Sarah-Marie Belcastro is here to help students get an idea of what the HCSSiM has to offer young problem solvers and students of mathematics. She can also answer questions regarding the HCSSiM.
MCrawford (19:29:41)
I wanted to attend HCSSiM when I was in high school and knew several who did and had a wonderful time.
MCrawford (19:29:46)
Before I turn the floor over to her I would like to briefly explain our classroom to students who have not previously attended.
MCrawford (19:29:52)
First of all, this classroom is moderated. This means that the messages you type will come to the instructors rather than going directly into the room. The instructors will choose some of the messages and questions to share with all of the students.
MCrawford (19:30:02)
Next, only the instructors have the ability to send private messages in the classroom. Sometimes they will use these to respond to your comments.
MCrawford (19:30:40)
At this time I will turn the floor over to Sarah-Marie.
smbelcas (19:30:52)
Hi, all!
smbelcas (19:31:09)
I too wish I were an alumn, but I'm not; I hadn't heard of HCSSiM when I was in high school.
snorkack (19:31:01)
Hi there.
smbelcas (19:32:00)
To answer lkryptonicl's question... well.. actually, I'm not quite sure what the question is. Does AoPS Vol. 2 help with what? Learning mathematics? Definitely.
lkryptonicl (19:32:30)
will it help me with ARML?
smbelcas (19:32:57)
I have no clue, as I don't write or do ARML questions.
smbelcas (19:33:57)
But generally, working on problem-solving skills through AoPS books, fora (I think that's the plural of 'forum'), and intensive summer programs, will help with contests of all kinds.
enachum (19:33:46)
What is ARML?
smbelcas (19:34:36)
It's the American Regions Mathematics League (not the topic of tonight's Jam) and you can find it at www.arml.com
snorkack (19:34:39)
Ah. I was surprised to be able to do contests after HCSSiM. It was quite handy.
lkryptonicl (19:35:03)
cool!!!
smbelcas (19:35:23)
I guess that means you should apply to HCSSiM, lkryptonicl...
Fermatprime (19:35:34)
Plus you appreciate stuff like: ""Apparently the problems committee for IMO 1995 was known as the 'Problem Interpolation Group (P.I.G.)'"" (I was looking over IMO Shortlist problems...)
enachum (19:35:36)
Can one who is going to the freshmen year of the high school join this program?
smbelcas (19:35:55)
Yup! Absolutely.
smbelcas (19:36:14)
snorkack attended after the first year of high school, for example.
lkryptonicl (19:36:14)
how do you join this program
lkryptonicl (19:36:16)
?
smbelcas (19:37:07)
Apply online at www.hcssim.org (there's a link in the left sidebar to start the application); it's fun, free, fast, and doable even while pursuing other options.
smbelcas (19:37:26)
Plus, if you don't apply, you may experience boredom and drowsiness. And you don't get to see the Interesting Test.
enachum (19:37:20)
Is there any pre-requisite in math?
smbelcas (19:38:00)
Nope. No specific prerequisites. We do expect mathematical creativity/maturity, which is what we attempt to measure via the Interesting Test.
lkryptonicl (19:38:24)
if i do hcssim will i be able to make it past the AIME's?
smbelcas (19:38:55)
That depends on you; this year, we had twelve alumns qualify for the USAMO.
snorkack (19:38:49)
that's not the point of HCSSiM
Fermatprime (19:38:52)
I did this year, after not being able to last year. I credit HCSSiM in part.
snorkack (19:39:16)
I didn't
enachum (19:39:08)
Can we visit the student during these weeks? when?
smbelcas (19:40:03)
Parental visits are discouraged.
smbelcas (19:40:15)
Generally we request that visitors be approved eight months in advance.
snorkack (19:40:21)
students can send a ton of email
smbelcas (19:40:44)
Students are usually too busy to receive visitors, as well.
enachum (19:40:51)
even on Sundays?
smbelcas (19:41:22)
I'll let the alumns field that one.
snorkack (19:41:09)
when we arrived, Kelly said, ""If you promised your parents that you would call them right when you arrived and you haven't yet, try to call them within the next week or so"" (This was a joke, and phones are quite available)
snorkack (19:41:33)
Sundays are sometimes when you sleep
Ciaccona (19:41:08)
How much math has a student generally had before attending? I'm currently in eighth grade, and will take 3rd semsester calculus next fall, but I haven't really problem solving. (State-level MathCounts, limited proof-based competitions such as UW Talent Search). I know you just said that there's no prerequisite, but I really would prefer to have a solid background before attending anything too strenuous.
smbelcas (19:42:15)
So, Ciaccona, I think you've done a lot of problem solving if you've done two semesters of calculus.
smbelcas (19:42:42)
Approximately half of the students invited to attend HCSSiM have had calculus before.
smbelcas (19:43:06)
We do not have any contest focus.
snorkack (19:42:47)
You don't really need to know anything before you arrive, but you need to be able to think (and it appears that you can)
snorkack (19:42:11)
On the weekend we have to do the Program Journal, which details what you did during the week, and there are other cool activities like the hike
Ciaccona (19:43:21)
I meant subjects such as number theory - haven't has much of that stuff. My teachers weren't really prepared to deal with anything except what was in the textbooks.
smbelcas (19:43:57)
Number Theory is one of the many mathematical subjects discussed during workshop (that's the first three weeks of HCSSiM).
smbelcas (19:44:18)
You are not expected to have learned any college-level mathematics before attending HCSSiM.
smbelcas (19:44:48)
As snorkack observes, you appear to be the sort of student who would fit right in at HCSSiM.
snorkack (19:44:40)
workshop attempts to bring students all to the same level
smbelcas (19:45:28)
Most HCSSiM folks have the same experience (with teachers unprepared to do things outside the curriculum) as you have.
Ciaccona (19:45:43)
Ah, fun. I shall apply.
smbelcas (19:45:57)
Please do. I'll look for your application.
snorkack (19:45:54)
Yay!!
Fermatprime (19:46:19)
yay, we got 1!
kimby_102 (19:46:24)
How much is this cost??
smbelcas (19:47:36)
The comprehensive fee for HCSSiM for this summer is $2159. We also offer financial aid for those who need it, and in the last 33 years I think there have been perhaps two students who weren't able to attend because of financial need.
snorkack (19:47:06)
2159 = 1700 + 289 + 170
lkryptonicl (19:48:22)
thats so much money
smbelcas (19:48:52)
True, it's lots of money, but also cheaper than most of the other national-level summer programs.
snorkack (19:48:33)
My mom got a ton of financial aid when she was a student
snorkack (19:48:42)
other places cost more
Ciaccona (19:48:49)
Who picked the number 17? I've noticed that it's the 'special' number.
smbelcas (19:49:36)
'Picked' might not be quite the correct descriptor, but the answer to 'who' would be David Kelly, founder of HCSSiM
snorkack (19:49:18)
17 exists by itself
kimby_102 (19:49:27)
Well, you can also get scholarchips from
kimby_102 (19:49:37)
MuAlphaTheta
smbelcas (19:50:02)
Yes, and last year we had a student partially supported by M.A.T.
Fermatprime (19:49:46)
and Mike Spivak
smbelcas (19:50:08)
...no...
smbelcas (19:50:22)
you're confusing the yellow pig with seventeen.
Fermatprime (19:50:29)
(not the scholarships) I thought he had something to do with 17 too
smbelcas (19:50:50)
Not that I know of...
kimby_102 (19:50:41)
I believe M.A.T grants up to 2000 for summer program.
smbelcas (19:51:08)
Really? That's great! How does one apply for that money?
smbelcas (19:51:46)
(I'd like to be able to tell those students we invite about it...)
kimby_102 (19:51:38)
You just go to their website. I will post it in a second.
kimby_102 (19:53:03)
The site is www.mualphatheta.org
smbelcas (19:55:42)
...
smbelcas (19:56:19)
So, alumns, what should we tell people about HCSSiM?
snorkack (19:56:32)
It's really cool! The staff are fun.
snorkack (19:56:51)
There are small classes (I hope) with about three staff per class
Fermatprime (19:56:54)
hmm. well, this year is going to be HCSSiM 34...which is cool...but somewhat irrelevant.
smbelcas (19:57:44)
Classes are usually in the 12 - 14 range, with three staff members (one a math professor, one a grad student, one an undergrad, usually)
smbelcas (19:57:56)
Classes never get larger than 17 students.
snorkack (19:57:34)
The junior staff, though usually inexperienced at teaching, are smart, hard-working, friendly, knowledgable, and helpful
snorkack (19:57:41)
The senior staff are just awesome
Fermatprime (19:59:05)
also, many guests and alumni give hour-long talks at 17:00, which are typically great
smbelcas (19:59:33)
Oh, yes---and this year, we will have a conference as part of the program. It'll be a 3-ish day mathematics conference.
smbelcas (19:59:59)
We just got confirmation that alumn Eric Lander (1974) who directs the Broad Institute at MIT (y'know, the Human Genome Project) will be speaking.
lkryptonicl (19:59:04)
where is HCSSiM?
smbelcas (20:00:14)
Amherst, Massachusetts.
smbelcas (20:00:45)
It's on the Hampshire College campus, which is right near the campuses of Smith College, Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke College, and UMass Amherst.
smbelcas (20:00:52)
They're called The Five Colleges.
snorkack (19:59:25)
We get a lot of interaction with the staff outside class: all the meals are together, and we can play frisbee and stuff in the afternoon
snorkack (20:00:58)
although the bus doesn't run in the summer
smbelcas (20:01:50)
...that's not quite true. It runs really infrequently in the summer. But HCSSiM has a van and as long as there are willing staff, you can be driven to other colleges and such.
Fermatprime (20:02:33)
plus the staff doesn't ""teach down"" to the students. their speaking styles are pretty much exactly the same outside of the program...as far as I can tell...
smbelcas (20:02:47)
That's absolutely true.
snorkack (20:03:07)
s-m views students as adults, according to her
Bobby Jacobs (20:03:49)
Hi!
smbelcas (20:04:28)
It's not just me, but all the staff members. I've seen many junior and senior staff give professional talks, and I've seen some of them teach college students etc.... the speaking styles are the same.
smbelcas (20:04:50)
In fact, it's been said by alumns that there's a ""Hampshire style"" of giving math talks.
snorkack (20:04:32)
The program is small enough that you know everyone; in fact, sarah-marie could name everyone the first evening
enachum (20:04:31)
What's the PRIME TIME THEOREM?
smbelcas (20:05:18)
The Prime Time Theorem is the daily mathematics talk, given at the Prime Time of 17:00 (and afterwards, we go to dinner).
smbelcas (20:05:50)
We have four hours of class in the morning, then recreation in the afternoon, then the PTT, then dinner, a short break, and problem sessions.
smbelcas (20:06:12)
Well, except on Wednesdays when we have mathematics movies before problem session, and Saturday evenings there isn't a problem session.
smbelcas (20:06:17)
But there are classes on Saturday mornings.
Bobby Jacobs (20:05:50)
I like primes.
snorkack (20:06:19)
We have quiet time at 11:17, which is a good thing, because then you can sleep
smbelcas (20:07:18)
Primes are awesome. And there are infinitely many of them!
Bobby Jacobs (20:06:51)
Does anybody know about 01:02:03 on 04/05/06.
snorkack (20:07:39)
I was in a class called ""Patterns Among the Primes""; lots of people like primes
Ciaccona (20:08:23)
Yes - I stayed up for it.
smbelcas (20:08:43)
Darn! I missed it!
smbelcas (20:09:01)
(totally slipped my mind...)
smiley (20:08:48)
How many people do you accept into the camp?
smbelcas (20:09:29)
We invite 40 - 50 students each year.
smbelcas (20:09:57)
But, it's technically not a camp (by State of Massachusetts regulations).
snorkack (20:10:08)
except when you accept a different number; it varies
Bobby Jacobs (20:11:54)
How old do you have to be to go to the camp? I am 12 and live in Virginia.
smbelcas (20:12:23)
We do not have age limits. Most participants attend after their sophomore or junior years of high school, however.
smbelcas (20:13:22)
Bobby, I encourage you to apply (free! fun! obligationless! doable online at www.hcssim.org!) and continue the getting-to-know-each-other process.
snorkack (20:12:55)
There were a lot of people last year who had just finished their freshman years
enachum (20:12:57)
Would one be taught the subjects from the basics? because things like four-dimensional geometry and dynamics I haven't even touched.
smbelcas (20:13:48)
As it turns out, we will have a class this year which includes four-dimensional geometry.
smbelcas (20:14:15)
In some years, we have a class on dynamics. Actually, we usually have one, but it varies as to whether it's a week-long class or a 3-week class.
smiley (20:13:11)
About how many younger students do you accept?
smbelcas (20:14:50)
We don't have particular proportions of younger/older students in mind when we invite students to HCSSiM.
snorkack (20:13:53)
four-dimensional geometry?? eek that sounds hard
smbelcas (20:15:25)
snorkack, I can almost guarantee that if you are invited to HCSSiM this summer, you'll be taking that class.
smbelcas (20:15:43)
It will be a three-week course in higher-dimensional convex geometry.
smbelcas (20:15:58)
I'll be teaching it, most likely with Emily Peters (grad student at Berkeley).
Ciaccona (20:15:32)
But fun, you must admit. Though rather hard to visualize or draw.
smbelcas (20:16:52)
It's not _so_ bad to draw in 4D. On the other hand, 5D is quite a challenge...
snorkack (20:16:31)
I can't even visualize three dimensions
smbelcas (20:17:07)
All the more reason to take the class and learn!
snorkack (20:17:24)
We can use colored chalk! I can draw with both hands in different colors.
smbelcas (20:20:03)
I'm not sure how much colored chalk will help when we're discussing general n dimensions.
smbelcas (20:21:54)
There will likely be a 3-week class on Probability (or maybe on Dynamical Systems) and one on Origami and Combinatorial Geometry.
smbelcas (20:22:27)
... and there will be a ton of one-week classes with topics yet to be determined (but requests are always welcome).
snorkack (20:22:10)
what does ""Dynamical Systems"" mean?
smbelcas (20:22:55)
It's the study of iterating functions, and the differences in behavior that various points have under the iteration.
smbelcas (20:23:30)
There are points that don't do much, points that are periodic, and those that behave chaotically.
smbelcas (20:23:49)
This behavior depends on the function one is looking at, of course.
smbelcas (20:24:05)
Fractals are part of the study of dynamical systems.
Fermatprime (20:23:57)
we touched on dynamics in kelly's workshop last year.
snorkack (20:23:41)
I remember doing stuff like that in BASIC. We get to use computers, including (I think) Mathematica, for math stuff.
smbelcas (20:25:27)
By the way, I'm not sure that the description ""points that are periodic"" was clear. What I mean is that there are some points which, when one applies a function to them repeatedly, end up landing on the same few points over and over and over...
snorkack (20:25:05)
(you can also use computers for non-math stuff, only not during class and not too loudly)
snorkack (20:26:37)
One student last year animated messages using polygons in Mathematica. It was so cool
smbelcas (20:27:17)
Yes, and we (meaning myself and senior staff member Tom Hull) showed that animation to the Mathematica developers at the Joint Mathematics Meetings in January.
Fermatprime (20:29:11)
which is not something you hear from most summer math programs.
smbelcas (20:29:38)
Math Jams usually last about an hour. It's been an hour now, but I'm happy to keep the room open as long as there are questions and comments.
snorkack (20:30:27)
In class, s-m goes around to each person periodically to ask if he/she has a question. It's great, because then you can't get lost. (This is on the topic of questions)
smbelcas (20:30:51)
I'm not the only HCSSiM staff member who does this.
smbelcas (20:32:05)
All HCSSiM instructors teach in a very interactive way.
snorkack (20:32:12)
Oh yes, this is true.
snorkack (20:32:47)
Kids are constantly running up to the board and drawing weird diagrams.
smbelcas (20:33:20)
Yes, and writing out proofs and sketching out ideas and...
Ciaccona (20:33:48)
That's awesome. I've been doing independent study for two years, because my middle school ran out of math for me, so having a good, interactive teacher would be...different. Especially because next year at the university, it looks like my lecture will have hundreds of students.
smbelcas (20:34:30)
It's really difficult to be interactive when there are more than 60 or so students in a room.
smiley (20:33:50)
What kind of things do you want for the ""friendly letter"" part of the online application?
smbelcas (20:35:27)
We'd like a glimpse at your personality, especially your mathematical personality. It's a chance for you to help us get to know you better.
snorkack (20:35:28)
Two years ago I wrote in my friendly letter that I didn't like math. Then my mom yelled at me. I like math now, though.
smbelcas (20:35:57)
Applicants say all sorts of interesting things in their friendly letters.
snorkack (20:35:58)
HCSSiM made me like math. That's how cool it is.
smbelcas (20:36:51)
In snorkack's friendly letter, she made a case that doing mathematics intensively for six weeks would help her find out whether she really disliked mathematics or not.
smbelcas (20:37:33)
Sometimes people tell us about problems they've been working on outside of school, or classes they especially enjoyed, or...
Fermatprime (20:37:23)
hah, but they aren't all that memorable. I don't think. I don't remember mine...
smbelcas (20:38:28)
They're often quite interesting when you look at them years later.
smbelcas (20:38:59)
(or even months later, sometimes)
smbelcas (20:39:57)
Sometimes students explain why they're well suited to HCSSiM, or why they want to come, or tell us about special circumstances.
smbelcas (20:40:57)
An example of that last is a student who wrote to explain why they hadn't applied the year before, and said that he was crazy. In fact, he signed the letter ""Crazy (name)""... that was several years ago.
Fermatprime (20:39:55)
oh! have the (non-senior) student evaluations been sent out? because I haven't got mine...
snorkack (20:41:42)
ha!
snorkack (20:42:14)
I don't think non-senior evaluations usually get sent out, but you should be able to get it when you're a senior
smbelcas (20:42:50)
We often choose not to send evaluations to students whom we suspect may apply to attend HCSSiM a second (or third) year.
Fermatprime (20:42:28)
ahh
snorkack (20:42:58)
I can tell y'all about introspections and interviews! We have them at the middle and end of the program.
snorkack (20:43:46)
In your introspection, you tell the staff all about how you think you've been doing: topics you've liked, proofs you wrote that you're really proud of, etc.
snorkack (20:44:19)
Then the staff read the introspection and talk to you about it in the interview, which lasts about 15 minutes, I think
smbelcas (20:45:03)
We don't offer grades or credit for HCSSiM (it's part of Hampshire College, which has neither grades nor credit; it's a nontraditional institution).
smbelcas (20:45:36)
At Hampshire, students do self-evaluations for each class and receive feedback from instructors (both written and verbal). We do the same at HCSSiM.
snorkack (20:45:46)
It's cool and useful, because then the staff and the students understand what the others are thinking (what an awkward statement)
smbelcas (20:46:11)
It's a much richer educational experience than simply receiving letter grades.
snorkack (20:46:20)
On the topic of feedback, the teachers write comments on the proofs you turn in every night.
Fermatprime (20:46:51)
Which is very helpful.
smbelcas (20:47:41)
I think the non-alumns should ask more questions.
smbelcas (20:48:42)
After all, the alumns and I could talk about HCSSiM all night!
smiley (20:48:45)
What topics have you had classes on in the past?
smbelcas (20:50:05)
Whew! We've had tons of topics over the last 33 years. Let's see... Graph Theory (general), Topological Graph Theory, Extremal Graph Theory, Ramsey Theory, Number Theory, Galois Theory, Fermat's Last Theorem, Number Systems,
smbelcas (20:50:18)
Non-Euclidean Geometry, Knot Theory, Generating Functions,
smbelcas (20:50:54)
Manifold Surgery, Game Theory, How to Count, Graph Colorings, Automata Theory,
snorkack (20:50:54)
sometimes even if there isn't supposed to be a class on something, a staff member will teach about it for an hour or two: we had topology, some complex number thing, etc.
smbelcas (20:51:36)
Fractals, From C to Shining C, Lebesgue Integration, Recent Papers, Banach-Tarski Paradox,
snorkack (20:51:41)
students give informal classes too: Java programming, origami bases, explosives...
smbelcas (20:52:22)
The Probabilstic Method, All About Euler, Dynamical Systems, Combinatorics,
smbelcas (20:53:13)
4-dimensional geometry, Probability, Fermat-Pell Equations, Classifying Topological Surfaces, Quadratic Reciprocity,
smbelcas (20:53:55)
There's so much math! We do a lot of it. Let's see... there's also Logic, Set Theory,
smbelcas (20:54:39)
Metric Spaces,
smbelcas (20:54:55)
More Group Theory,
smbelcas (20:55:04)
Math of the Rubik's Cube,
smbelcas (20:55:46)
...it's hard to remember all of the topics we've done in recent years. I hope that gives you a flavor of the rather large variety of topics we offer...
Ciaccona (20:56:32)
I have to go, but thank you for holding this!
smbelcas (20:56:59)
You're very welcome! And feel free to PM me with any questions you have.
Fermatprime (20:57:02)
goodbye! I too must be going, but you should apply!
smbelcas (20:57:39)
I think we should wrap up this Jam, then... any last questions?
smiley (20:58:24)
Thank you very much!
smbelcas (20:58:40)
You're welcome!
smbelcas (20:59:10)
Everyone should check out the HCSSiM website at http://www.hcssim.org, where you'll find tons of information about the program as well as the online application.
smbelcas (20:59:36)
(Don't forget that it's fast, free, fun, obligationless, and lets you get a copy of the Interesting Test!)
smbelcas (21:00:29)
Thanks to all of you for attending this Math Jam, and feel free to PM me with questions; you can also post in the HCSSiM subforum of the Other Contests and Programs forum.
smbelcas (21:00:47)
Good night!
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