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Idea Math Summer Program

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U.S. International Math Olympiad team coach Zuming Feng discusses his new summer program.

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Facilitator: Zuming Feng

rrusczyk 2010-02-01 19:32:51
Tonight, we have a special guest, Zuming Feng, the coach of the US International Math Olympiad team. He's here to talk about his new summer program, IDEA MATH. I'll now turn the floor over to him, so he can introduce his other moderators, and tell you more about his program.
rrusczyk 2010-02-01 19:33:08
One note: this room is moderated. So, anything you enter in the room will only go to the moderators, unless they choose to share it with everyone.
zman 2010-02-01 19:33:24
Hi, guys, good evening and welcome. This is Zuming Feng, I want to use this opportunity to introduce a new summer program for students interested in math, in particular, in problem solving.
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:34:52
What is the difference between your new summer program and the other summer programs such as AwesomeMath?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:36:06
We are more close to the classrooms. We emphasize less on math olympiads
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:36:19
We emphasize less on olympiad techniques
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:36:28
and more on general math learning...
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:36:32
We also have a nonresidential program
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:38:07
In other words, we focus less on purely olympiad techniques such as three variable inequalites. We want to focus more on the relationship between the language of mathematics and contest mathematics.
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:38:33
Could you explain what you meant by being closer to the classrooms?
BadrGhamdi 2010-02-01 19:38:36
so do you mean that it's not an olympiad level program ?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:38:39
It is an olympiad level program, but the focus is not just on olympiad techniques
zman 2010-02-01 19:38:41
The camp is two weeks long with 11 teaching days. Students will arrive on July 18th and leaving on Aug. 1st.
Truffles 2010-02-01 19:39:59
Is this the first year of this summer camp?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:40:22
Yes, but based on successful years in the winter at the Bay Area and the weekend program in the Boston Area.
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:40:43
By saying that we are closer to the classroom, we mean that we are using our experience in building the math club at Phillips Exeter to help recognize students' abilites and interests. We want to use contest math to lead them towards learning more interesting mathematics.
math_galois 2010-02-01 19:40:54
what is a nonresidential program?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:41:48
We offer an option for students living close to the camp site to arrive in the morning and leave in the evening without staying overnight.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:41:52
Most of the olympiad techniques come naturally from good mathematics, instead of drilling certain kind of skills, so IdeaMath is aiming to encourage the students to engage in such materials
theax 2010-02-01 19:43:15
wait - there was a progam in the bay area during the winter - what's the website?
BadrGhamdi 2010-02-01 19:44:11
where is it going to be held ?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:44:13
The contest will be held at Merrimack College in Massachusetts
zman 2010-02-01 19:44:16
www.ideamath.org/amc123_main.htm is the website for our AMC 123 program (Bay area during the winter break)
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:44:26
I saw on the website that you have academic activities in the evening as well? Are these math activities as well?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:45:05
During the evening, we will have team contests and write ups. The team contests are much more accessible, and the teaching assistant will assign the write ups immediately.
funkadeli23 2010-02-01 19:45:50
how much does it cost?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:46:01
For residential students: 2385,
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:46:10
For day students, 1285 dollars
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:46:15
We offer early discount
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:46:42
we also offer discount on perfect scores on the AMC 10/12 and the mathcounts top individuals of each state
mthcz11 2010-02-01 19:47:18
So, all of the student moderators and moniters here are students at PEA?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:47:35
Yes; Aneo., oolaoola, and I are students at Phillips Exeter Academy right now.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:48:36
In our weekend program, we have 75 students for 4 levels, and in our sanfrancisco, we have 100 students ranging from 5 levels. We try to keep the students in each class under 20 students, so if there is a popular class, we open up more sections to accomodate the demand.
straw1boy 2010-02-01 19:48:46
Approximately how many people attend each year?
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:49:34
You said you focus more on the relationship between the language of mathematics and contest mathematics. Could you give us a concrete example?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:49:36
It relates in many ways to contest math, but you gotta realize that's just the tip of the iceberg here. For example, in Zuming's class one day we discussed what might be a simple AIME problem- you have a cone and you have to find the minimum distance from one point to another. A more "technique" oriented class might tell you the simple answer - unfold the cone into a circle and trace the chord. But... how do you know it's the minimum? And it turns out the path lies on a plane when folded again... can you prove this? And it generalizes to the concept of geodesic curves along a sphere. How do you know the path must be a circle, and lies on plane there as well? These questions are very deep, and this is just one example of a kind of problem where you really have to look deeper to the underlying fabric of the math around you. It's not just about contests - and thats what we mean about the language of math.
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:51:07
I saw on the website that you have two levels for the enhancement series. Are students required to choose one of them or it can be a combination of both?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:51:43
For our contest build-up series, students will assigned to a level based on the assessement test at the beginning of camp.
zman 2010-02-01 19:52:27
We are going to present two examples to indicate waht do we mean by "closer to classroom", "making connection between Olympiad math and math language" Here is the first one, it can be a example in our Geometry computation mordern appraoch, the core question is about showing tan^{-1} 3/5 is irrational:
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:52:40
For students who qualify for the Contest enhancement series, they will have the option to pick between the two choices, but they will need to pick one morning and one afternoon option fo rhte entire camp. (The first option is slightly easier, however.)
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 19:53:39
What type of not-mathematical activities will you have planned (other than the college trips)?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:53:57
There will be activites such as hiking or sightseeing around Boston on the weekends.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 19:54:03
In the application, you want a short essay about a "topic we're passionite about." Could you elaborate and/or give a few examples?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:54:19
for the application essay, anything interesting is fine....as long as the essay conveys your interests.
zman 2010-02-01 19:55:26
In the mean time, we also have shown that if theta = \tan^{-1} 3/4 then the position of $(\cos n\heta, \sin n\theta)$ is dense
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 19:55:57
For the essay, interests both inside and outside of math/academics? Or just one?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:56:12
Anything.
monkeygirl13 2010-02-01 19:56:28
What level is this intended for?
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:56:47
What is the highest level of the students you have in your weekend or winter programs?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 19:56:56
We start to the elementary level, all the way to preparation for olympiads
zman 2010-02-01 19:57:31
This is an typical example of connecting the language of math with contest math. So while the prolbems are of MO level (or other levels), we also give students a picture of the motivation of the problems and how to develop them
piggyinc 2010-02-01 19:57:36
This is intended for all levels. We start from Math Roots, which is for beginning students, and then, Advanced Topics, the highest level, will go to the proof/olympiad level.
^_^ 2010-02-01 19:57:56
What are the backgrounds of the instructors? Are they all undergrad and grad students?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:58:24
Here's the link:
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:58:26
http://ideamath.org/instructors.html
Aneo. 2010-02-01 19:59:07
We've got tons of experienced math educators and problem writers as well as many former competitors themselves.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 19:59:11
What if a student is at different levels in different areas of math? Would it be possible for them to be in one program in the morning, and a different one in the afternoon?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:00:20
We will look at these on a case by case basis depending on the student.
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:01:22
Are the teachers going to have lunch together with the students or they are free at lunchtime?
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:01:30
Do you have lights out in the evening or the students can stay up as late as they want?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:01:31
There is a communal dining hall and everybody will eat at about the same time.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:01:53
There is lights out during weekdays, and weekends have later lights out
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:03:18
Within a level, is there just one class for each subject area? Or do you have a few options? Also, will you have more than one of each class that there is a lot of interest for?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:03:52
If there are a lot of people interested in a class, we might open more formats.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:04:34
But yes, there is one class for each subject area in a given level
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:05:53
Do you have homework for the students or they finish their work in class?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:06:28
Mostly, our philosophy is that students should finish their work during class, and most during the day, but instructors have discretion over the workload
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:06:55
However, students will need to do some work team contest problems (and the writeups for those problems after team contest discussion) outside of class.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:07:33
During the week, will there be any orginized recreational time? What about unoriginized?
zman 2010-02-01 20:08:11
I gave a problem and Ravi gave a problem, please see the comments before.
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:08:38
There will be organized recreational activites each day after dinner, although students will be free to chose what they want to do during this time.
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:08:51
However, we strongly discourage students from playing computer games.
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:09:17
Do you grade students' work?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:09:43
The TA's will grade the team contest, but this will strictly be for academic use. (not as a report card to send home to parents)
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:09:59
Are they allowed to take their computers there?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:10:14
We strongly discourage this.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:10:41
And during the weekend, will there be any math-related activities?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:11:16
We will only have two 1-day breaks. During those two days, we strongly encourage students to take a break from math. We will have group activites, and hope that students will use these breaks to recharge for math the next day.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:11:24
For the team contests, do you have different levels?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:11:35
Yes, they are related to the class you take.
mthcz11 2010-02-01 20:11:46
Approximately how many hours do students work on math every weekday/weekend day?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:12:27
During the teaching days, students will have 3 hours of classes in the morning, 3 in the afternoon, and 1 hour of math in the evening. Duringt the break days, 0 hours.
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:12:49
Do you grade students' work in class as well?
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:13:21
What is the teacher-student ratio?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:13:33
No. We assume that they are here to learn something, so we do not need to grade them in class. We want students to stay away from the mentality of being graded; we want them to learn math because they are interested in it.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:13:43
Usually, classes are less than 20 students, and we have a TA as well as an instructor, so the ratio is 1:10
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:13:55
Our philosophy is also that student work is motivated more towards math success than from mere grades.
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:15:26
Do you check their work in class, whether they are wrong or right?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:15:41
Our teachers are responsible teachers. Of course we check
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:15:48
Of course; we will let them know whether their answers/proofs are right or wrong. However, we will not be giving them grades.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:18:04
How much freedom will students have in moving around campus on our own? Will we have access to computers, libraries, etc?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:18:18
Students need to get permission to go to a place in a group. Otherwise, they should be accompanied by an advisor.
johnnybeard 2010-02-01 20:18:26
Will a faculty list be posted on the website?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:18:29
http://ideamath.org/instructors.htm
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:19:02
In general, activites will be supervised. Students can ask permission for other activites. However, counselors should know where they are.
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:19:33
We will post a list of instructors for the summer program alone later on.
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:21:25
How do you organize your topics? Does each class focus on a theorem?
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:21:55
Each class will follow the theme of the whole course (not just one theorem). The exact organization of the class will vary from teacher to teacher.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:22:53
What will the dorms be like? Will everyone have a roommate? How many roommates?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:22:59
Two people a room
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:24:16
If I go with a friend, can we stay in the same dorm?
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:24:27
To get permission, do we need to have a real purpose, or can we just take a walk?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:24:30
It depends on whether the two of you play starcraft a lot or not
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:24:42
Otherwise, we'll do our best to honor roomate requests
theax 2010-02-01 20:27:17
what topics do you cover?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:27:51
For advanced group, Combinatorics and Geometry
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:28:38
For build up and contest: Geometry, Number Sense/Algebra, and Precalculus
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:29:20
Roots: Algebra, Number Sense, Geometry, and Counting
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:29:29
(a mix really)
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:32:15
A few questions will begin the class. At times, there would be more lead up questions....and then the class will develop based on the questions
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:32:18
You said your classes would be seminar like? So basically you would give a lecture and then give students some problems and let them discuss?
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:34:58
So there's no combinatorics/counting in the middle levels?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:35:08
There are - full details are here http://ideamath.org/SummerCourse.htm
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:37:01
Is number sense like number theory?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:37:09
number sense is numbertheory without a lot of theorems
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:37:20
basically elementary numbertheory
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:41:07
What does a typical class of yours look like?
zman 2010-02-01 20:41:10
Good handouts, leading questions/concepts, problems, disucssions, follow-up questions, more disucssions
theax 2010-02-01 20:42:25
not related to this camp: but does the adjusted USAMO index determine how one makes it to the USAMO?
zman 2010-02-01 20:42:36
No, this is just for us
^_^ 2010-02-01 20:43:12
So there will be no lectures?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:43:18
Of course there will be lectures
johnnybeard 2010-02-01 20:43:21
what do you mean by "good handouts"? Like, what is on them?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:43:33
Good problems, good ideas...
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:43:36
Usually those good problems will be related to a theme
zman 2010-02-01 20:43:37
USAMO/USAJMO index are decided by AMC, we respect their decision.
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:44:13
For example a recent handout was titled "Spiral Similiarity" at PEA
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:50:20
Are there any more questions?
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:50:48
It's going to be awesome!
piggyinc 2010-02-01 20:51:05
If you would like more information, you can e-mail summerprogram@ideamath.org or info@ideamath.org.
PurpleEnigma 2010-02-01 20:51:51
Where will problems for the classes come from? Will they be from old contests, textbooks, or will the teachers make them up?
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:52:10
A mix - it depends more on the quality of the problems than the source.
oolaoola 2010-02-01 20:52:15
^_^
Aneo. 2010-02-01 20:53:08
Alright guys, we're close up now. Hope to see you all this summer!
straw1boy 2010-02-01 20:53:21
Bye!
zman 2010-02-01 20:54:48
Bye, look forward to seeing you! Best luck in the coming contest season -- AMC10, 12, HMMT, Mandelbrot, ARML, USAMO, USAJMO, TST, IMO, etc

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