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k a May Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Thursday at 11:16 PM
May is an exciting month! National MATHCOUNTS is the second week of May in Washington D.C. and our Founder, Richard Rusczyk will be presenting a seminar, Preparing Strong Math Students for College and Careers, on May 11th.

Are you interested in working towards MATHCOUNTS and don’t know where to start? We have you covered! If you have taken Prealgebra, then you are ready for MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics. Already aiming for State or National MATHCOUNTS and harder AMC 8 problems? Then our MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced course is for you.

Summer camps are starting next month at the Virtual Campus in math and language arts that are 2 - to 4 - weeks in duration. Spaces are still available - don’t miss your chance to have an enriching summer experience. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following upcoming events:
[list][*]May 9th, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, Casework 2: Overwhelming Evidence — A Text Adventure, a game where participants will work together to navigate the map, solve puzzles, and win! All are welcome.
[*]May 19th, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, What's Next After Beast Academy?, designed for students finishing Beast Academy and ready for Prealgebra 1.
[*]May 20th, 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Mathcamp 2025 Qualifying Quiz Part 1 Math Jam, Problems 1 to 4, join the Canada/USA Mathcamp staff for this exciting Math Jam, where they discuss solutions to Problems 1 to 4 of the 2025 Mathcamp Qualifying Quiz!
[*]May 21st, 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Mathcamp 2025 Qualifying Quiz Part 2 Math Jam, Problems 5 and 6, Canada/USA Mathcamp staff will discuss solutions to Problems 5 and 6 of the 2025 Mathcamp Qualifying Quiz![/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Thursday at 11:16 PM
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
3-var inequality
sqing   0
6 minutes ago
Source: Own
Let $ a,b,c\geq 0 ,a+b+c =1. $ Prove that
$$\frac{ab}{2c+1} +\frac{bc}{2a+1} +\frac{ca}{2b+1}+\frac{27}{20} abc\leq \frac{1}{4} $$
0 replies
1 viewing
sqing
6 minutes ago
0 replies
Inspired by giangtruong13
sqing   3
N 15 minutes ago by sqing
Source: Own
Let $ a,b \geq 0 $ and $a^3-b^3=2 $.Prove that $$ a^2-ab+b^2 \geq   \sqrt[3]{2}  $$Let $ a,b \geq 0 $ and $a^3+b^3=2 $.Prove that $$ 3\geq a^2+ab+b^2 \geq   \sqrt[3]{4}  $$
3 replies
sqing
an hour ago
sqing
15 minutes ago
Very easy case of a folklore polynomial equation
Assassino9931   2
N 27 minutes ago by luutrongphuc
Source: Bulgaria EGMO TST 2025 P6
Determine all polynomials $P(x)$ of odd degree with real coefficients such that $P(x^2 + 2025) = P(x)^2 + 2025$.
2 replies
1 viewing
Assassino9931
4 hours ago
luutrongphuc
27 minutes ago
Something nice
KhuongTrang   30
N 41 minutes ago by KhuongTrang
Source: own
Problem. Given $a,b,c$ be non-negative real numbers such that $ab+bc+ca=1.$ Prove that

$$\sqrt{a+1}+\sqrt{b+1}+\sqrt{c+1}\le 1+2\sqrt{a+b+c+abc}.$$
30 replies
KhuongTrang
Nov 1, 2023
KhuongTrang
41 minutes ago
1000th Post!!!
jkim0656   14
N 2 hours ago by PikaPika999
Hey AoPS,
Wow.
It's aready my 1000th post :)
Time flies...

Anw as usualllllll
Math Story!:
Kindergarden:
Me No remember :skull:
First grade:
My mom started making me do math worksheets. There was a bit of ... anger ... in the family if i messed up on them lol :)
Second grade:
Nothing rlly... Covid started at the end of my school year :(
Third grade:
Ohh the covid years
:sob:
Online classes were like POV: lemme turn video off and do whatevs the rest of the day
It was like teachers gotta teach -- nope!
I think I really got into math classes around here on online math.
Forth grade:
Back at school!
I don't mean to brag but a lot of people at school thought I was really smart :blush: but on AoPS... *cough* *cough*
Fifth grade:
NOW things get funnnnn
I took my first AMC8 -> 17 :)
I was happy...
yayyaya!
I made HR btw :)
6th grade:
I took the amc8 at my school on a digital computer...
I wanna cry -> Click to reveal hidden text
7th grade (now):
AMC 8 -> I sold a 20 :(
AMC10 ->
IMPORTANT: RULE OF AOPS
EVERYONE HAS A 140 ON THE 10 AND 12 BESIDES YOU
-> *HIDES IN SHAME* Click to reveal hidden text
Mathcounts chapter -> 34 ...
...
lets not talk abt it :)

Ok that's it for me :)
Sry for not using hide tags...:)
~jkim
14 replies
jkim0656
Apr 27, 2025
PikaPika999
2 hours ago
max number of candies
orangefronted   7
N 2 hours ago by ericheathclifffry
A store sells a strawberry flavoured candy for 1 dollar each. The store offers a promo where every 4 candy wrappers can be exchanged for one candy. If there is no limit to how many times you can exchange candy wrappers for candies, what is the maximum number of candies I can obtain with 100 dollars?
7 replies
orangefronted
Apr 3, 2025
ericheathclifffry
2 hours ago
What's the chance that two AoPS accounts generate with the same icon?
Math-lover1   5
N 2 hours ago by Math-lover1
So I've been wondering how many possible "icons" can be generated when you first create an account. By "icon" I mean the stack of cubes as the first profile picture before changing it.

I don't know a lot about how AoPS icons generate, so I have a few questions:
- Do the colors on AoPS icons generate through a preset of colors or the RGB (red, green, blue in hexadecimal form) scale? If it generates through the RGB scale, then there may be greater than $256^3 = 16777216$ different icons.
- Do the arrangements of the stacks of blocks in the icon change with each account? If so, I think we can calculate this through considering each stack of blocks independently.
5 replies
Math-lover1
Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Math-lover1
2 hours ago
Math Problem I cant figure out how to do without bashing
equalsmc2   5
N 2 hours ago by nmlikesmath
Hi,
I cant figure out how to do these 2 problems without bashing. Do you guys have any ideas for an elegant solution? Thank you!
Prob 1.
An RSM sports field has a square shape. Poles with letters M, A, T, H are located at the corners of the square (see the diagram). During warm up, a student starts at any pole, runs to another pole along a side of the square or across the field along diagonal MT (only in the direction from M to T), then runs to another pole along a side of the square or along diagonal MT, and so on. The student cannot repeat a run along the same side/diagonal of the square in the same direction. For instance, she cannot run from M to A twice, but she can run from M to A and at some point from A to M. How many different ways are there to complete the warm up that includes all nine possible runs (see the diagram)? One possible way is M-A-T-H-M-H-T-A-M-T (picture attached)

Prob 2.
In the expression 5@5@5@5@5 you replace each of the four @ symbols with either +, or, or x, or . You can insert one or more pairs of parentheses to control the order of operations. Find the second least whole number that CANNOT be the value of the resulting expression. For example, each of the numbers 25=5+5+5+5+5 and 605+(5+5)×5+5 can be the value of the resulting expression.

Prob 3. (This isnt bashing I don't understand how to do it though)
Suppose BC = 3AB in rectangle ABCD. Points E and F are on side BC such that BE = EF = FC. Compute the sum of the degree measures of the four angles EAB, EAF, EAC, EAD.

P.S. These are from an RSM olympiad. The answers are
5 replies
equalsmc2
Apr 6, 2025
nmlikesmath
2 hours ago
2025 MATHCOUNTS State Hub
SirAppel   597
N 3 hours ago by ericheathclifffry
Previous Years' "Hubs": (2022) (2023) (2024)Please Read

Now that it's April and we're allowed to discuss ...
[list=disc]
[*] CA: 43 (45 44 43 43 43 42 42 41 41 41)
[*] NJ: 43 (45 44 44 43 39 42 40 40 39 38) *
[*] NY: 42 (43 42 42 42 41 40)
[*] TX: 42 (43 43 43 42 42 40 40 38 38 38)
[*] MA: 41 (45 43 42 41)
[*] WA: 41 (41 45 42 41 41 41 41 41 41 40) *
[*]VA: 40 (41 40 40 40)
[*] FL: 39 (42 41 40 39 38 37 37)
[*] IN: 39 (41 40 40 39 36 35 35 35 34 34)
[*] NC: 39 (42 42 41 39)
[*] IL: 38 (41 40 39 38 38 38)
[*] OR: 38 (44 39 38 38)
[*] PA: 38 (41 40 40 38 38 37 36 36 34 34) *
[*] MD: 37 (43 39 39 37 37 37)
[*] AZ: 36 (40? 39? 39 36)
[*] CT: 36 (44 38 38 36 35 35 34 34 34 33 33 32 32 32 32)
[*] MI: 36 (39 41 41 36 37 37 36 36 36 36) *
[*] MN: 36 (40 36 36 36 35 35 35 34)
[*] CO: 35 (41 37 37 35 35 35 ?? 31 31 30) *
[*] GA: 35 (38 37 36 35 34 34 34 34 34 33)
[*] OH: 35 (41 37 36 35)
[*] AR: 34 (46 45 35 34 33 31 31 31 29 29)
[*] NV: 34 (41 38 ?? 34)
[*] TN: 34 (38 ?? ?? 34)
[*] WI: 34 (40 37 37 34 35 30 28 29 29 29) *
[*] HI: 32 (35 34 32 32)
[*] NH: 31 (42 35 33 31 30)
[*] DE: 30 (34 33 32 30 30 29 28 27 26? 24)
[*] SC: 30 (33 33 31 30)
[*] IA: 29 (33 30 31 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29) *
[*] NE: 28 (34 30 28 28 27 27 26 26 25 25)
[*] SD: 22 (30 29 24 22 22 22 21 21 20 20)
[/list]
Cutoffs Unknown

* means that CDR is official in that state.

Notes

For those asking about the removal of the tiers, I'd like to quote Jason himself:
[quote=peace09]
learn from my mistakes
[/quote]

Help contribute by sharing your state's cutoffs!
597 replies
SirAppel
Apr 1, 2025
ericheathclifffry
3 hours ago
9 What is the most important topic in maths competition?
AVIKRIS   68
N 3 hours ago by Andrew2019
I think arithmetic is the most the most important topic in math competitions.
68 replies
AVIKRIS
Apr 19, 2025
Andrew2019
3 hours ago
9 AMC 10 Prep
bluedino24   6
N 3 hours ago by Andrew2019
I'm in 7th grade and thought it would be good to start preparing for the AMC 10. I'm not extremely good at math though.

I feel that I am better at Mathcounts than AMC 8. I got a 41 on chapter and did not take state (I was sick), and a 20 on the AMC 8 this year. Are there any parts to AMC 8 and 10 that are special, or any strategies? What are some important topics I should study? Please comment below. Thanks! :D
6 replies
bluedino24
6 hours ago
Andrew2019
3 hours ago
Math and AI 4 Girls
mkwhe   39
N 5 hours ago by WhitePhoenix
Hey everyone!

The 2025 MA4G competition is now open!

Apply Here: https://xmathandai4girls.submittable.com/submit


Visit https://www.mathandai4girls.org/ to get started!

Feel free to PM or email mathandai4girls@yahoo.com if you have any questions!
39 replies
mkwhe
Apr 5, 2025
WhitePhoenix
5 hours ago
Infinite product problem
ReticulatedPython   6
N Yesterday at 8:17 PM by ReticulatedPython
Compute $$\prod_{n=1}^{\infty}3^{\frac{1}{2^{n-1}}}+1$$
hint

The solution to this problem is pretty short once you find out the trick. :D
6 replies
ReticulatedPython
Yesterday at 7:17 PM
ReticulatedPython
Yesterday at 8:17 PM
9 Have you participated in the MATHCOUNTS competition?
aadimathgenius9   29
N Yesterday at 6:14 PM by hashbrown2009
Have you participated in the MATHCOUNTS competition before?
29 replies
aadimathgenius9
Jan 1, 2025
hashbrown2009
Yesterday at 6:14 PM
Nice sequence problem.
mathlover1231   0
Apr 10, 2025
Source: Own
Scientists found a new species of bird called “N-coloured rainbow”. They also found out 3 interesting facts about the bird’s life: 1) every day, N-coloured rainbow is coloured in one of N colors.
2) every day, the color is different from yesterday (not every previous day, just yesterday).
3) there are no four days i, j, k, l in the bird’s life such that i<j<k<l with colours a, b, c, d respectively for which a=c ≠ b=d.
Find the greatest possible age (in days) of this bird as a function of N.
0 replies
mathlover1231
Apr 10, 2025
0 replies
Nice sequence problem.
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: Own
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mathlover1231
7 posts
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Scientists found a new species of bird called “N-coloured rainbow”. They also found out 3 interesting facts about the bird’s life: 1) every day, N-coloured rainbow is coloured in one of N colors.
2) every day, the color is different from yesterday (not every previous day, just yesterday).
3) there are no four days i, j, k, l in the bird’s life such that i<j<k<l with colours a, b, c, d respectively for which a=c ≠ b=d.
Find the greatest possible age (in days) of this bird as a function of N.
Z K Y
N Quick Reply
G
H
=
a