Poetry Jam: a Collaborative Exploration of Poet’s Choice
Go back to the Math Jam ArchiveKaren Ge, as part of the AoPS Language Arts team, will take students on a journey to dig deeper into a poem by E. E. Cummings in AoPS Online’s first ever poetry jam. Join for literary adventures, lots of problem-solving, and hopefully, a taste of the joy of close reading.
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Facilitator: AoPS Staff
kge
2021-09-24 19:31:01
Hi everyone! Welcome to AoPS Online's first ever poetry jam!
Hi everyone! Welcome to AoPS Online's first ever poetry jam!
kge
2021-09-24 19:31:06
What do you think might happen in a poetry jam?
What do you think might happen in a poetry jam?
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 19:31:42
we chat about poetry
we chat about poetry
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:31:42
We read poems and discuss it?
We read poems and discuss it?
hh99754539
2021-09-24 19:31:42
we read a poem and examine it through math
we read a poem and examine it through math
silenthill
2021-09-24 19:31:42
We will analyze poems and answer questions.
We will analyze poems and answer questions.
krishiam
2021-09-24 19:31:49
Its where we all share our ideas
Its where we all share our ideas
TatvaD
2021-09-24 19:32:01
We will read a poem and guess the meaning???
We will read a poem and guess the meaning???
hh99754539
2021-09-24 19:32:01
kge
2021-09-24 19:32:07
Excellent ideas! Hopefully a lot of that will happen in the next hour or so together
Excellent ideas! Hopefully a lot of that will happen in the next hour or so together
kge
2021-09-24 19:32:16
I'm Karen, your friendly neighborhood poetry jammer! This is my first time on a journey like this, and it's probably yours too. I'm excited to have a lot of fun talking about poetry with you, but here's a bit about me in case you're curious:
I'm Karen, your friendly neighborhood poetry jammer! This is my first time on a journey like this, and it's probably yours too. I'm excited to have a lot of fun talking about poetry with you, but here's a bit about me in case you're curious:
kge
2021-09-24 19:32:31
I'm a junior at Stanford University studying Symbolic Systems (basically a combination of computer science, linguistics, philosophy, and a whole lot of other ideas). Since studying Spanish in high school, I've always loved all things poetry, translation, and working with words. As a fun fact, I was actually an AoPS student back in high school as well: I took WOOT and loved hanging out on FTW and the forums. In my free time I play the violin, ultimate frisbee, and sometimes spontaneously burst into song.
I'm a junior at Stanford University studying Symbolic Systems (basically a combination of computer science, linguistics, philosophy, and a whole lot of other ideas). Since studying Spanish in high school, I've always loved all things poetry, translation, and working with words. As a fun fact, I was actually an AoPS student back in high school as well: I took WOOT and loved hanging out on FTW and the forums. In my free time I play the violin, ultimate frisbee, and sometimes spontaneously burst into song.
kge
2021-09-24 19:32:52
Alright, enough about me! Let's get started
Alright, enough about me! Let's get started
kge
2021-09-24 19:32:55
You might have a vague idea of what will happen, but here's a more concrete plan for today. Essentially, we'll be reading a poem by E.E. Cummings, but in the best sense of the word "reading." We'll be analyzing it together, as a group, debating meanings, solving the puzzles contained within the poem, and, if everything goes according to plan, having a ton of fun!
You might have a vague idea of what will happen, but here's a more concrete plan for today. Essentially, we'll be reading a poem by E.E. Cummings, but in the best sense of the word "reading." We'll be analyzing it together, as a group, debating meanings, solving the puzzles contained within the poem, and, if everything goes according to plan, having a ton of fun!
kge
2021-09-24 19:33:17
By the end of the class, I hope you'll be able to walk away with your own opinion about what this poem means, as well as some nuggets of ideas about how to write poetry yourself. In particular, I don't just want you to understand the poem, I also want you to get inside the mind of the poet and figure out some of the more intricate layers of it, and how you could create those in your own work.
By the end of the class, I hope you'll be able to walk away with your own opinion about what this poem means, as well as some nuggets of ideas about how to write poetry yourself. In particular, I don't just want you to understand the poem, I also want you to get inside the mind of the poet and figure out some of the more intricate layers of it, and how you could create those in your own work.
kge
2021-09-24 19:33:44
Sound fun?
Sound fun?
ScoobySnacks22
2021-09-24 19:33:56
Sounds exciting!
Sounds exciting!
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 19:33:56
FUNNNNN
FUNNNNN
medical_ordnance
2021-09-24 19:33:56
Yayyyy Yippeee
Yayyyy Yippeee
Blueclay
2021-09-24 19:33:56
YES, ABSOLUTELY.
YES, ABSOLUTELY.
SugarRush
2021-09-24 19:34:02
yes
yes
Pearlwhite
2021-09-24 19:34:02
Yes!
Yes!
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:34:02
Yep!
Yep!
kthakur2011
2021-09-24 19:34:02
yes!
yes!
SapphireSparrow
2021-09-24 19:34:02
Yes!
Yes!
Math2you2
2021-09-24 19:34:02
It's the definition of fun xD
It's the definition of fun xD
kge
2021-09-24 19:34:02
Awesome, let's get started!
Awesome, let's get started!
kge
2021-09-24 19:34:13
Have you ever solved a complex problem with lots of interlocking parts? That's the spirit of analyzing and puzzling out that we will be embodying.
Have you ever solved a complex problem with lots of interlocking parts? That's the spirit of analyzing and puzzling out that we will be embodying.
kge
2021-09-24 19:34:20
As a short teaser, I'll tell you the title of the poem now. Here it is:
As a short teaser, I'll tell you the title of the poem now. Here it is:
kge
2021-09-24 19:34:25
[in Just-]
[in Just-]
kge
2021-09-24 19:34:35
What do you notice about this title?
What do you notice about this title?
LucaTu1
2021-09-24 19:35:09
Brackets?
Brackets?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:35:09
Injustice?
Injustice?
aflhas
2021-09-24 19:35:09
the brackets and the dash, the first in isnt capitalized?
the brackets and the dash, the first in isnt capitalized?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 19:35:09
it's got math symbols in it?
it's got math symbols in it?
SugarRush
2021-09-24 19:35:09
it's capitalized wierdly....
it's capitalized wierdly....
veegan.meegan12
2021-09-24 19:35:25
Unfinished
Unfinished
kge
2021-09-24 19:35:31
Right, it has really weird formatting!
Right, it has really weird formatting!
kge
2021-09-24 19:35:47
It also makes it not very clear what the poem will be about...
It also makes it not very clear what the poem will be about...
kge
2021-09-24 19:35:48
What does that make you think the poem will look like?
What does that make you think the poem will look like?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:36:27
It is written in a unique way?
It is written in a unique way?
interactivemath
2021-09-24 19:36:27
Also have really weird formatting.
Also have really weird formatting.
SapphireSparrow
2021-09-24 19:36:27
Odd and incomplete
Odd and incomplete
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 19:36:27
A poem with weird formatting?
A poem with weird formatting?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:36:27
or maybe the text style will be different than other poems we might see>
or maybe the text style will be different than other poems we might see>
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 19:36:27
we
ird
ly
form
atte
d
we
ird
ly
form
atte
d
Blueclay
2021-09-24 19:36:27
E.E. Cummings has his own definition of punctuation!
E.E. Cummings has his own definition of punctuation!
kge
2021-09-24 19:36:41
Yeah, we probably expect the poem to have some strange formatting too. Let's keep that in mind and see if we can figure out how and why the author is doing that.
Yeah, we probably expect the poem to have some strange formatting too. Let's keep that in mind and see if we can figure out how and why the author is doing that.
kge
2021-09-24 19:37:06
Maybe there will be some strange punctuation, or capitalization. Let's take a look!
Maybe there will be some strange punctuation, or capitalization. Let's take a look!
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 19:37:13
give us the poem!!
give us the poem!!
kge
2021-09-24 19:37:17
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
kge
2021-09-24 19:37:27
Can you all read that okay?
Can you all read that okay?
kge
2021-09-24 19:37:44
You can also click on the images to zoom in.
You can also click on the images to zoom in.
Math2you2
2021-09-24 19:37:56
It's a little small! But I found it online: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47247/in-just
It's a little small! But I found it online: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47247/in-just
kge
2021-09-24 19:38:47
What's the first thing that strikes you as interesting about this poem?
What's the first thing that strikes you as interesting about this poem?
Adul
2021-09-24 19:39:13
distancingdue to covid to express far
distancing
TejasG
2021-09-24 19:39:13
that's some punctuation all right!
that's some punctuation all right!
Morrigan_Black
2021-09-24 19:39:13
the grammar
the grammar
OrigamiKiddo
2021-09-24 19:39:13
there are lots of spaces
there are lots of spaces
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 19:39:13
everything is lowercase. plus weird spacing.. l ike t h is
everything is lowercase. plus weird spacing.. l ike t h is
LucaTu1
2021-09-24 19:39:13
Missing words.
Missing words.
TatvaD
2021-09-24 19:39:23
They use weird vocabulary!
They use weird vocabulary!
kge
2021-09-24 19:39:27
Right! It's written with really unusual form -- some of the words are joinedtogether, there are some large empty spaces, and lines end at
Right! It's written with really unusual form -- some of the words are joinedtogether, there are some large empty spaces, and lines end at
kge
2021-09-24 19:39:36
strange places.
strange places.
kge
2021-09-24 19:39:51
Take a few minutes to read and digest this poem, perhaps a second time.
Take a few minutes to read and digest this poem, perhaps a second time.
kge
2021-09-24 19:40:02
As you're reading, think about not just what does this poem means, but also how the poet helps us get to a place where we understand it.
As you're reading, think about not just what does this poem means, but also how the poet helps us get to a place where we understand it.
kge
2021-09-24 19:40:50
We aren’t just asking “what is this poem about” we also want to know “how does the poet help us get to a place where we understand it?” And how could we emulate that in our own writing, perhaps?
We aren’t just asking “what is this poem about” we also want to know “how does the poet help us get to a place where we understand it?” And how could we emulate that in our own writing, perhaps?
kge
2021-09-24 19:40:54
Also I don’t care really exactly what it means, I care that you can come up with a unifying theory, defend it, and be open to ambiguity.
Also I don’t care really exactly what it means, I care that you can come up with a unifying theory, defend it, and be open to ambiguity.
Wanling
2021-09-24 19:41:08
the syntax is very different
the syntax is very different
alphatrex
2021-09-24 19:41:08
Does it have a sort of beat?? Like, a sort of tune that is written out by the spacings in the poem?
Does it have a sort of beat?? Like, a sort of tune that is written out by the spacings in the poem?
MathCT
2021-09-24 19:41:08
childhood happy place, playing in the mud, rain puddles
childhood happy place, playing in the mud, rain puddles
Math2you2
2021-09-24 19:41:08
I feel like you can reorganize the words
I feel like you can reorganize the words
kge
2021-09-24 19:41:21
These are all great observations! Let's try to dig in.
These are all great observations! Let's try to dig in.
kge
2021-09-24 19:41:31
You might have some questions or confusions after reading the poem once. When we try to solve a (math or LA) problem, what are some good first strategies?
You might have some questions or confusions after reading the poem once. When we try to solve a (math or LA) problem, what are some good first strategies?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:42:15
break it down
break it down
SugarRush
2021-09-24 19:42:15
reread the problem
reread the problem
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:42:15
into smaller parts so we understand a little better
into smaller parts so we understand a little better
Math985688
2021-09-24 19:42:15
Look for certain details? Simplify things?
Look for certain details? Simplify things?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 19:42:15
(try to) understand the question?
(try to) understand the question?
kge
2021-09-24 19:42:23
Right, a great first strategy is to break it down into smaller pieces or to look at a simpler case.
Right, a great first strategy is to break it down into smaller pieces or to look at a simpler case.
kge
2021-09-24 19:42:30
How we could we divide a poem into smaller pieces though!?
How we could we divide a poem into smaller pieces though!?
vz2020
2021-09-24 19:43:17
thru the stanzas?
thru the stanzas?
Blueclay
2021-09-24 19:43:17
Take it stanza by stanza.
Take it stanza by stanza.
petruz
2021-09-24 19:43:17
look at stanzas or individual lines
look at stanzas or individual lines
ScoobySnacks22
2021-09-24 19:43:17
Maybe start with the first stanza
Maybe start with the first stanza
Math985688
2021-09-24 19:43:17
Maybe number the seperate "paragraphs" as in between the largest margins?
Maybe number the seperate "paragraphs" as in between the largest margins?
daniil
2021-09-24 19:43:27
Maybe cut it at the places where there are blank lines?
Maybe cut it at the places where there are blank lines?
kge
2021-09-24 19:43:29
Generally, if you've seen poems before, they're broken up into smaller parts called "stanzas." Usually we think of stanzas like paragraphs in a longer piece of text.
Generally, if you've seen poems before, they're broken up into smaller parts called "stanzas." Usually we think of stanzas like paragraphs in a longer piece of text.
kge
2021-09-24 19:43:41
What would be the "stanzas" here?
What would be the "stanzas" here?
kthakur2011
2021-09-24 19:44:46
"spring when the world is mud-
luscious the little
lame balloonman" might be one?
"spring when the world is mud-
luscious the little
lame balloonman" might be one?
alphatrex
2021-09-24 19:44:46
Whenever there is a huge space of white between areas filed with texts.
Whenever there is a huge space of white between areas filed with texts.
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 19:44:46
I think it would be like from the in just part to the lame balloonman
I think it would be like from the in just part to the lame balloonman
kge
2021-09-24 19:44:52
Yeah, we could think about stanzas based on where there are bigger line breaks.
Yeah, we could think about stanzas based on where there are bigger line breaks.
kge
2021-09-24 19:44:58
Or we could try to group by theme, by which parts repeat, or even by syllable count!
Or we could try to group by theme, by which parts repeat, or even by syllable count!
kge
2021-09-24 19:45:17
Counting all the syllables would take a long time though... so I encourage you to try that out on your own!
Counting all the syllables would take a long time though... so I encourage you to try that out on your own!
kge
2021-09-24 19:45:40
To help figure out where stanzas are, try reading the poem out loud to yourself. Where do you pause for more or less time? Where do you notice shifts in tone?
To help figure out where stanzas are, try reading the poem out loud to yourself. Where do you pause for more or less time? Where do you notice shifts in tone?
kge
2021-09-24 19:45:55
In this picture, click where you think the first stanza ends. We'll get to truly collaborate on figuring out this problem!
In this picture, click where you think the first stanza ends. We'll get to truly collaborate on figuring out this problem!
kge
2021-09-24 19:46:01
devenware
2021-09-24 19:55:26
Well, sorry about that!
Well, sorry about that!
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 19:55:49
what happened?
what happened?
devenware
2021-09-24 19:55:56
We had a little technical difficulty. We were about to try out a new interactive. We discovered:
We had a little technical difficulty. We were about to try out a new interactive. We discovered:
devenware
2021-09-24 19:56:02
it doesn't work.
it doesn't work.
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 19:56:10
Something the teacher posted broke the mathjam. At least the errors in the console looked like that.
Something the teacher posted broke the mathjam. At least the errors in the console looked like that.
devenware
2021-09-24 19:56:17
Yes, that's exactly right.
Yes, that's exactly right.
kge
2021-09-24 19:56:25
But have no fear! We are back on track
But have no fear! We are back on track
devenware
2021-09-24 19:56:34
We'll give it a minute to let people get back into the room.
We'll give it a minute to let people get back into the room.
Blueclay
2021-09-24 19:57:17
yay
yay
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 19:57:17
YAY!
YAY!
numberworld
2021-09-24 19:57:17
hi
hi
devenware
2021-09-24 19:57:36
People are trickling back in!
People are trickling back in!
kge
2021-09-24 19:58:01
Yep, are we okay jumping back in?
Yep, are we okay jumping back in?
Blueclay
2021-09-24 19:58:16
YES
YES
MathCT
2021-09-24 19:58:16
yes
yes
kge
2021-09-24 19:58:32
Awesome! We were just talking about how we could break up the poem into smaller parts
Awesome! We were just talking about how we could break up the poem into smaller parts
kge
2021-09-24 19:58:46
Here's the poem again as a refresher
Here's the poem again as a refresher
kge
2021-09-24 19:58:53
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
kge
2021-09-24 19:59:18
We're going to divide it into three sections each of which ends with some variation of "far and wee"
We're going to divide it into three sections each of which ends with some variation of "far and wee"
Math2you2
2021-09-24 19:59:29
Link again for those who need it
: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47247/in-just
Link again for those who need it
: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47247/in-just
kge
2021-09-24 19:59:34
Let's take a look at the first section. Here it is for convenience.
Let's take a look at the first section. Here it is for convenience.
kge
2021-09-24 19:59:36
kge
2021-09-24 19:59:40
What's the most intriguing part of this "stanza" for you?
What's the most intriguing part of this "stanza" for you?
LucaTu1
2021-09-24 20:00:28
balloonman
balloonman
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:00:28
There are a lot of soft sounds.
There are a lot of soft sounds.
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:00:28
It starts of with in just which is in the title...
It starts of with in just which is in the title...
Midir
2021-09-24 20:00:28
The spacing
The spacing
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:00:28
the break in the second line
the break in the second line
violin21
2021-09-24 20:00:28
"mudluscious"
"mudluscious"
kge
2021-09-24 20:00:33
Those aspects are all really interesting!
Those aspects are all really interesting!
kge
2021-09-24 20:00:40
In particular, the use of hyphens in this section is a bit strange.
In particular, the use of hyphens in this section is a bit strange.
kge
2021-09-24 20:00:51
It's cool that Cummings decided to put mud-luscious together with a hyphen, but also separate it with a line break.
It's cool that Cummings decided to put mud-luscious together with a hyphen, but also separate it with a line break.
kge
2021-09-24 20:01:01
Why is there a hyphen after "Just"? When are hyphens usually used?
Why is there a hyphen after "Just"? When are hyphens usually used?
LucaTu1
2021-09-24 20:01:52
when a word spills into the next line
when a word spills into the next line
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:01:52
to connect words
to connect words
Midir
2021-09-24 20:01:52
For clarifications or addition of more information
For clarifications or addition of more information
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:01:52
combining two words like in-between or when the word is split in between lines
combining two words like in-between or when the word is split in between lines
kge
2021-09-24 20:02:00
Right, hyphens usually mean we're trying to join two words together, like in the compounds "father-in-law" or "two-fold".
Right, hyphens usually mean we're trying to join two words together, like in the compounds "father-in-law" or "two-fold".
kge
2021-09-24 20:02:09
That could suggest that Cummings is trying to join together "Just" and "spring" despite the line break.
That could suggest that Cummings is trying to join together "Just" and "spring" despite the line break.
kge
2021-09-24 20:02:21
Anything else you notice about this first line?
Anything else you notice about this first line?
violin21
2021-09-24 20:03:09
Just is capital
Just is capital
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:03:09
J is capitalized
J is capitalized
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:03:09
the big space after spring
the big space after spring
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:03:09
I isn't capitalized
I isn't capitalized
kge
2021-09-24 20:03:14
Right, "Just" is also capitalized. Where are capital letters usually found?
Right, "Just" is also capitalized. Where are capital letters usually found?
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:03:43
beginning of sentences
beginning of sentences
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:03:43
proper nouns or names
proper nouns or names
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:03:43
proper nouns, start of sentences
proper nouns, start of sentences
Leja
2021-09-24 20:03:43
beginning of a sentence or proper noun
beginning of a sentence or proper noun
kge
2021-09-24 20:03:51
Capital letters are usually at the beginning of a sentence. Hm, does that mean we could re-arrange the first two lines to be "Just in spring..."?
Capital letters are usually at the beginning of a sentence. Hm, does that mean we could re-arrange the first two lines to be "Just in spring..."?
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:04:24
in -just, just-in?
in -just, just-in?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:04:24
yes!
yes!
Kar_butterfly
2021-09-24 20:04:24
no
no
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:04:24
maybe?
maybe?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:04:24
Spring in just?
Spring in just?
ObtuseAngle110
2021-09-24 20:04:24
Maayybbe?
Maayybbe?
kge
2021-09-24 20:04:34
Yeah this is an interesting interpretation but maybe not the most convincing...
Yeah this is an interesting interpretation but maybe not the most convincing...
ObtuseAngle110
2021-09-24 20:04:46
Let's try that and see if it makes sense with the rest of the stuff
Let's try that and see if it makes sense with the rest of the stuff
kge
2021-09-24 20:05:02
If cummings wanted us to rearrange it, what would the first two lines mean?
If cummings wanted us to rearrange it, what would the first two lines mean?
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:05:37
Just in spring when the world is mud
Just in spring when the world is mud
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:05:37
Just in spring when the world is mud-
Just in spring when the world is mud-
kge
2021-09-24 20:05:50
So perhaps he's trying to say that only in spring is the world mud-luscious.
So perhaps he's trying to say that only in spring is the world mud-luscious.
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:06:14
Maybe!
Maybe!
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:06:14
i'm not convinced
i'm not convinced
kge
2021-09-24 20:06:22
This is possible, but what's another interpretation of the "Just-" ?
This is possible, but what's another interpretation of the "Just-" ?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:07:16
what is just?
what is just?
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:07:16
Justice
Justice
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 20:07:16
fair
fair
Kar_butterfly
2021-09-24 20:07:16
"based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair."
"based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair."
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:07:16
beginning? of spring
beginning? of spring
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:07:16
Maybe you have to put just at the start of every like so like: just spring when the world is mud. Just luscious the little
Maybe you have to put just at the start of every like so like: just spring when the world is mud. Just luscious the little
kge
2021-09-24 20:07:30
Right, the word "Just" could be modifying "spring" like another compound word.
Right, the word "Just" could be modifying "spring" like another compound word.
kge
2021-09-24 20:07:32
What would "Just-spring" mean?
What would "Just-spring" mean?
ED808
2021-09-24 20:07:53
at the beginning of spring?
at the beginning of spring?
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 20:07:53
fair spring?
fair spring?
mc21s
2021-09-24 20:07:53
spring has only just started
spring has only just started
kge
2021-09-24 20:08:02
Just-spring could mean right at the beginning of spring, when animals are just waking up and flowers are starting to bloom.
Just-spring could mean right at the beginning of spring, when animals are just waking up and flowers are starting to bloom.
kge
2021-09-24 20:08:14
Take your pick of which interpretation of "Just-" you like better, but here's a thought, too. Maybe Cummings intentionally wrote in all of this ambiguity. Just so you could have a fun time thinking about his poem!
Take your pick of which interpretation of "Just-" you like better, but here's a thought, too. Maybe Cummings intentionally wrote in all of this ambiguity. Just so you could have a fun time thinking about his poem!
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:09:07
I am not sure.
I am not sure.
Sundew2008
2021-09-24 20:09:07
Spring is the only season important to Cummings?
Spring is the only season important to Cummings?
ObtuseAngle110
2021-09-24 20:09:07
What if its a different spring? Like the object spring or even "to spring upwards"
What if its a different spring? Like the object spring or even "to spring upwards"
kge
2021-09-24 20:09:30
Yep, there are a lot of interpretations, and some of them are probably kind of confusing... but that's part of why reading poetry is fun!
Yep, there are a lot of interpretations, and some of them are probably kind of confusing... but that's part of why reading poetry is fun!
kge
2021-09-24 20:09:50
So far, I'm pretty convinced that cummings is talking about the season of Springtime, when there's rain and puddles and mud
So far, I'm pretty convinced that cummings is talking about the season of Springtime, when there's rain and puddles and mud
kge
2021-09-24 20:09:59
So we know the poem begins by referring to the beginning of spring. Let's try to figure out what emotions cummings wants us to associate with this season.
So we know the poem begins by referring to the beginning of spring. Let's try to figure out what emotions cummings wants us to associate with this season.
kge
2021-09-24 20:10:09
In particular, how does cummings describe the world?
In particular, how does cummings describe the world?
SugarRush
2021-09-24 20:10:45
mud-luscious
mud-luscious
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:10:45
happy
happy
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:10:45
Quiet.... perhaps too quiet lol
Quiet.... perhaps too quiet lol
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:10:45
a little sad
a little sad
kge
2021-09-24 20:10:55
Yep, he uses the hyphenated (and separated by a line break) "mud- luscious".
Yep, he uses the hyphenated (and separated by a line break) "mud- luscious".
kge
2021-09-24 20:11:02
Notice that he also uses "lame" and "little", which all have a lot of that "ell" sound, kind of lyrical, long-winded, or luxuriant choices there, wouldn't you say?
Notice that he also uses "lame" and "little", which all have a lot of that "ell" sound, kind of lyrical, long-winded, or luxuriant choices there, wouldn't you say?
kge
2021-09-24 20:11:24
What emotions do those words inspire for you?
What emotions do those words inspire for you?
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:11:37
full of life
full of life
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:11:37
a cheerful and playful time, "luscious", "whistle", and "wee"
a cheerful and playful time, "luscious", "whistle", and "wee"
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:11:37
luscious, little, lame, and balloonman all have the 'L" sound in them
luscious, little, lame, and balloonman all have the 'L" sound in them
GalaxyLegend21
2021-09-24 20:11:53
depressing, maybe bored ones
depressing, maybe bored ones
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:11:53
Soft sounds mean tranquility.
Soft sounds mean tranquility.
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:11:53
lullaby
lullaby
kge
2021-09-24 20:12:09
Some of those are likely what cummings is associating with spring here. Ideas of being carefree, relaxing, and renewal. Maybe some sadness
Some of those are likely what cummings is associating with spring here. Ideas of being carefree, relaxing, and renewal. Maybe some sadness
kge
2021-09-24 20:12:25
Keep in mind your thoughts about the description "little and lame". We'll circle back to that since the balloonman comes up multiple times.
Keep in mind your thoughts about the description "little and lame". We'll circle back to that since the balloonman comes up multiple times.
kge
2021-09-24 20:12:41
Alright, so the first stanza sets the scene: springtime, joy, and growth.
Alright, so the first stanza sets the scene: springtime, joy, and growth.
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:12:50
I think it's like a balance or like how life is in general there is a balance between happy and sad
I think it's like a balance or like how life is in general there is a balance between happy and sad
kge
2021-09-24 20:12:57
Let's take a look at the second part. Here it is.
Let's take a look at the second part. Here it is.
kge
2021-09-24 20:13:02
kge
2021-09-24 20:13:17
Again we've got a lot of words squishedtogether. What does "puddle-wonderful" make you feel?
Again we've got a lot of words squishedtogether. What does "puddle-wonderful" make you feel?
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:14:02
Wonderful; full of puddles
Wonderful; full of puddles
ED808
2021-09-24 20:14:02
joy of jumping puddles as a little kid
joy of jumping puddles as a little kid
kthakur2011
2021-09-24 20:14:02
full of puddles, something fun!
full of puddles, something fun!
SugarRush
2021-09-24 20:14:02
a balance of sadness(rain from which the puddle came from) and happy
a balance of sadness(rain from which the puddle came from) and happy
krishiam
2021-09-24 20:14:02
It makes me feel happy
It makes me feel happy
GalaxyLegend21
2021-09-24 20:14:02
a "splash" of wonder (sorry for the pun not intentional)
a "splash" of wonder (sorry for the pun not intentional)
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:14:07
maybe I want to jump in some puddles??
maybe I want to jump in some puddles??
kge
2021-09-24 20:14:13
That phrasing makes me feel nostalgic, exuberant, and optimistic
That phrasing makes me feel nostalgic, exuberant, and optimistic
kge
2021-09-24 20:14:32
Why do you think "eddieandbill" are smooshed together? Does that kind of talking remind you of anyone?
Why do you think "eddieandbill" are smooshed together? Does that kind of talking remind you of anyone?
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:15:07
eddieandbill = Eddie and Bill?
eddieandbill = Eddie and Bill?
GalaxyLegend21
2021-09-24 20:15:07
what is Eddieandbill are those names?
what is Eddieandbill are those names?
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:15:07
Maybe they are very close friends or relatives??
Maybe they are very close friends or relatives??
kge
2021-09-24 20:15:26
What kind of people would smoosh eddieandbill together?
What kind of people would smoosh eddieandbill together?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:15:46
how little kids talk? really hyperactive and talkingreallyfast?
how little kids talk? really hyperactive and talkingreallyfast?
Katherine_2011
2021-09-24 20:15:46
eddieandbill=eddie and bill=some children?
eddieandbill=eddie and bill=some children?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:15:46
brothers?
brothers?
ED808
2021-09-24 20:15:46
brothers or best friends
brothers or best friends
Leja
2021-09-24 20:15:46
people who talk fast
people who talk fast
kge
2021-09-24 20:16:04
Yep, when kids are excited they sometimes put words together!
Yep, when kids are excited they sometimes put words together!
kge
2021-09-24 20:16:20
Maybe they're running around, out of breath, and excited. What age would you think eddieandbill are (is?)?
Maybe they're running around, out of breath, and excited. What age would you think eddieandbill are (is?)?
violin21
2021-09-24 20:16:58
5
5
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:16:58
4-8?
4-8?
Skyhigh1218
2021-09-24 20:16:58
young
young
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:16:58
5 and 6
5 and 6
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:16:58
7-13*(
7-13*(
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:16:58
6-7?
6-7?
kge
2021-09-24 20:17:05
Right, probably pretty young! And lots of the descriptions are words that a child might use! Especially the "puddle-wonderful".
Right, probably pretty young! And lots of the descriptions are words that a child might use! Especially the "puddle-wonderful".
kge
2021-09-24 20:17:10
I don't know about you, but when I was a kid (and now, too!) puddles were these joyous patches of splashy delight
I don't know about you, but when I was a kid (and now, too!) puddles were these joyous patches of splashy delight
kge
2021-09-24 20:17:21
That's got to point to something about the theme and setting of the poem. Cummings seems to be strongly associating spring with childhood. Even when "eddieandbill" is pretty rushed, how does Cummings manipulate our sense of time in this section?
That's got to point to something about the theme and setting of the poem. Cummings seems to be strongly associating spring with childhood. Even when "eddieandbill" is pretty rushed, how does Cummings manipulate our sense of time in this section?
cubi
2021-09-24 20:18:26
Cummings uses "come" instead of "comes" for eddieandbill, meaning they are two people
Cummings uses "come" instead of "comes" for eddieandbill, meaning they are two people
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:18:26
He makes us nostalgic and think of childhood and spring and moist?
He makes us nostalgic and think of childhood and spring and moist?
violin21
2021-09-24 20:18:26
S~L~O~W~L~Y
S~L~O~W~L~Y
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:18:26
It's the present because there will always be another spring.
It's the present because there will always be another spring.
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:18:26
the spacing helps with the timing
the spacing helps with the timing
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:18:26
Eddie and Bill are very lively and spunky children
Eddie and Bill are very lively and spunky children
mathisverynice
2021-09-24 20:18:26
I feel like the author is trying to establish the different periods of our life as seasons, being a little kid may feel carefree and fun, like the season spring
I feel like the author is trying to establish the different periods of our life as seasons, being a little kid may feel carefree and fun, like the season spring
Katherine_2011
2021-09-24 20:18:26
with line breaks?
with line breaks?
kge
2021-09-24 20:18:41
Exactly, with line breaks and all of that weird spacing.
Exactly, with line breaks and all of that weird spacing.
kge
2021-09-24 20:18:45
In particular, what does the line break between "piracies and it's / spring" evoke for you?
In particular, what does the line break between "piracies and it's / spring" evoke for you?
kge
2021-09-24 20:18:57
Think about how you might read that line break out loud.
Think about how you might read that line break out loud.
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:19:37
pause before spring... like a rhythm
pause before spring... like a rhythm
anc3
2021-09-24 20:19:37
the spring is separated like he just realized it was spring
the spring is separated like he just realized it was spring
SmallStone9
2021-09-24 20:19:37
its slightly slower
its slightly slower
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:19:37
I would skip a few seconds before reading the next phrase?
I would skip a few seconds before reading the next phrase?
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:19:37
maybe it's like reminiscing
maybe it's like reminiscing
kge
2021-09-24 20:19:45
Mhm, it's slower. Both concluding one thought and transitioning to another about spring (not just the kids).
Mhm, it's slower. Both concluding one thought and transitioning to another about spring (not just the kids).
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:19:55
maybe they want to go someplace better and its spring
maybe they want to go someplace better and its spring
kge
2021-09-24 20:19:58
The spacing brings a kind of expansiveness to this section, as if spring is stretching out ahead of us, ripe with possibility...
The spacing brings a kind of expansiveness to this section, as if spring is stretching out ahead of us, ripe with possibility...
kge
2021-09-24 20:20:15
Alright, there's a ton more we could talk about in the first two stanzas, but let's take a look at the last one.
Alright, there's a ton more we could talk about in the first two stanzas, but let's take a look at the last one.
kge
2021-09-24 20:20:25
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:21:05
bettyandisbel
bettyandisbel
TinMan
2021-09-24 20:21:05
woah
woah
mathisverynice
2021-09-24 20:21:05
Interesting, the spacing is weird again
Interesting, the spacing is weird again
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:21:05
children again!
children again!
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:21:05
Hey! There are "bettyandisbel" names stuck together again
Hey! There are "bettyandisbel" names stuck together again
kge
2021-09-24 20:21:15
Here, the "bettyandisbel" seems awfully familiar. What does it remind you of?
Here, the "bettyandisbel" seems awfully familiar. What does it remind you of?
kge
2021-09-24 20:21:22
Exactly, the "eddieandbill" blob from before. Putting these two pairs of names together was also probably an intentional choice. Do you notice any patterns between them?
Exactly, the "eddieandbill" blob from before. Putting these two pairs of names together was also probably an intentional choice. Do you notice any patterns between them?
alphatrex
2021-09-24 20:22:03
The arrangement of the words definetely changes the tone a lot
The arrangement of the words definetely changes the tone a lot
anc3
2021-09-24 20:22:03
eddieandbill haha
eddieandbill haha
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:22:03
rhyme sorta
rhyme sorta
mathkid124
2021-09-24 20:22:03
they also misspell isbel
they also misspell isbel
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:22:03
the sounds of both pairs blend together
the sounds of both pairs blend together
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:22:03
beTTy - eDDie
beTTy - eDDie
kge
2021-09-24 20:22:13
Great rhyming ear! If you rearrange them, you can get "betty and eddie" and "isbel and bill", which rhyme! I admit the isbel-bill rhyme is less strong, but it's pretty likely that's what Cummings was going for!
Great rhyming ear! If you rearrange them, you can get "betty and eddie" and "isbel and bill", which rhyme! I admit the isbel-bill rhyme is less strong, but it's pretty likely that's what Cummings was going for!
kge
2021-09-24 20:22:44
Why might he have also misspelled "isbel" ?
Why might he have also misspelled "isbel" ?
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:23:15
betty sounds like eddie, and isbel sounds like bill
betty sounds like eddie, and isbel sounds like bill
petruz
2021-09-24 20:23:15
eddy rhymes with betty, and is the third syllable both times
eddy rhymes with betty, and is the third syllable both times
SmallStone9
2021-09-24 20:23:15
to make it sound faster
to make it sound faster
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:23:15
Because children often misspell stuff?
Because children often misspell stuff?
Leja
2021-09-24 20:23:15
to make it one syllable
to make it one syllable
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:23:15
So it rhymes better...?
So it rhymes better...?
kge
2021-09-24 20:23:39
Great ideas! He's hinting at a child-like sense of writing the poem, as well as going for the rhymes that kids might pronounce.
Great ideas! He's hinting at a child-like sense of writing the poem, as well as going for the rhymes that kids might pronounce.
kge
2021-09-24 20:23:50
As a sidenote, you can also do this with "mud-luscious" and "puddle-wonderful" to get "mud puddle" and "luscious wonderful". Cool, but less clean.
As a sidenote, you can also do this with "mud-luscious" and "puddle-wonderful" to get "mud puddle" and "luscious wonderful". Cool, but less clean.
kge
2021-09-24 20:24:00
What else stands out to you about this "stanza"?
What else stands out to you about this "stanza"?
osunm
2021-09-24 20:24:41
all the spacing
all the spacing
mathkid124
2021-09-24 20:24:41
diagonal words
diagonal words
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:24:41
the arrangement of
and
the
Goat-footed
whistles
the arrangement of
and
the
Goat-footed
whistles
osunm
2021-09-24 20:24:41
and balloonMan
and balloonMan
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:24:41
the big spaces at the end make it seem almost songlike
the big spaces at the end make it seem almost songlike
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:24:41
slanted part and the word "goat-footed"
slanted part and the word "goat-footed"
cubi
2021-09-24 20:24:41
repetition of "far and wee"
repetition of "far and wee"
kge
2021-09-24 20:24:48
Yeah, cummings not only has weird spacing, it's like he's drawing with his words!
Yeah, cummings not only has weird spacing, it's like he's drawing with his words!
kge
2021-09-24 20:24:53
In particular, and, the, and goat-footed make this diagonal line across the page.
In particular, and, the, and goat-footed make this diagonal line across the page.
kge
2021-09-24 20:25:00
Now why on earth would he decide to do that?
Now why on earth would he decide to do that?
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:25:54
it makes a sense of movement
it makes a sense of movement
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:25:54
it's a diagonal
it's a diagonal
krishiam
2021-09-24 20:25:54
To show make the impression that in spring you are happy and creative
To show make the impression that in spring you are happy and creative
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:25:54
it indicates movement?
it indicates movement?
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:25:54
probably like idk it reminds me of children skipping and playfulness
probably like idk it reminds me of children skipping and playfulness
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:25:54
give an impression of distance?
give an impression of distance?
AGlovesreading
2021-09-24 20:26:10
to create movement?
to create movement?
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:26:10
maybe between the kids and the ballonman?
maybe between the kids and the ballonman?
kge
2021-09-24 20:26:16
Yep, the poem is now doing something interesting spatially, which might indicate something about the spatial arrangement of the characters in the poem. Or, Cummings could be directing us, the readers, about how to read this section.
Yep, the poem is now doing something interesting spatially, which might indicate something about the spatial arrangement of the characters in the poem. Or, Cummings could be directing us, the readers, about how to read this section.
kge
2021-09-24 20:26:30
Let's list some clues we can use to come to an interpretation of this choice. How, exactly, are these words arranged?
Let's list some clues we can use to come to an interpretation of this choice. How, exactly, are these words arranged?
anc3
2021-09-24 20:26:55
diagonally
diagonally
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:26:55
diagonally
diagonally
Katherine_2011
2021-09-24 20:26:55
diagonally, so that there are pauses but they're also continuous
diagonally, so that there are pauses but they're also continuous
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:26:55
steps
steps
yuanyuan100
2021-09-24 20:27:11
diagonaly and vertically, with one word on each line
diagonaly and vertically, with one word on each line
kge
2021-09-24 20:27:13
Exactly, there's one blank space between each, and they're lined up to point diagonally from top left to bottom right.
Exactly, there's one blank space between each, and they're lined up to point diagonally from top left to bottom right.
kge
2021-09-24 20:27:20
In particular, it seems like they "point" to the word "whistles" even though the beginning of that line is "balloonMan".
In particular, it seems like they "point" to the word "whistles" even though the beginning of that line is "balloonMan".
kge
2021-09-24 20:27:25
Why would Cummings direct our attention to the word "whistles"? Could he be directing the characters, or our attention?
Why would Cummings direct our attention to the word "whistles"? Could he be directing the characters, or our attention?
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:27:40
like, its going up in pitch maybe?
like, its going up in pitch maybe?
AGlovesreading
2021-09-24 20:27:40
maybe we lower the tone of our voice
maybe we lower the tone of our voice
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:27:40
maybe it's trying to make a picture?
maybe it's trying to make a picture?
kge
2021-09-24 20:27:49
It's like that line of thought fades into the distance... just like... the whistle... far and wee...
It's like that line of thought fades into the distance... just like... the whistle... far and wee...
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:28:10
maybe that's what the balloonMAn does to get the kids' attention to buy balloons?
maybe that's what the balloonMAn does to get the kids' attention to buy balloons?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:28:10
using sound as a "sensory detail"?
using sound as a "sensory detail"?
kge
2021-09-24 20:28:20
Right, by arranging these words spatially in a unique way, cummings is rearranging our mental image of the scene (perhaps leading the children away, towards that distant whistle).
Right, by arranging these words spatially in a unique way, cummings is rearranging our mental image of the scene (perhaps leading the children away, towards that distant whistle).
kge
2021-09-24 20:28:30
He's also enhancing our aural/sonic "picture" of how the whistle sounds, directing us as readers to imagine it.
He's also enhancing our aural/sonic "picture" of how the whistle sounds, directing us as readers to imagine it.
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:28:45
honestly the whole shape looks like a man's face from the side and the whistle is fading to the right
honestly the whole shape looks like a man's face from the side and the whistle is fading to the right
kge
2021-09-24 20:28:50
Very cool.
Very cool.
kge
2021-09-24 20:28:54
Let's dig deeper into this idea I said of "leading the children away." When the children are described, what verb is associated with them?
Let's dig deeper into this idea I said of "leading the children away." When the children are described, what verb is associated with them?
ED808
2021-09-24 20:29:32
come
come
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:29:32
hoping and jumping
hoping and jumping
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:29:32
dancing
dancing
kge
2021-09-24 20:29:48
Yep, but are they leaving something behind?
Yep, but are they leaving something behind?
cubi
2021-09-24 20:30:19
childhood
childhood
baobaoj
2021-09-24 20:30:19
spring
spring
anc3
2021-09-24 20:30:19
from their kid activities
from their kid activities
Leja
2021-09-24 20:30:19
their toys
their toys
Jua
2021-09-24 20:30:19
hopscotch and jump rope-?
hopscotch and jump rope-?
kge
2021-09-24 20:30:22
Exactly, eddieandbill and bettyandisbel are all coming away from their games (marbles, piracies, hop-scotch or jump-rope).
Exactly, eddieandbill and bettyandisbel are all coming away from their games (marbles, piracies, hop-scotch or jump-rope).
kge
2021-09-24 20:30:26
If they're going away from their games, where are they going towards?
If they're going away from their games, where are they going towards?
osunm
2021-09-24 20:31:04
THe baloonMan?
THe baloonMan?
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:31:04
Adulthood?
Adulthood?
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:31:04
is he like the Piping Piper?
is he like the Piping Piper?
cubi
2021-09-24 20:31:04
adulthood
adulthood
alphatrex
2021-09-24 20:31:04
A guy making balloons?
A guy making balloons?
kthakur2011
2021-09-24 20:31:08
after its says "far and wee" it describes children going somewhere, the balloonMan
after its says "far and wee" it describes children going somewhere, the balloonMan
kge
2021-09-24 20:31:19
That's an excellent interpretation. Perhaps they're transitioning away from more childish games to follow the balloonman away into some tentative future...
That's an excellent interpretation. Perhaps they're transitioning away from more childish games to follow the balloonman away into some tentative future...
kge
2021-09-24 20:31:25
Does that remind you of any other folklore or stories?
Does that remind you of any other folklore or stories?
anc3
2021-09-24 20:31:42
the futureee
the futureee
Jua
2021-09-24 20:31:42
pied piper
pied piper
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:31:42
pied piper
pied piper
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:31:47
oooh!! The Pied Piper!!! Also whistling there! Or piping
oooh!! The Pied Piper!!! Also whistling there! Or piping
kge
2021-09-24 20:31:54
Wonderful, it seems like cummings is referring to the Pied Piper of Hamelin here! As a quick refresher, the gist of the tale is that there was this man with a magical pipe who lured over a hundred children away from the town of Hamelin while their parents were at church. The children were never seen again...
Wonderful, it seems like cummings is referring to the Pied Piper of Hamelin here! As a quick refresher, the gist of the tale is that there was this man with a magical pipe who lured over a hundred children away from the town of Hamelin while their parents were at church. The children were never seen again...
kge
2021-09-24 20:32:12
Most versions of the tale paint the Pied Piper as a vengeful person who lured the children to their death.
Most versions of the tale paint the Pied Piper as a vengeful person who lured the children to their death.
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:32:29
morbid
morbid
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:32:29
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:32:29
eek
eek
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:32:29
Cruel!!
Cruel!!
kge
2021-09-24 20:32:30
Whoa, that's a pretty dark spin on this stanza.
Whoa, that's a pretty dark spin on this stanza.
kge
2021-09-24 20:32:35
Remember that the interpretation you take away is yours, and yours alone, so long as you can defend it! Cummings didn't put a big sign around this part saying Caution! PIED PIPER ALLUSION! so this is for sure not the only way to think about it.
Remember that the interpretation you take away is yours, and yours alone, so long as you can defend it! Cummings didn't put a big sign around this part saying Caution! PIED PIPER ALLUSION! so this is for sure not the only way to think about it.
kge
2021-09-24 20:32:48
Great work! This section, especially when paired with the one right before it, has a lot of great imagery. And it sure made us think a lot!
Great work! This section, especially when paired with the one right before it, has a lot of great imagery. And it sure made us think a lot!
kge
2021-09-24 20:33:00
Taking a broader view, there are 3 instances of "far and wee". What do you notice about how each instance differs from the others?
Taking a broader view, there are 3 instances of "far and wee". What do you notice about how each instance differs from the others?
SparklyFlowers
2021-09-24 20:33:13
poetry is fascinating
poetry is fascinating
kge
2021-09-24 20:33:17
I totally agree!
I totally agree!
Katherine_2011
2021-09-24 20:33:47
the spacing & line breaks
the spacing & line breaks
G.G.Otto
2021-09-24 20:33:47
how it is arranged; like the tone of the whistle is different
how it is arranged; like the tone of the whistle is different
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:33:47
Cummings separated them into their own sections
Cummings separated them into their own sections
kge
2021-09-24 20:33:52
Right, they sort of gradually increase in spacing. Here's a little graphic so that we don't have to scroll around a bunch.
Right, they sort of gradually increase in spacing. Here's a little graphic so that we don't have to scroll around a bunch.
kge
2021-09-24 20:33:55
kge
2021-09-24 20:34:00
Why do you think Cummings chose to do that?
Why do you think Cummings chose to do that?
Katherine_2011
2021-09-24 20:34:40
to make the different whistles sound different?
to make the different whistles sound different?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:34:40
far and wee must be how he describes the balloon mabn
far and wee must be how he describes the balloon mabn
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:34:40
to show distance, or difference?
to show distance, or difference?
osunm
2021-09-24 20:34:40
so we can imagine them going slowly away
so we can imagine them going slowly away
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:34:40
or he uses that to describe the actions of the balloon man
or he uses that to describe the actions of the balloon man
kge
2021-09-24 20:34:47
Adding extra spaces can help to spread out the way we read a poem. Just like smooshingtogether "eddieandbill" made us read their names in a rushed way, spacing things out spreads out the timeline.
Adding extra spaces can help to spread out the way we read a poem. Just like smooshingtogether "eddieandbill" made us read their names in a rushed way, spacing things out spreads out the timeline.
kge
2021-09-24 20:34:58
Here, it's pretty clear that Cummings wants these parts of the poem to be read more and more slowly.
Here, it's pretty clear that Cummings wants these parts of the poem to be read more and more slowly.
kge
2021-09-24 20:35:12
What does that make you think about how the whistling sound is progressing from stanza to stanza?
What does that make you think about how the whistling sound is progressing from stanza to stanza?
ED808
2021-09-24 20:35:48
creates a tune?
creates a tune?
MathCT
2021-09-24 20:35:48
suggest more distance
suggest more distance
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:35:48
to make it seem like you can hear the whistling in the distance
to make it seem like you can hear the whistling in the distance
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:35:48
Fainter and fainter
Fainter and fainter
yuanyuan100
2021-09-24 20:35:48
it's getting quieter
it's getting quieter
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:35:48
going m o r e s l o w l y ? maybe also farther away?
going m o r e s l o w l y ? maybe also farther away?
kge
2021-09-24 20:35:53
Great observations! It's pretty likely that the sound is getting farther away, and as a result that the scene is getting more unfocused as the children run away...
Great observations! It's pretty likely that the sound is getting farther away, and as a result that the scene is getting more unfocused as the children run away...
kge
2021-09-24 20:36:00
Each "far and wee" is also accompanied by its whistler, the balloonman.
Each "far and wee" is also accompanied by its whistler, the balloonman.
kge
2021-09-24 20:36:11
Who is the balloonman? What descriptions do we have of the balloonman?
Who is the balloonman? What descriptions do we have of the balloonman?
ED808
2021-09-24 20:36:48
is he a metaphor?
is he a metaphor?
Jua
2021-09-24 20:36:48
he's "goat-footed" and he probably has balloons
he's "goat-footed" and he probably has balloons
ED808
2021-09-24 20:36:48
little, lame, old, queer, goat-footed
little, lame, old, queer, goat-footed
GalaxyLegend21
2021-09-24 20:36:48
he is goat footed
he is goat footed
kge
2021-09-24 20:36:58
Exactly, he's "goat-footed". Whoa. Where have you heard that kind of description before? How do you feel about this revelation?
Exactly, he's "goat-footed". Whoa. Where have you heard that kind of description before? How do you feel about this revelation?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:37:33
like a satyr?
like a satyr?
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:37:33
not sure I get the reference
not sure I get the reference
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:37:33
well goat feet means small I'm interpreting...
well goat feet means small I'm interpreting...
alphatrex
2021-09-24 20:37:33
satyr? queer?
satyr? queer?
kge
2021-09-24 20:37:41
One possibility is that he is totally, 100% a goat. But cummings keeps referring to him as the balloon man, so probably not.
One possibility is that he is totally, 100% a goat. But cummings keeps referring to him as the balloon man, so probably not.
kge
2021-09-24 20:37:43
Hm, so what kind of creature has goat feet but also is a "man"?
Hm, so what kind of creature has goat feet but also is a "man"?
kge
2021-09-24 20:37:59
Great connection! It seems like Cummings is talking about a satyr, or a similar mythological being.
Great connection! It seems like Cummings is talking about a satyr, or a similar mythological being.
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:38:06
Greek mythology has people with goat legs
Greek mythology has people with goat legs
aquaalicorn
2021-09-24 20:38:06
satyr, faun
satyr, faun
anc3
2021-09-24 20:38:06
satyr!
satyr!
aflhas
2021-09-24 20:38:17
the god pan
the god pan
GalaxyLegend21
2021-09-24 20:38:17
PAN!
PAN!
yuanyuan100
2021-09-24 20:38:17
greek god pan?
greek god pan?
ObtuseAngle110
2021-09-24 20:38:17
A Satyr from Greek Mythology, Basically, Grover
A Satyr from Greek Mythology, Basically, Grover
kge
2021-09-24 20:38:31
Wonderful work connecting this to the Greek god Pan!
Wonderful work connecting this to the Greek god Pan!
kge
2021-09-24 20:38:38
In Greek mythology, Pan is the god of the wild. He's associated with shepherds and flocks, wild nature, and fertility. His bodily form is like the faun or satyr: he has the horns and legs of a goat.
In Greek mythology, Pan is the god of the wild. He's associated with shepherds and flocks, wild nature, and fertility. His bodily form is like the faun or satyr: he has the horns and legs of a goat.
anc3
2021-09-24 20:38:53
pied piper played the flute/reed instrument, and so did satyrs
pied piper played the flute/reed instrument, and so did satyrs
TheReader
2021-09-24 20:38:53
yes grover!!11
yes grover!!11
kge
2021-09-24 20:38:58
Pan shows up in a lot of places (in fact, Pan is the root of the word "panic", and Pan also plays a wind instrument! called the Pan pipes!) One of those places seems to be right here!
Pan shows up in a lot of places (in fact, Pan is the root of the word "panic", and Pan also plays a wind instrument! called the Pan pipes!) One of those places seems to be right here!
kge
2021-09-24 20:39:03
What stories have you heard about Pan?
What stories have you heard about Pan?
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:40:03
He's naughty.
He's naughty.
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:40:03
Grover Underwood went looking for him
Grover Underwood went looking for him
TheReader
2021-09-24 20:40:03
he was the son of hermes
he was the son of hermes
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:40:03
He basically represents the ability of never growing up.
He basically represents the ability of never growing up.
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:40:03
Satyrs worship him
Satyrs worship him
kge
2021-09-24 20:40:12
That's exactly right! By alluding to the god Pan, Cummings brings in ideas about wildness, innocence, and fertility. He even seems to be contrasting the concepts of childhood spring and a "natural" or "wild" spring.
That's exactly right! By alluding to the god Pan, Cummings brings in ideas about wildness, innocence, and fertility. He even seems to be contrasting the concepts of childhood spring and a "natural" or "wild" spring.
kge
2021-09-24 20:40:24
Could we combine that with the Pied Piper myth we were thinking about before?
Could we combine that with the Pied Piper myth we were thinking about before?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:41:28
I think so..
I think so..
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:41:28
wow - a LOT of people read Percy Jackson here! ... maybe leading the children into the wild or natural spring away from the childhood spring?
wow - a LOT of people read Percy Jackson here! ... maybe leading the children into the wild or natural spring away from the childhood spring?
awesomeguy856
2021-09-24 20:41:28
nature, represented as the passing of time, is taking away the children's youths into adulthood
nature, represented as the passing of time, is taking away the children's youths into adulthood
Jua
2021-09-24 20:41:28
yes and pan lures them away with his pipes into the wilderness?
yes and pan lures them away with his pipes into the wilderness?
kge
2021-09-24 20:41:43
Really creative ideas here! Maybe cummings is associating the wildness of growing up with the unknown, perhaps even sinister eventuality of death. Or maybe he's trying to rewrite the Pied Piper myth by describing him as not just a vengeful mortal, but a fun-loving god.
Really creative ideas here! Maybe cummings is associating the wildness of growing up with the unknown, perhaps even sinister eventuality of death. Or maybe he's trying to rewrite the Pied Piper myth by describing him as not just a vengeful mortal, but a fun-loving god.
anc3
2021-09-24 20:41:56
childhood, innocent, pure spring leading to more dark and dangerous wilderness
childhood, innocent, pure spring leading to more dark and dangerous wilderness
wl8418
2021-09-24 20:41:56
Some children are vengeful. So if he represents the ability to not grow up ha represents an adult-child
Some children are vengeful. So if he represents the ability to not grow up ha represents an adult-child
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:41:59
maybe it's the story of how life is?
maybe it's the story of how life is?
kge
2021-09-24 20:42:06
Yeah, maybe cummings is simply projecting these images onto his adult vision of what childhood is like. You know best! And there's always the possibility that he's winking and saying, there's so many interpretations out there, take your pick!
Yeah, maybe cummings is simply projecting these images onto his adult vision of what childhood is like. You know best! And there's always the possibility that he's winking and saying, there's so many interpretations out there, take your pick!
kge
2021-09-24 20:42:22
We know he's writing about spring, childhood, perhaps loss of innocence and the transition to adulthood.
We know he's writing about spring, childhood, perhaps loss of innocence and the transition to adulthood.
kge
2021-09-24 20:42:28
After all of our work today, how does the last section make you feel?
After all of our work today, how does the last section make you feel?
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:43:20
sad...
sad...
Blueclay
2021-09-24 20:43:20
It makes me feel old.
It makes me feel old.
Jua
2021-09-24 20:43:20
wow i would never have expected this much meaning behind "goat footed balloonman"
wow i would never have expected this much meaning behind "goat footed balloonman"
cubi
2021-09-24 20:43:20
sad even though I am still a child
sad even though I am still a child
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:43:20
hmm, kind of creepy, unsure, maybe more dark than the previous stanzas
hmm, kind of creepy, unsure, maybe more dark than the previous stanzas
AGlovesreading
2021-09-24 20:43:31
I think it is a cliffhanger
I think it is a cliffhanger
Beast_Academic_Emma
2021-09-24 20:43:35
nostalgic...
nostalgic...
kge
2021-09-24 20:43:39
Great answers. I'm seeing melancholy, hopeful, a little scared, ... Now I want you to try something.
Great answers. I'm seeing melancholy, hopeful, a little scared, ... Now I want you to try something.
kge
2021-09-24 20:43:46
Read the poem out loud, from the beginning, in your best poetry-reading voice. Pause where you think you should pause. And feel everything that comes up for you.
Read the poem out loud, from the beginning, in your best poetry-reading voice. Pause where you think you should pause. And feel everything that comes up for you.
kge
2021-09-24 20:44:10
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
[in Just-]
BY E. E. CUMMINGS
SmartGroot
2021-09-24 20:44:42
maybe that life seems long but it's actually really short and there's only a limited amount of time..
maybe that life seems long but it's actually really short and there's only a limited amount of time..
suave_outlaw
2021-09-24 20:44:42
out loud? embarrassing - my little sister is literally right next to me taking an AoPS class... she'll look at me REALLY weird if I start reciting a poem..
out loud? embarrassing - my little sister is literally right next to me taking an AoPS class... she'll look at me REALLY weird if I start reciting a poem..
kge
2021-09-24 20:44:52
Sometimes being a student of poetry gets a little weird!
Sometimes being a student of poetry gets a little weird!
kge
2021-09-24 20:45:12
Whatever you all are feeling, I think that's what cummings is trying to say about this pivotal moment between childhood and adulthood.
Whatever you all are feeling, I think that's what cummings is trying to say about this pivotal moment between childhood and adulthood.
kge
2021-09-24 20:45:24
Thank you so much for joining me in this poetry jam exploration! Feel free to ask me anything you'd like, and I hope to see you at the next one
Thank you so much for joining me in this poetry jam exploration! Feel free to ask me anything you'd like, and I hope to see you at the next one
MumberZ
2021-09-24 20:45:55
thank you, it was really fun!
thank you, it was really fun!
Math2you2
2021-09-24 20:45:55
I loved this first poetry jam and I hope you make more! Thank you so much for hosting! <3
I loved this first poetry jam and I hope you make more! Thank you so much for hosting! <3
yuanyuan100
2021-09-24 20:45:55
Thank you
Thank you
Jua
2021-09-24 20:45:55
thank you bye
thank you bye
devenware
2021-09-24 20:46:01
Thank you for joining us!
Thank you for joining us!
devenware
2021-09-24 20:46:14
And thanks to Karen for writing and teaching this class.
And thanks to Karen for writing and teaching this class.
kge
2021-09-24 20:46:40
You all have been amazing students! Thank you for participating!
You all have been amazing students! Thank you for participating!
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