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k a March Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Mar 2, 2025
March is the month for State MATHCOUNTS competitions! Kudos to everyone who participated in their local chapter competitions and best of luck to all going to State! Join us on March 11th for a Math Jam devoted to our favorite Chapter competition problems! Are you interested in training for MATHCOUNTS? Be sure to check out our AMC 8/MATHCOUNTS Basics and Advanced courses.

Are you ready to level up with Olympiad training? Registration is open with early bird pricing available for our WOOT programs: MathWOOT (Levels 1 and 2), CodeWOOT, PhysicsWOOT, and ChemWOOT. What is WOOT? WOOT stands for Worldwide Online Olympiad Training and is a 7-month high school math Olympiad preparation and testing program that brings together many of the best students from around the world to learn Olympiad problem solving skills. Classes begin in September!

Do you have plans this summer? There are so many options to fit your schedule and goals whether attending a summer camp or taking online classes, it can be a great break from the routine of the school year. Check out our summer courses at AoPS Online, or if you want a math or language arts class that doesn’t have homework, but is an enriching summer experience, our AoPS Virtual Campus summer camps may be just the ticket! We are expanding our locations for our AoPS Academies across the country with 15 locations so far and new campuses opening in Saratoga CA, Johns Creek GA, and the Upper West Side NY. Check out this page for summer camp information.

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]March 5th (Wednesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, HCSSiM Math Jam 2025. Amber Verser, Assistant Director of the Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics, will host an information session about HCSSiM, a summer program for high school students.
[*]March 6th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar on Math Competitions from elementary through high school. Join us for an enlightening session that demystifies the world of math competitions and helps you make informed decisions about your contest journey.
[*]March 11th (Tuesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MATHCOUNTS Chapter Discussion MATH JAM. AoPS instructors will discuss some of their favorite problems from the MATHCOUNTS Chapter Competition. All are welcome!
[*]March 13th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar about Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus. Transform your summer into an unforgettable learning adventure! From elementary through high school, we offer dynamic summer camps featuring topics in mathematics, language arts, and competition preparation - all designed to fit your schedule and ignite your passion for learning.[/list]
Our full course list for upcoming classes is below:
All classes run 7:30pm-8:45pm ET/4:30pm - 5:45pm PT unless otherwise noted.

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0 replies
jlacosta
Mar 2, 2025
0 replies
k i Suggestion Form
jwelsh   0
May 6, 2021
Hello!

Given the number of suggestions we’ve been receiving, we’re transitioning to a suggestion form. If you have a suggestion for the AoPS website, please submit the Google Form:
Suggestion Form

To keep all new suggestions together, any new suggestion threads posted will be deleted.

Please remember that if you find a bug outside of FTW! (after refreshing to make sure it’s not a glitch), make sure you’re following the How to write a bug report instructions and using the proper format to report the bug.

Please check the FTW! thread for bugs and post any new ones in the For the Win! and Other Games Support Forum.
0 replies
jwelsh
May 6, 2021
0 replies
k i Read me first / How to write a bug report
slester   3
N May 4, 2019 by LauraZed
Greetings, AoPS users!

If you're reading this post, that means you've come across some kind of bug, error, or misbehavior, which nobody likes! To help us developers solve the problem as quickly as possible, we need enough information to understand what happened. Following these guidelines will help us squash those bugs more effectively.

Before submitting a bug report, please confirm the issue exists in other browsers or other computers if you have access to them.

For a list of many common questions and issues, please see our user created FAQ, Community FAQ, or For the Win! FAQ.

What is a bug?
A bug is a misbehavior that is reproducible. If a refresh makes it go away 100% of the time, then it isn't a bug, but rather a glitch. That's when your browser has some strange file cached, or for some reason doesn't render the page like it should. Please don't report glitches, since we generally cannot fix them. A glitch that happens more than a few times, though, could be an intermittent bug.

If something is wrong in the wiki, you can change it! The AoPS Wiki is user-editable, and it may be defaced from time to time. You can revert these changes yourself, but if you notice a particular user defacing the wiki, please let an admin know.

The subject
The subject line should explain as clearly as possible what went wrong.

Bad: Forum doesn't work
Good: Switching between threads quickly shows blank page.

The report
Use this format to report bugs. Be as specific as possible. If you don't know the answer exactly, give us as much information as you know. Attaching a screenshot is helpful if you can take one.

Summary of the problem:
Page URL:
Steps to reproduce:
1.
2.
3.
...
Expected behavior:
Frequency:
Operating system(s):
Browser(s), including version:
Additional information:


If your computer or tablet is school issued, please indicate this under Additional information.

Example
Summary of the problem: When I click back and forth between two threads in the site support section, the content of the threads no longer show up. (See attached screenshot.)
Page URL: http://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c10_site_support
Steps to reproduce:
1. Go to the Site Support forum.
2. Click on any thread.
3. Click quickly on a different thread.
Expected behavior: To see the second thread.
Frequency: Every time
Operating system: Mac OS X
Browser: Chrome and Firefox
Additional information: Only happens in the Site Support forum. My tablet is school issued, but I have the problem at both school and home.

How to take a screenshot
Mac OS X: If you type ⌘+Shift+4, you'll get a "crosshairs" that lets you take a custom screenshot size. Just click and drag to select the area you want to take a picture of. If you type ⌘+Shift+4+space, you can take a screenshot of a specific window. All screenshots will show up on your desktop.

Windows: Hit the Windows logo key+PrtScn, and a screenshot of your entire screen. Alternatively, you can hit Alt+PrtScn to take a screenshot of the currently selected window. All screenshots are saved to the Pictures → Screenshots folder.

Advanced
If you're a bit more comfortable with how browsers work, you can also show us what happens in the JavaScript console.

In Chrome, type CTRL+Shift+J (Windows, Linux) or ⌘+Option+J (Mac).
In Firefox, type CTRL+Shift+K (Windows, Linux) or ⌘+Option+K (Mac).
In Internet Explorer, it's the F12 key.
In Safari, first enable the Develop menu: Preferences → Advanced, click "Show Develop menu in menu bar." Then either go to Develop → Show Error console or type Option+⌘+C.

It'll look something like this:
IMAGE
3 replies
slester
Apr 9, 2015
LauraZed
May 4, 2019
k i Community Safety
dcouchman   0
Jan 18, 2018
If you find content on the AoPS Community that makes you concerned for a user's health or safety, please alert AoPS Administrators using the report button (Z) or by emailing sheriff@aops.com . You should provide a description of the content and a link in your message. If it's an emergency, call 911 or whatever the local emergency services are in your country.

Please also use those steps to alert us if bullying behavior is being directed at you or another user. Content that is "unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable" (AoPS Terms of Service 5.d) or that otherwise bullies people is not tolerated on AoPS, and accounts that post such content may be terminated or suspended.
0 replies
dcouchman
Jan 18, 2018
0 replies
minimum value of S, ISI 2013
Sayan   13
N 4 minutes ago by Apple_maths60
Let $a,b,c$ be real number greater than $1$. Let
\[S=\log_a {bc}+\log_b {ca}+\log_c {ab}\]
Find the minimum possible value of $S$.
13 replies
1 viewing
Sayan
May 12, 2013
Apple_maths60
4 minutes ago
min A=x+1/x+y+1/y if 2(x+y)=1+xy for x,y>0 , 2020 ISL A3 for juniors
parmenides51   11
N 8 minutes ago by ali123456
Source: 2021 Greece JMO p1 (serves also as JBMO TST) / based on 2020 IMO ISL A3
If positive reals $x,y$ are such that $2(x+y)=1+xy$, find the minimum value of expression $$A=x+\frac{1}{x}+y+\frac{1}{y}$$
11 replies
parmenides51
Jul 21, 2021
ali123456
8 minutes ago
classical R+ FE
jasperE3   2
N 11 minutes ago by jasperE3
Source: kent2207, based on 2019 Slovenia TST
wanted to post this problem in its own thread: https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c6h1784825p34307772
Find all functions $f:\mathbb R^+\to\mathbb R^+$ for which:
$$f(f(x)+f(y))=yf(1+yf(x))$$for all $x,y\in\mathbb R^+$.
2 replies
jasperE3
Yesterday at 3:55 PM
jasperE3
11 minutes ago
Function equation
Dynic   1
N 13 minutes ago by jasperE3
Find all function $f:\mathbb{Z}\to\mathbb{Z}$ satisfy all conditions below:
i) $f(n+1)>f(n)$ for all $n\in \mathbb{Z}$
ii) $f(-n)=-f(n)$ for all $n\in \mathbb{Z}$
iii) $f(a^3+b^3+c^3+d^3)=f^3(a)+f^3(b)+f^3(c)+f^3(d)$ for all $n\in \mathbb{Z}$
1 reply
Dynic
an hour ago
jasperE3
13 minutes ago
k The My classes tab shows cyan even though im on community
Craftybutterfly   10
N Yesterday at 8:29 PM by jlacosta
Summary of the problem: The My classes tab shows cyan even though I'm on community. Notice the tabs next to the AoPS Online words.
Page URL: artofproblemsolving.com/community
Steps to reproduce:
1. Press on my classes next to the AoPS Online
2. Then press on community tab
Expected behavior: My Classes tab should be dark blue
Frequency: 100%
Operating system(s): HP EliteBook 835 G8 Notebook PC
Browser(s), including version: Chrome: 134.0.6998.89 (Official Build) (64-bit) (cohort: Stable)
Additional information: It happens on this specific computer only.
10 replies
Craftybutterfly
Mar 17, 2025
jlacosta
Yesterday at 8:29 PM
k Happy St. Patrick's Day!
A_Crabby_Crab   62
N Yesterday at 3:32 PM by Moonshot
A very happy St. Patrick's day to all!
62 replies
A_Crabby_Crab
Mar 17, 2025
Moonshot
Yesterday at 3:32 PM
Mathcounts Trainer Leaderboard
ChristianYoo   3
N Yesterday at 3:10 PM by Craftybutterfly
The leaderboard is broken.
3 replies
ChristianYoo
Yesterday at 3:03 PM
Craftybutterfly
Yesterday at 3:10 PM
AoPS Academy: Exporting rich format results in broken BBCode.
Minium   0
Yesterday at 6:57 AM
When exporting a rich format document in the writing tab into the message board, bold formatting specifically is broken and results in broken BBCode.
Page URL: virtual.aopsacademy.org/class/<any writing class works here>/writing

TO REPRODUCE
1. enter "Lorem ipsum".
2. apply bold to "Lorem"
3. apply italic to "ip".
4. click the Post Draft on Message Board
5. read the contents of the message board post.

FOR EXAMPLE
When I format "Lorem ipsum" (in the writing tab of course), but when I export to post it, I get

[code]Lorem[/b] ipsum[/code].

Notice that the first bolding does not start, only ends.
0 replies
Minium
Yesterday at 6:57 AM
0 replies
Minor Color Issue
KangarooPrecise   3
N Yesterday at 1:42 AM by BrighterFrog11
In my AOPS class, there are points on your report where your red bar turns orange, and your orange turns green, well my orange bar passed the small green mark but the bar did not turn green. I can't take a screenshot, but my orange bar should be green according to the color marking.
3 replies
KangarooPrecise
Yesterday at 12:59 AM
BrighterFrog11
Yesterday at 1:42 AM
k Negative accuracy?
DarintheBoy   3
N Monday at 10:24 PM by DarintheBoy
Slow and Steady (Accuracy) I
Gain 100 Accuracy XP per day in each of the next 2 days. (-19 XP on day 1)

How did this happen? Has anyone else had this?
3 replies
DarintheBoy
Monday at 10:20 PM
DarintheBoy
Monday at 10:24 PM
k Writing Problem Extension
WildFitBrain   5
N Mar 16, 2025 by bpan2021
I already submitted an extension but I cannot edit it because I submitted an unfinished solution. I have not viewed the solution.
5 replies
WildFitBrain
Mar 16, 2025
bpan2021
Mar 16, 2025
k Happy Pi Day!
greenplanet2050   5
N Mar 15, 2025 by Yihangzh
Happy Pi Day! $3.141592653589793238462643383279 50288419716939937510 5820974944 5923078164062862089986280348253421170679$

:D :D :D :D
5 replies
greenplanet2050
Mar 15, 2025
Yihangzh
Mar 15, 2025
Contest collection PDFs don&#039;t work when LaTeX is embedded within BBCode
Equinox8   5
N Mar 14, 2025 by jlacosta
This could very well be reported before, however a quick search did not find anything.

While embedding LaTeX commands within BBCode (like this: [i]text $\dfrac{1}{2}$ text[/i]) typically displays as intended within a forum, trying to render a contest collection using these commands breaks the PDF renderer.
5 replies
Equinox8
Feb 26, 2025
jlacosta
Mar 14, 2025
k 2023 IMO
ostriches88   4
N Mar 14, 2025 by jlacosta
As outlined in this (locked) post, the forum/blog creation message is out of date. It has been over a year since that post, and it still has not changed. I don't know if this got lost somewhere in the "passing this along" chain or if it was determined to be irrelevant, but it seems like a relatively simple fix ;)
4 replies
ostriches88
Mar 10, 2025
jlacosta
Mar 14, 2025
Polynomials and powers
rmtf1111   26
N Yesterday at 7:24 AM by ihategeo_1969
Source: RMM 2018 Day 1 Problem 2
Determine whether there exist non-constant polynomials $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ with real coefficients satisfying
$$P(x)^{10}+P(x)^9 = Q(x)^{21}+Q(x)^{20}.$$
26 replies
rmtf1111
Feb 24, 2018
ihategeo_1969
Yesterday at 7:24 AM
Polynomials and powers
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: RMM 2018 Day 1 Problem 2
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rmtf1111
698 posts
#1 • 12 Y
Y by Davi-8191, Snakes, microsoft_office_word, rkm0959, Mathuzb, Euiseu, opptoinfinity, meet18, IAmTheHazard, Rounak_iitr, Adventure10, Mango247
Determine whether there exist non-constant polynomials $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ with real coefficients satisfying
$$P(x)^{10}+P(x)^9 = Q(x)^{21}+Q(x)^{20}.$$
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Hamel
392 posts
#3 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
That's too easy I think.
Z K Y
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Lamp909
98 posts
#4 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Use first derivative
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rkm0959
1721 posts
#5 • 10 Y
Y by PARISsaintGERMAIN, Supercali, BobaFett101, hellomath010118, Nathanisme, trololo23, guptaamitu1, Adventure10, Mango247, Manteca
Denote $S_{f}$ as the solution set of $f(x)=0$. From the statement we know that $S_P \cup S_{P+1} = S_Q \cup S_{Q+1}$.
Since $10 \cdot \text{deg} P = 21 \cdot \text{deg} Q$, we have $\text{deg} P = 21x$ and $\text{deg} Q = 10x$.
Since $|S_{f}| \le \text{deg} f$ for polynomials $f$, we get that $|S_P| + |S_{P+1}| = |S_Q| + |S_{Q+1}| \le 20x$.

Now, here's a key lemma that solves the problem.

Lemma. For nonconstant polynomial $P$, $|S_P| + |S_{P+1}| \ge \text{deg} P +1$.

Proof of Lemma. Denote $P(x) = \prod_{i=1}^n (x-r_i)^{c_i}$ and $P(x)+1 = \prod_{i=1}^m (x-r_i')^{c_i'}$.
Clearly $r_i$ and $r'_i$ are pairwise distinct. Now look at $P'(x)$. This must have $r_i$ as a root with multiplicity $c_i-1$, and $r_i'$ as a root with multiplicity $c_i'-1$. This implies that $$ \text{deg} P-1 = \text{deg} P' \ge \sum_{i=1}^n (c_i-1) + \sum_{i=1}^m (c_i'-1) = 2 \cdot \text{deg} P - |S_P| - |S_{P+1}| $$Rearranging gives the desired lemma.

Now we have $20x \ge |S_P| + |S_{P+1}| \ge \text{deg} P +1 =21x+1$, an obvious contradiction.
This post has been edited 7 times. Last edited by rkm0959, Feb 27, 2018, 1:54 PM
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v_Enhance
6858 posts
#6 • 23 Y
Y by rkm0959, Ankoganit, AngleChasingXD, xdiegolazarox, Snakes, Mathuzb, Sskkrr, shon804, mijail, v4913, pcleong, ILOVEMYFAMILY, HamstPan38825, Kingsbane2139, denistusk, sabkx, kamatadu, Rounak_iitr, IAmTheHazard, Adventure10, Mango247, bhan2025, MS_asdfgzxcvb
The answer is no; here is the official solution. Assume $(P,Q)$ work, so $\deg P = 21n$ and $\deg Q = 10n$ for some $n$. Then we have: \begin{align*} 	1 &= \gcd(P,10P+9) = \gcd(P+1, 10P+9) \\ 	\implies 1 &= \gcd\left( P^{10} + P^9, 10P+9 \right) = \gcd\left( Q^{21} + Q^{20}, 10P+9 \right) \\ 	\implies 1 &= \gcd(Q, 10P+9). \end{align*}
Now, we take a derivative: \[ P' \cdot P^8 \cdot \left( 10P + 9 \right) 	= Q' \cdot Q^{19} \cdot \left( 21Q + 20 \right) \neq 0. \]Thus $10P+9$ should divide $Q' \cdot (21Q+20)$ but \[ \deg(10P+9) = 21n > 20n-1 = \deg(Q' \cdot (21Q+20)). \]
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by v_Enhance, Feb 25, 2018, 8:33 AM
Reason: clarify this is not mine
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WizardMath
2487 posts
#7 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
For brevity, I will denote $P(x) = P, Q(x) =Q$.
Note that the set of roots of $P$ is disjoint with that of $P+1$. Similarly for $Q$. Note that $P' = (P+1)'$, so the number of roots of $P'$, counting multiplicity must not be less than the sum of multiplicities of the roots of $P, P+1$ decreased by 1, so the number of roots of $P$ and $P+1$ is at least $\text{deg} P + 1$. But the number of roots of $P^{9} (P+1)$ doesn't exceed $\frac{20}{21} \deg P $, which is a contradiction.
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kjy1102
37 posts
#8 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Using derivative in polynomial has once presented https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c6h1352166p7389123
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by kjy1102, Feb 24, 2018, 2:07 PM
Reason: d
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va2010
1276 posts
#9 • 5 Y
Y by Ankoganit, rmtf1111, Kingsbane2139, Adventure10, Mango247
If $a = X^{10} + X^9$ and $c = X^{21} + X^{20}$, the equation rewrites as $a \cdot p = c \cdot q$. It is clear that the polynomial $a$ is indecomposable. Then according to Corollary 2.18 in http://dept.math.lsa.umich.edu/~zieve/papers/peter.pdf (which is proven using monodromy groups) there exists a linear polynomial $\ell$ such that $\ell \cdot a = T_{10}$ or $\ell \cdot a = X^{10}$, where $T_{10}$ is the $10$th Chebyshev polynomial. The first case is impossible since $T_{10}$ contains a nontrivial coefficient of $x^8$ but not of $x^9$, and the second case is impossible since $a(-1) = a(0)$ but $(-1)^{10} \neq 0^{10}$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by va2010, Feb 24, 2018, 2:23 PM
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huricane
670 posts
#10 • 2 Y
Y by GGPiku, Adventure10
I think I have an elementary solution for the following more general problem(although I'm not 100% sure)

Let $k>l>2$ be two coprime integers. Prove that there are no non-constant polynomials $P(x)$ and $Q(x)$ with real coefficients such that $$P^{k+1}+P^k=Q^{l+1}+Q^l.$$
Even if this general problem is not true it would be interesting to find for which pairs $(k,l)$ the problem is true.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by huricane, Feb 24, 2018, 6:33 PM
Reason: Edit
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WizardMath
2487 posts
#11 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
huricane wrote:
Even if this general problem is not true it would be interesting to find for which pairs $(k,l)$ the problem is true.

The official solution, for instance, proves this for $k \ge 1, l \ge 2k+1$.
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v_Enhance
6858 posts
#12 • 12 Y
Y by rkm0959, lminsl, Ankoganit, MNJ2357, RudraRockstar, v4913, tigerzhang, HamstPan38825, sabkx, Adventure10, Mango247, Kingsbane2139
Hamel wrote:
That's too easy I think.

Eh, no. ;)
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huricane
670 posts
#13 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
WizardMath wrote:
huricane wrote:
Even if this general problem is not true it would be interesting to find for which pairs $(k,l)$ the problem is true.

The official solution, for instance, proves this for $k \ge 1, l \ge 2k+1$.

Yeah but their method wouldn't work for the general problem, since they use degree bounds.
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Hamel
392 posts
#14 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
v_Enhance wrote:
Hamel wrote:
That's too easy I think.

Eh, no. ;)

Yeah right. Were it to give with distinct roots it would be easier.
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R8450932
58 posts
#15 • 3 Y
Y by Kingsbane2139, Adventure10, Mango247
İs it famous method to use derivative in polynomials?
So anyone who have seen USA TST 2017 problem could easily do this.
Does anyone know any handout/book about usage of derivative in polynomials or some problems about that topic other than USA TST and this one?
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nikolapavlovic
1246 posts
#16 • 9 Y
Y by R8450932, huricane, rmtf1111, nmd27082001, Kayak, gvole, sabkx, Adventure10, Mango247
The idea isn't really that uncommon,i mean any time you want some further information about roots or just kill the constant it seems like the right thing to do.For much older reference check this (problem 9)
Apparently Putnam 1957 B7 wrote:
Problem let $S(P)$ be the set of the roots of $P$ not counting multiplicity.Is it possible that $S(P)\equiv S(Q)$ and $S(P+1)\equiv S(Q+1)$ ?

Or even a more well know result Mason's theorem ,where the proof essentially goes along the lines of writing $\tfrac{a}{c}+\tfrac{b}{c}=1$ and differentiating to kill the one on the LHS.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by nikolapavlovic, Feb 25, 2018, 10:20 AM
Reason: added the link
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achen29
561 posts
#18 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Lamp909 wrote:
Use first derivative

Isn't calculus "loathed" in olympiads.? I mean can you clarify when can one use or not use calculus to solve a problem?
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lminsl
543 posts
#21 • 7 Y
Y by huricane, GGPiku, rmtf1111, rkm0959, MNJ2357, Adventure10, Mango247
Edit: Wrong Sol :(

Solution
This post has been edited 11 times. Last edited by lminsl, Mar 10, 2019, 4:43 AM
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Géza Kós
111 posts
#22 • 3 Y
Y by WolfusA, opptoinfinity, Adventure10
The key statement $|S_P|+|S_{P+1}|\ge \deg P+1$ is same as IMC 2000 day 2, prob 3.
See http://imc-math.org.uk/imc2000/prob_sol2.pdf
The author was Marianna Csörnyei.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by Géza Kós, Mar 1, 2018, 2:01 PM
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math_pi_rate
1218 posts
#23 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Here's my solution: I invoke notation from post #5. Then we have $|S_P| + |S_{P+1}| = |S_Q| + |S_{Q+1}| \le 20x$, where $\text{deg} (P) = 21x$ and $\text{deg} (Q) = 10x$ as shown in rkm0959's solution. Now, we look at the Lemma given below (it is basically a generalization of the Lemma in post #5), after which we can finish in a similar fashion as in rkm0959's solution.

LEMMA: Let $F \in \mathbb{R}[x]$ be a non-constant real valued polynomial of degree $n$ $(n \geq 1)$. Consider the $m+1$ distinct real numbers $r_1,r_2, \dots ,r_{m+1}$ where $m \in \mathbb{N}$. Then the total number of complex solutions to the equation $F(x)=r_i$ for all $i \in \{1,2, \dots ,m+1\}$ is at least $mn+1$. (The previous Lemma follows on taking $m=1$ and $r_1=0,r_2=-1$)

Proof of Lemma We always use $i$ to denote the integers from $1$ to $m+1$. First consider a general polynomial $A \in \mathbb{R}[x]$. Suppose that $\gcd(A,A')$ has degree $s$, where $A'$ is the first derivative of $A$. Then there exist $s$ roots of $A$ (not necessarily distinct) which are roots of $A'$ also, which means that the remaining roots of $A$ are distinct and correspond to the elements of $S_A$ (Just use the fact that roots of $A$ with multiplicity $a$ have multiplicity $a-1$ in $A'$). So we have $|S_A|=\text{deg}(A)-s$. Return to our Lemma. Letting $X$ denote the total number of solutions to the given equations, and using the fact that $(F-r_i)'=F'$, we have $$X=\sum_{i=1}^{m+1} n-\text{deg} (\gcd(F-r_i,F'))=(m+1)n-\sum_{i=1}^{m+1} \text{deg}(\gcd(F-r_i,F'))$$Then we wish to show that $X \geq mn+1$, which is equivalent to showing that $$(m+1)n-\sum_{i=1}^{m+1} \text{deg}(\gcd(F-r_i,F')) \geq mn+1 \Leftrightarrow \sum_{i=1}^{m+1} \text{deg}(\gcd(F-r_i,F')) \leq n-1 \text{ } \forall m \in \mathbb{N}$$Consider the polynomial $G(x)=(F(x)-r_1)(F(x)-r_2) \dots (F(x)-r_{m+1})$. As all these terms in product are pairwise co-prime, so we get that $$\sum_{i=1}^{m+1} \text{deg}(\gcd(F-r_i,F'))=\text{deg}(\gcd(G,F')) \leq \text{deg}(F') \leq \deg(F)-1=n-1 \quad \blacksquare$$
REMARK: The Lemma is tbh just a mixture of some well-known facts. For example, the fact that the number of distinct roots of a polynomial $A$ is $\text{deg}(A)-\text{deg}(\gcd(A,A'))$ is well-known (maybe not exactly in that form). Similarly, the second half of the proof of the Lemma (introducing $G$) is well motivated if one catches hold of the fact that degrees get added on multiplying pairwise co-prime polynomials.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by math_pi_rate, Feb 25, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Spacesam
597 posts
#24
Y by
Haha derivative go brrr. We get \begin{align*}
    P(x)^9 \left(P(x) + 1 \right) &= Q(x)^{20} \left(Q(x) + 1 \right) \\
    P'(x) \cdot P(x)^8 \left(10P(x) + 9 \right) &= Q'(x) \cdot Q(x)^{19} \left(21Q(x) + 20 \right)
\end{align*}to work with.

By analyzing the leading term of both sides in the first equation, and because $\gcd(10, 21) = 1$, we find that the degree of $P$ is $21c$ for some $c$ and the degree of $Q$ is $10c$.

Observe that $Q(x)$ divides $P(x)(P(x) + 1)$. Additionally, notice that \begin{align*}
    \gcd(10P(x) + 9, P(x) + 1) = \gcd(10P(x) + 9, P(x)) = 1,
\end{align*}hence we know that $10P(x) + 9$ divides $Q'(x) \cdot (21Q(x) + 20)$. But this is cap; the degree of the left is $21c$ and the degree of the right is $10c - 1 + 10c = 20c - 1$, smaller. Thus we are done.
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ILOVEMYFAMILY
641 posts
#25
Y by
v_Enhance wrote:
The answer is no; here is the official solution. Assume $(P,Q)$ work, so $\deg P = 21n$ and $\deg Q = 10n$ for some $n$. Then we have: \begin{align*} 	1 &= \gcd(P,10P+9) = \gcd(P+1, 10P+9) \\ 	\implies 1 &= \gcd\left( P^{10} + P^9, 10P+9 \right) = \gcd\left( Q^{21} + Q^{20}, 10P+9 \right) \\ 	\implies 1 &= \gcd(Q, 10P+9). \end{align*}
Now, we take a derivative: \[ P' \cdot P^8 \cdot \left( 10P + 9 \right) 	= Q' \cdot Q^{19} \cdot \left( 21Q + 20 \right) \neq 0. \]Thus $10P+9$ should divide $Q' \cdot (21Q+20)$ but \[ \deg(10P+9) = 21n > 20n-1 = \deg(Q' \cdot (21Q+20)). \]

What does gcd (P,Q) mean? I never see the definition of greatest common divisor for polynomial.Can you explain,plz?
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IAmTheHazard
5000 posts
#26
Y by
A bit overcomplicated but the idea is the same.

The answer is no.
Suppose $r$ is an arbitrary root of either side of the equation (we will refer to this as a "root of the equation"), and let $(A,B)$ denote $\gcd(A,B)$. We consider four cases—note that $r$ must fall in exactly one of these.
If $r$ is a root of $(P,Q)$, then it is a root of $P(x)^{10}+P(x)^9$ with multiplicity divisible by $9$, and a root of $Q(x)^{21}+Q(x)^{20}$ with multiplicity divisible by $20$. Thus $r$ is a root of the equation, it must have multiplicity divisible by $180$. Thus we can say that there are $A$ distinct roots of the equation which contribute a total multiplicity of $180a$.
If $r$ is a root of $(P+1,Q)$, then it is a root of the equation with multiplicity divisible by $20$, so we can say there are $B$ distinct roots with total multiplicity $20b$.
If $r$ is a root of $(P,Q+1)$, then we can say there are $C$ distinct roots with total multiplicity $9c$.
If $r$ is a root of $(P+1,Q+1)$, then we can say there are $D$ distinct roots with total multiplicity $d$.
Note that $A \leq a$ and similarly for the other pairs of variables.
Now, note that $P$ will have exactly $20a+c$ roots with multiplicity (since each root contributes nine times) and $P+1$ will have exactly $20b+d$ roots with multiplicity (since each root contributes once). Likewise, $Q$ will have exactly $9a+b$ roots and $Q+1$ will have exactly $9c+d$ roots.
It is well-known (say, by the product rule) that for any root of a polynomial $f$ with multiplicity $m$ is a root of $f'$ with multiplicity $m-1$. Thus, $P'$ has at least $20a+20b+c+d-A-B-C-D$ roots (with multiplicity). Thus,
$$20a+20b+c+d-A-B-C-D \leq \deg P'=\deg P-1=20a+c-1 \implies 20b+d\leq A+B+C+D-1,$$and similarly $20a+c\leq A+B+C+D-1$ (from looking at $P+1$ instead of $P$), so
$$20a+20b+c+d\leq 2A+2B+2C+2D-2 \leq 2a+2b+2c+2d-2 \implies 18a+18b+2 \leq c+d.$$On the other hand, this means that
$$\deg Q=9a+b<18a+18b+2\leq c+d\leq 9c+d=\deg (Q+1),$$which is absurd, hence no such polynomials exist. $\blacksquare$
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HamstPan38825
8853 posts
#27
Y by
The answer is no. The key is the following lemma.

Lemma. Let $\mathcal S(P)$ denote the set of roots, without multiplicity, of a polynomial $P$. Then $$|\mathcal S(P)| + |\mathcal S(P+1)| \geq \deg P + 1.$$
Proof. See here. (Indeed, the similarity to that problem has been pointed out previously in the thread.) $\blacksquare$

First, by comparing degrees, $\deg P = 21k$ and $\deg Q = 10k$ for some positive integer $k$.

Now notice that $$|\mathcal S(P(x)^{10} + P(x)^9)| = |\mathcal S(P(x))| + |\mathcal S(P(x) + 1)| \geq 21k+1$$by the lemma. On the other hand, $$|\mathcal S(Q(x)^{21} + Q(x)^{20})| \leq \deg Q + \deg(Q+1) = 20k.$$This yields a contradiction. $\blacksquare$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by HamstPan38825, Jul 7, 2023, 8:13 AM
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asdf334
7585 posts
#28 • 2 Y
Y by megarnie, bjump
i hate algebra i hate algebra i hate algebra i hate algebra

why does it have to be calculus?? also missed the other P, P+1 question in DAW realpoly whoops
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CT17
1481 posts
#29 • 4 Y
Y by InterLoop, ex-center, CyclicISLscelesTrapezoid, bjump
We will consider both the given equation $P^9(P+1) = Q^{20}(Q+1)$ and its derivative $P^8P'(10P+9) = Q^{19}Q'(21Q+20)$. The former implies that any root $r$ of $Q$ is a root of $P$ or $P+1$. In particular, $Q$ does not share any roots with $10P+9$, so $10P+9\mid Q'(21Q+20)$. However this is absurd since $\text{deg}P = \frac{21}{10}\text{deg}Q$, so no such polynomials exist.

Edit: milestone post or something.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by CT17, Feb 27, 2024, 3:45 PM
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N3bula
257 posts
#30
Y by
We have that $\deg(Q(x))=10n$ and $\deg (P(x))=21n$ for some $n$. Clearly we have that all the roots of $P(x)$ and all the roots of $P(x)+1$
are also roots of either $Q(x)$ or $Q(x)+1$. Let $P$ be the set of distinct roots of $P(x)$, $P_1$ be the set of distinct roots of $P(x)+1$ and
define $Q$ and $Q_1$ similarly. We have that $\vert P \cup P_1 \vert \geq 21n+1$ by Putnam 1956 B7, thus we also get that as $\deg(Q(x))=10n$,
$\vert Q \cup Q_1 \vert \leq 20n$, so we have a contradiction and thus no such polynomials exist.
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ihategeo_1969
162 posts
#31
Y by
I replaced $P$ and $Q$ in question by mistake and Im too lazy to change, sorry.

The answer is $\boxed{\text{no}}$.

Assume there does then see that $\deg P=10d$ and $\deg Q=21d$ for some $d>0$. Differentiate it once and see that we have the equations \begin{align*}
& P^{20}(P+1)=Q^9(Q+1) \\
& P^{19} \cdot P' (21P+20)=Q^8 \cdot Q'(10Q+9)
\end{align*}Divide the two equations and we get \[(Q+1)QP'(21P+20)=(P+1)PQ'(10Q+9]\]But see that $\gcd(Q(Q+1),10Q+9)=1$ anfd so we have \[(Q+1)Q \mid (P+1)PQ' \implies 42d \le 20d+21d=41d\]Which is a contradiction.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by ihategeo_1969, Yesterday at 7:26 AM
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