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k a May Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
4 hours ago
May is an exciting month! National MATHCOUNTS is the second week of May in Washington D.C. and our Founder, Richard Rusczyk will be presenting a seminar, Preparing Strong Math Students for College and Careers, on May 11th.

Are you interested in working towards MATHCOUNTS and don’t know where to start? We have you covered! If you have taken Prealgebra, then you are ready for MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics. Already aiming for State or National MATHCOUNTS and harder AMC 8 problems? Then our MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced course is for you.

Summer camps are starting next month at the Virtual Campus in math and language arts that are 2 - to 4 - weeks in duration. Spaces are still available - don’t miss your chance to have an enriching summer experience. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following upcoming events:
[list][*]May 9th, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, Casework 2: Overwhelming Evidence — A Text Adventure, a game where participants will work together to navigate the map, solve puzzles, and win! All are welcome.
[*]May 19th, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, What's Next After Beast Academy?, designed for students finishing Beast Academy and ready for Prealgebra 1.
[*]May 20th, 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Mathcamp 2025 Qualifying Quiz Part 1 Math Jam, Problems 1 to 4, join the Canada/USA Mathcamp staff for this exciting Math Jam, where they discuss solutions to Problems 1 to 4 of the 2025 Mathcamp Qualifying Quiz!
[*]May 21st, 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Mathcamp 2025 Qualifying Quiz Part 2 Math Jam, Problems 5 and 6, Canada/USA Mathcamp staff will discuss solutions to Problems 5 and 6 of the 2025 Mathcamp Qualifying Quiz![/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
4 hours ago
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
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Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
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Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Trigonometry article for geometry
xytunghoanh   0
8 minutes ago
Does anyone have any articles on using trigonometry to prove geometry problems (Law of Sines, Ceva's Theorem in trigonometric form,..) that they can share with me?
Thanks!
0 replies
1 viewing
xytunghoanh
8 minutes ago
0 replies
centroid lies outside of triangle (not clickbait)
Scilyse   1
N 12 minutes ago by LoloChen
Source: 数之谜 January (CHN TST Mock) Problem 5
Let $P$ be a convex polygon with centroid $G$, and let $\mathcal P$ be the set of vertices of $P$. Let $\mathcal X$ be the set of triangles with vertices all in $\mathcal P$. We sort the elements $\triangle ABC$ of $\mathcal X$ into the following three types:
[list]
[*] (Type 1) $G$ lies in the strict interior of $\triangle ABC$; let $\mathcal A$ be the set of triangles of this type.
[*] (Type 2) $G$ lies in the strict exterior of $\triangle ABC$; let $\mathcal B$ be the set of triangles of this type.
[*] (Type 3) $G$ lies on the boundary of $\triangle ABC$.
[/list]
For any triangle $T$, denote by $S_T$ the area of $T$. Prove that \[\sum_{T \in \mathcal A} S_T \geq \sum_{T \in \mathcal B} S_T.\]
1 reply
Scilyse
Jan 26, 2025
LoloChen
12 minutes ago
Function equation
LeDuonggg   1
N 20 minutes ago by luutrongphuc
Find all functions $f: \mathbb{R^+} \rightarrow \mathbb{R^+}$ , such that for all $x,y>0$:
\[ f(x+f(y))=\dfrac{f(x)}{1+f(xy)}\]
1 reply
+1 w
LeDuonggg
Yesterday at 2:59 PM
luutrongphuc
20 minutes ago
4 lines concurrent
Zavyk09   6
N 24 minutes ago by hectorleo123
Source: Homework
Let $ABC$ be triangle with circumcenter $(O)$ and orthocenter $H$. $BH, CH$ intersect $(O)$ again at $K, L$ respectively. Lines through $H$ parallel to $AB, AC$ intersects $AC, AB$ at $E, F$ respectively. Point $D$ such that $HKDL$ is a parallelogram. Prove that lines $KE, LF$ and $AD$ are concurrent at a point on $OH$.
6 replies
Zavyk09
Apr 9, 2025
hectorleo123
24 minutes ago
Math and AI 4 Girls
mkwhe   32
N 2 hours ago by WhitePhoenix
Hey everyone!

The 2025 MA4G competition is now open!

Apply Here: https://xmathandai4girls.submittable.com/submit


Visit https://www.mathandai4girls.org/ to get started!

Feel free to PM or email mathandai4girls@yahoo.com if you have any questions!
32 replies
mkwhe
Apr 5, 2025
WhitePhoenix
2 hours ago
1500th Post!
PikaPika999   37
N 2 hours ago by PojoDotCom
I hit my 1500th post!!

Oh whoops I didn't know marathons were banned. Instead, ig make 24 using the following numbers:

3,3,8,8
37 replies
PikaPika999
Yesterday at 1:09 AM
PojoDotCom
2 hours ago
The daily problem!
Leeoz   159
N 3 hours ago by Shan3t
Every day, I will try to post a new problem for you all to solve! If you want to post a daily problem, you can! :)

Please hide solutions and answers, hints are fine though! :)

Problems usually get harder throughout the week, so Sunday is the easiest and Saturday is the hardest!

Past Problems!
159 replies
Leeoz
Mar 21, 2025
Shan3t
3 hours ago
Math with Connect4 Boards
Math-lover1   4
N 4 hours ago by Math-lover1
Hi! So I was playing Connect4 with my friends the other day and I wondered: how many "legal" arrangements of Connect4 can be reached at the ending position?

We assume that we do not stop the game when there is a four in a row, and we have 21 red pieces and 21 yellow pieces. We also drop the pieces one by one into a standard 7 by 6 board. We can start the game with any color piece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connect_Four

Initial Thoughts
Attempt to use one-to-one correspondences
4 replies
Math-lover1
Yesterday at 1:58 AM
Math-lover1
4 hours ago
Facts About 2025!
Existing_Human1   255
N Yesterday at 7:53 PM by happymoose666
Hello AOPS,

As we enter the New Year, the most exciting part is figuring out the mathematical connections to the number we have now temporally entered

Here are some facts about 2025:
$$2025 = 45^2 = (20+25)(20+25)$$$$2025 = 1^3 + 2^3 +3^3 + 4^3 +5^3 +6^3 + 7^3 +8^3 +9^3 = (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9)^2 = {10 \choose 2}^2$$
If anyone has any more facts about 2025, enlighted the world with a new appreciation for the year


(I got some of the facts from this video)
255 replies
Existing_Human1
Jan 1, 2025
happymoose666
Yesterday at 7:53 PM
9 Have you participated in the MATHCOUNTS competition?
aadimathgenius9   22
N Yesterday at 7:37 PM by hashbrown2009
Have you participated in the MATHCOUNTS competition before?
22 replies
aadimathgenius9
Jan 1, 2025
hashbrown2009
Yesterday at 7:37 PM
random achievements
Bummer12345   27
N Yesterday at 1:47 PM by Soupboy0
What are some random math achievements that you have accomplished but possess no real meaning?

For example, I solved #10 on the 2024 national mathcounts team round, though my team got a 5 Click to reveal hidden text and ended up getting 30-somethingth place
27 replies
Bummer12345
Mar 25, 2025
Soupboy0
Yesterday at 1:47 PM
Website to learn math
hawa   72
N Yesterday at 8:18 AM by KF329
Hi, I'm kinda curious what website do yall use to learn math, like i dont find any website thats fun to learn math
72 replies
hawa
Apr 9, 2025
KF329
Yesterday at 8:18 AM
Summer Classes
triggod   0
Yesterday at 5:22 AM
Summer STEM Success Series with Fikky Dosunmu!
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Run a YouTube channel with 70K+ views and 700+ subscribers, where I teach math and coding to students around the world with clarity and passion
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Solved over 500 competitive programming problems on platforms like Codeforces and USACO
Years of Science Bowl and Science Olympiad Experience
AP Scholar with 5s in AP Calculus BC, Computer Science A, Statistics, Physics, Chemistry, Psychology
Scored 800 on the SAT Math section (Perfect Score)
Hands-on coding and teaching experience through projects, contests, and club leadership



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0 replies
triggod
Yesterday at 5:22 AM
0 replies
0.999..=1???
EaZ_Shadow   76
N Yesterday at 2:02 AM by LXC007
Alright, I was thinking about why 0.999...=1 one day, and remembered something from learning calculus. Technically, subtracting 0.999... from 1 gives 0.000...0001 (infinitely many zeros). This is really close to zero, however I will denote as 0+, as it indeed is greater than 0, even by the smallest margin. Now take the differences (1-0.999...999) and add them up infinitely many times. Should it be zero? No because of the 0+, its a bit greater than 0, so adding it up infinitely many times would be greater than 0... Whats's wrong with my reasoning?
76 replies
EaZ_Shadow
Wednesday at 11:56 PM
LXC007
Yesterday at 2:02 AM
computational in a trapezoid with bases AD=2BC
parmenides51   1
N Nov 9, 2018 by AlastorMoody
Source: V.A. Yasinsky Geometry Olympiad 2017 VIII-IX p6, advanced p6 [Ukranie]
Given a trapezoid $ABCD$ with bases $BC$ and $AD$, with $AD=2 BC$. Let $M$ be the midpoint of $AD, E$ be the intersection point of the sides $AB$ and $CD$, $O$ be the intersection point of $BM$ and $AC, N$ be the intersection point of $EO$ and $BC$. In what ratio, point $N$ divides the segment $BC$?
1 reply
parmenides51
Sep 23, 2018
AlastorMoody
Nov 9, 2018
computational in a trapezoid with bases AD=2BC
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: V.A. Yasinsky Geometry Olympiad 2017 VIII-IX p6, advanced p6 [Ukranie]
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parmenides51
30650 posts
#1 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Given a trapezoid $ABCD$ with bases $BC$ and $AD$, with $AD=2 BC$. Let $M$ be the midpoint of $AD, E$ be the intersection point of the sides $AB$ and $CD$, $O$ be the intersection point of $BM$ and $AC, N$ be the intersection point of $EO$ and $BC$. In what ratio, point $N$ divides the segment $BC$?
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by parmenides51, Jun 21, 2022, 1:37 AM
Z K Y
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AlastorMoody
2125 posts
#2 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
We know, $ AD||BC \text{ and } AD=2BC $
By similarity, $M,B,C $ are all mid-points,
Since, $ABCM $ is parallelogram, $\implies AO=CO $ and hence, $EO,BC $ are both medians,
$EO \cap BC=N \rightarrow \text { centroid } $
Therefore, $\boxed {BN:NC=1:2} $
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