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k a March Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Mar 2, 2025
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0 replies
jlacosta
Mar 2, 2025
0 replies
IMO 2009, Problem 5
orl   86
N 22 minutes ago by Ilikeminecraft
Source: IMO 2009, Problem 5
Determine all functions $ f$ from the set of positive integers to the set of positive integers such that, for all positive integers $ a$ and $ b$, there exists a non-degenerate triangle with sides of lengths
\[ a, f(b) \text{ and } f(b + f(a) - 1).\]
(A triangle is non-degenerate if its vertices are not collinear.)

Proposed by Bruno Le Floch, France
86 replies
orl
Jul 16, 2009
Ilikeminecraft
22 minutes ago
IMO 2023 P2
799786   88
N 24 minutes ago by Frd_19_Hsnzde
Source: IMO 2023 P2
Let $ABC$ be an acute-angled triangle with $AB < AC$. Let $\Omega$ be the circumcircle of $ABC$. Let $S$ be the midpoint of the arc $CB$ of $\Omega$ containing $A$. The perpendicular from $A$ to $BC$ meets $BS$ at $D$ and meets $\Omega$ again at $E \neq A$. The line through $D$ parallel to $BC$ meets line $BE$ at $L$. Denote the circumcircle of triangle $BDL$ by $\omega$. Let $\omega$ meet $\Omega$ again at $P \neq B$. Prove that the line tangent to $\omega$ at $P$ meets line $BS$ on the internal angle bisector of $\angle BAC$.
88 replies
799786
Jul 8, 2023
Frd_19_Hsnzde
24 minutes ago
Diagonals BD,CE concurrent with diameter AO in cyclic ABCDE
WakeUp   10
N 28 minutes ago by zhenghua
Source: Romanian TST 2002
Let $ABCDE$ be a cyclic pentagon inscribed in a circle of centre $O$ which has angles $\angle B=120^{\circ},\angle C=120^{\circ},$ $\angle D=130^{\circ},\angle E=100^{\circ}$. Show that the diagonals $BD$ and $CE$ meet at a point belonging to the diameter $AO$.

Dinu Șerbănescu
10 replies
WakeUp
Feb 5, 2011
zhenghua
28 minutes ago
Parallel lines in two-circle configuration
Tintarn   3
N 39 minutes ago by zhenghua
Source: Francophone 2024, Senior P3
Let $ABC$ be an acute triangle, $\omega$ its circumcircle and $O$ its circumcenter. The altitude from $A$ intersects $\omega$ in a point $D \ne A$ and the segment $AC$ intersects the circumcircle of $OCD$ in a point $E \ne C$. Finally, let $M$ be the midpoint of $BE$. Show that $DE$ is parallel to $OM$.
3 replies
Tintarn
Apr 4, 2024
zhenghua
39 minutes ago
No more topics!
fourth degree polynomail, 4 variable polynomial!
goodar2006   10
N Aug 24, 2018 by JiaHo
Source: Iran 2nd round 2012-Day2-P5
Consider the second degree polynomial $x^2+ax+b$ with real coefficients. We know that the necessary and sufficient condition for this polynomial to have roots in real numbers is that its discriminant, $a^2-4b$ be greater than or equal to zero. Note that the discriminant is also a polynomial with variables $a$ and $b$. Prove that the same story is not true for polynomials of degree $4$: Prove that there does not exist a $4$ variable polynomial $P(a,b,c,d)$ such that:

The fourth degree polynomial $x^4+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d$ can be written as the product of four $1$st degree polynomials if and only if $P(a,b,c,d)\ge 0$. (All the coefficients are real numbers.)

Proposed by Sahand Seifnashri
10 replies
goodar2006
May 1, 2012
JiaHo
Aug 24, 2018
fourth degree polynomail, 4 variable polynomial!
G H J
Source: Iran 2nd round 2012-Day2-P5
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goodar2006
1347 posts
#1 • 5 Y
Y by hadikh, Amir Hossein, mostafataheri, Adventure10, Mango247
Consider the second degree polynomial $x^2+ax+b$ with real coefficients. We know that the necessary and sufficient condition for this polynomial to have roots in real numbers is that its discriminant, $a^2-4b$ be greater than or equal to zero. Note that the discriminant is also a polynomial with variables $a$ and $b$. Prove that the same story is not true for polynomials of degree $4$: Prove that there does not exist a $4$ variable polynomial $P(a,b,c,d)$ such that:

The fourth degree polynomial $x^4+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d$ can be written as the product of four $1$st degree polynomials if and only if $P(a,b,c,d)\ge 0$. (All the coefficients are real numbers.)

Proposed by Sahand Seifnashri
This post has been edited 5 times. Last edited by goodar2006, Jun 28, 2012, 5:49 PM
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goodar2006
1347 posts
#2 • 6 Y
Y by pco, Amir Hossein, mostafataheri, TheOverlord, Adventure10, Mango247
My solution
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mahanmath
1354 posts
#3 • 5 Y
Y by hadikh, Amir Hossein, Adventure10, Mango247, and 1 other user
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/68049.html
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mahanmath
1354 posts
#4 • 5 Y
Y by Amir Hossein, goodar2006, Adventure10, Mango247, and 1 other user
What I wrote in the exam :D :

Define $r_1, r_2 , r_3 , r_4$ to be roots of $ x^{4}+ax^{3}+bx^{2}+cx+d $ , then by Vieta's relations

$P(a,b,c,d) 
\\ = P(-\sum_{i=1}^{4}r_i \;\:  ,\;  \sum_{1 \leq i<j \leq 4}^{ }r_i r_j \;\:  ,\;  -\sum_{1 \leq i < j < k \leq 4}^{ } r_i r_j r_k \;\:  ,\; r_1 r_2 r_3 r_4) \\ = Q(r_1 , r_2 , r_3 ,r_4)$

Then condition is $Q(x,y,z,t) \geq 0$ if $x,y,z,t \in \mathbb R$ and it becomes negative when $z,t$ are two conjugate non-real complex numbers (here we should note that $a,b,c,d \in \mathbb R$) .
Let $x,y,r \in \mathbb R^$ and $z=\zeta  \: ,\:  t= \bar{\zeta }$ where $|\zeta |=r^2$ ,Then $Q(x,y,\zeta , \bar{\zeta} ) $ becomes a polynomial because $\zeta = r . \theta$ and $\bar{\zeta}=r . \frac{1}{\theta}$ for some $\theta$ on unit circle . Let $\zeta$ varies on complex numbers with norm $r^2$ .For every such $\zeta $ , $Q(x,y,\zeta , \bar{\zeta} ) <0$ ,except when $ \zeta  \in \mathbb R$ , i.e $\zeta  = \pm r$ . In this two exceptions we should have $Q(x,y,\pm r,\pm r) \geq 0$ , But according to continuity of $Q(x,y,\zeta , \bar{\zeta} ) $ , $Q(x,y,\pm r,\pm r)$ can not be positive because if it become positive then there is a $\epsilon$-neighbor of $r$ that it remains positive on it , which is absurd . Hence $H(r)=Q(x,y,r,r)=0$ for all real $r$ .
$H(r)$ vanish at every $r$ and all $x,y$ $\implies$ $Q(i,-i,1,1)=0$ where $i^2 =-1$ , contradiction !
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hadikh
36 posts
#5 • 3 Y
Y by drmathen, Adventure10, and 1 other user
My solution
(What I wrote in the exam... with more details (3 pages!))

If $Q(x)=(x^2+mx+n)(x^2+px+q)$ then $P(a,b,c,d)=P(m+p,mp+n+q,np+mq,nq)=R(m,n,p,q)$

Then condition is equivalent to $R(m,n,p,q)\geq0\Longleftrightarrow m^2-4n\geq0, \ p^2-4q\geq0$

Let $p^2-4q>0$ so $R(m,n,p,q)\geq0\Leftrightarrow m^2-4n\geq0$ thus $m^2-4n|R(m,n,p,q)$.
Let $k$ be the greatest positive integer s.t. $(m^2-4n)^k|R(m,n,p,q)$.

Let $p^2-4q<0$ so $R(m,n,p,q)<0 \ (\forall m,n\in \mathbb{R})$. Thus $k$ is even.
Let $p^2-4q>0$ so $R(m,n,p,q)\geq0\Leftrightarrow m^2-4n\geq0$. Thus $k$ must be odd, contradiction!

Is it true?
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goodar2006
1347 posts
#6 • 3 Y
Y by hadikh, Adventure10, Mango247
hadikh wrote:
Let $p^2-4q>0$ so $R(m,n,p,q)\geq0\Leftrightarrow m^2-4n\geq0$ thus $m^2-4n|R(m,n,p,q)$.

Would you please prove this part? Thanks.
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hadikh
36 posts
#7 • 2 Y
Y by drmathen, Adventure10
goodar2006 wrote:
hadikh wrote:
Let $p^2-4q>0$ so $R(m,n,p,q)\geq0\Leftrightarrow m^2-4n\geq0$ thus $m^2-4n|R(m,n,p,q)$.

Would you please prove this part? Thanks.

Fix $p,q$ s.t. $p^2-4q>0$ and let $m\in \mathbb{R}$ be arbitrary constant. Let $R(m,n,p,q)=T(n)$

If $n<\frac{m^2}{4}$ then $m^2-4c>0$ so $T(n)\geq0$. If $n>\frac{m^2}{4}$ then $m^2-4c<0$ so $T(n)<0$. Thus $n=\frac{m^2}{4}$ is a root of $T$ and $m^2-4n$ is a factor of $T$.
$m$ was arbitrary constant, so $m^2-4n$ is a factor of $R$.
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Wajax47
28 posts
#8 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Could you explain your solution, goodar2006 ?
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JiaHo
117 posts
#9 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
goodar2006’s solution was wrong, it is possible to have $Q(b,\frac{b^2}{4})=0$ for all non-negative $b$. He reduced the equation to a quadratic equation, then $Q$ is just $b^2-4d$, we cannot prove by contradiction. We still don’t know if $P$ exists.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by JiaHo, Aug 21, 2018, 7:30 PM
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goodar2006
1347 posts
#10 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Please, do provide a polynomial $Q(b, d)$ where $Q(b, \frac{b ^ 2}{4}) = 0$ only for nonpositive real numbers $b$.

I think you haven't completely understood the problem or my solution yet. Please read it more carefully.
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JiaHo
117 posts
#11 • 3 Y
Y by goodar2006, Adventure10, Mango247
Thanks for replying,
I understand your answer now. Let $f(b)=Q(b,\frac{b^2}{4})=0$, there is no polynomial $f$ that $f(b)=0$ only for $b\le0$. Because it's also valid for $b>0$, we cannot use $Q$ to distinguish whether the equation has four real roots. It's indeed a really neat answer.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by JiaHo, Aug 24, 2018, 11:30 AM
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