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jlacosta   0
Yesterday at 11:16 PM
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0 replies
jlacosta
Yesterday at 11:16 PM
0 replies
Inspired by Nice inequality
sqing   0
a minute ago
Source: Own
Let $  a,b,c >0  $. Show that
$$\left(\frac{a}{b}+\frac{b}{c}+\frac{c}{a}+1\right)^2 \geq \frac{16}{k+3}\left(\frac{b}{a}+\frac{c}{b}+\frac{a}{c}+k\right)$$$$\left(\frac{a}{b}+\frac{b}{c}+\frac{c}{a}+1\right)^2 \geq  \frac{b}{a}+\frac{c}{b}+\frac{a}{c}+13$$$$\left(\frac{a}{b}+\frac{b}{c}+\frac{c}{a}+1\right)^2 \geq \frac{16}{5}\left(\frac{b}{a}+\frac{c}{b}+\frac{a}{c}+2\right)$$
0 replies
1 viewing
sqing
a minute ago
0 replies
Mmo 9-10 graders P5
Bet667   5
N 19 minutes ago by User141208
Let $a,b,c,d$ be real numbers less than 2.Then prove that $\frac{a^3}{b^2+4}+\frac{b^3}{c^2+4}+\frac{c^3}{d^2+4}+\frac{d^3}{a^2+4}\le4$
5 replies
Bet667
Apr 3, 2025
User141208
19 minutes ago
3 var inequality
sqing   2
N 21 minutes ago by sqing
Source: Own
Let $ a,b,c>0 ,\frac{a}{b} +\frac{b}{c} +\frac{c}{a} \leq 2\left( \frac{1}{a}+\frac{1}{b}+\frac{1}{c}\right). $ Prove that
$$a+b+c+2\geq abc$$Let $ a,b,c>0 , a^3+b^3+c^3\leq 2(ab+bc+ca). $ Prove that
$$a+b+c+2\geq abc$$
2 replies
sqing
Wednesday at 9:30 AM
sqing
21 minutes ago
Inspired by JK1603JK
sqing   4
N 24 minutes ago by sqing
Source: Own
Let $ a,b,c $ be reals such that $  abc\neq 0$ and $ a+b+c=0.  $ Prove that
$$\left|\frac{a-b}{c}\right|+k\left|\frac{b-c}{a} \right|+k^2\left|\frac{c-a}{b} \right|\ge 3(k+1)$$Where $ k\geq 1.$
$$\left|\frac{a-b}{c}\right|+2\left|\frac{b-c}{a} \right|+4\left|\frac{c-a}{b} \right|\ge 9$$
4 replies
sqing
Yesterday at 9:44 AM
sqing
24 minutes ago
No more topics!
2011-gon
3333   27
N Apr 10, 2025 by Maximilian113
Source: All-Russian 2011
A convex 2011-gon is drawn on the board. Peter keeps drawing its diagonals in such a way, that each newly drawn diagonal intersected no more than one of the already drawn diagonals. What is the greatest number of diagonals that Peter can draw?
27 replies
3333
May 17, 2011
Maximilian113
Apr 10, 2025
2011-gon
G H J
Source: All-Russian 2011
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3333
667 posts
#1 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
A convex 2011-gon is drawn on the board. Peter keeps drawing its diagonals in such a way, that each newly drawn diagonal intersected no more than one of the already drawn diagonals. What is the greatest number of diagonals that Peter can draw?
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mavropnevma
15142 posts
#2 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Are two diagonals sharing a common vertex considered to intersect ?
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301EC
48 posts
#3 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
I don't think so!
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JBL
16123 posts
#4 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
For $n \geq 3$, let $f(n)$ be the maximal number for an $n$-gon, and for convenience set $f(2) = -1$. Suppose the $n$-gon has vertices $A_1$, $A_2$, ..., $A_n$. Certainly, any optimal configuration contains at least one pair of crossing diagonals, say $A_1 A_j$ and $A_i A_k$. To any such configuration we can add the diagonals $A_1 A_i$, $A_i A_j$, $A_j A_k$ and $A_k A_1$ if they do not already appear without creating any new crossings. Moreover, doing so makes clear that the problem decomposes into four smaller versions of the same problem, with $i$, $j - i + 1$, $k - j + 1$ and $n + 2 - k$ vertices. It follows immediately that
\[
f(n) = 6 + \max_{\substack{i, j, k \\ 1 < i < j < k \leq n}}( f(i) + f(j - i + 1) + f(k - j + 1) + f(n + 2 - k)).
\]
Now prove by induction that $f(n) = n + \lfloor n/2 \rfloor - 4$.
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mymath7
162 posts
#5 • 5 Y
Y by JBL, Adventure10, Mango247, DEKT, and 1 other user
JBL wrote:
Now prove by induction that $f(n) = n + \lfloor n/2 \rfloor - 4$.

Nice try, but this is clearly wrong. Take $n=5$ for example. If the pentagon is $ABCDE$, we can draw $AD, BE, CE, CA$ in that order. This yields $4$ diagonals. In your formula, $f(5) = 5 + \lfloor 5/2 \rfloor -4 = 3$. :)

Hint: $f(3) = 0, f(4) = 2, f(5) = 4, \ldots$ :)
mavropnevma wrote:
Are two diagonals sharing a common vertex considered to intersect ?

Pedantic as always. No :)
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JBL
16123 posts
#6 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Ah, you're right, I didn't read carefully: my solution asks that no diagonal crosses more than one other, regardless of the times they were drawn.
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mavropnevma
15142 posts
#7 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
mymath7 wrote:
mavropnevma wrote:
Are two diagonals sharing a common vertex considered to intersect ?

Pedantic as always. No :)
Not that pedantic ... In the thrackle definition (see Conway's thrackle conjecture), two edges of a thrackle are considered to meet if they have a common endpoint, not just if their crossing is transverse.
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mymath7
162 posts
#8 • 6 Y
Y by Adventure10 and 5 other users
mavropnevma wrote:
Not that pedantic ... In the thrackle definition (see Conway's thrackle conjecture), two edges of a thrackle are considered to meet if they have a common endpoint, not just if their crossing is transverse.

I was by no means saying that your pedantry is a bad thing. Indeed, with one problem that is clearly stated to others, you are able to generate dozens of other interpretations for people to solve :)
JBL wrote:
Ah, you're right, I didn't read carefully: my solution asks that no diagonal crosses more than one other, regardless of the times they were drawn.

Yes, but we can still use apply your idea with the correct version. Supposing that $A_1A_j$ is the last diagonal drawn, and $A_iA_k$ is the only one crossing it, we can induct on the two polygons $A_1A_2...A_j$ and $A_j...A_1$, after which we are essentially done. :)
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Mewto55555
4210 posts
#9 • 3 Y
Y by NewAlbionAcademy, Adventure10, Mango247
Rough sketch since there's no solution yet:

First we prove inductively that we can get $2(n-3)$. Base cases are obvious. Now, assume we have $2(n-3)$ diagonals drawn on points $A_1,A_2,...,A_n$. WLOG add point $A_{n+1}$ after $A_n$ and before $A_1$. Then we can draw diagonals $A_nA_1$ and then $A_{n+1}A_2$ in that order.

(this part was not my idea): To prove $2(n-3)$ is the maximum, draw two n-gons side by side, each with diagonals that never cross. At best, we can get $(n-3)$ in each, super-imposing them gives $2(n-3)$ is the best -- if any side has more, then we would have to draw a diagonal with two intersections.
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MBGO
315 posts
#10 • 3 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247, jkim0656
proof of maximality is quite incorrect.
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sahadian
112 posts
#11 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
I think something wrong in your answer if the answer is $2(n-3)$ it means that for $n=3$ we cant draw any diagonal but it is Obvious that we can draw at least 1 diagonal for n=3
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brothers-brt
32 posts
#12 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
you've made a mistake. A BIG ONE ;D
when you draw a(n+1),a(2) diagonal it intersects all diagonals that exit from a(1) and they might be more than one
so the induction is wrong tooooooo
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numbertheorist17
268 posts
#13 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
So is there actually a correct solution?
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junioragd
314 posts
#14 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
The answer is 2*(n-3).Let the number of diagonals be c.Now,there are at most c-1 intersections.Also,if we pick a random subset of diagonals,such that subset has k diagonals,there are also a t most k-1 intersections(we consider the intersections only among the diagonals in the subset,the inersection of a diagonal which is not in the subset with a diagonal which is in the subset doesn't count),or in another words,subset must consider the conditions of the whole set.Now,WLOG suppose that the last drawn diagonal is A1Ai(we can clockwise move indexes),because the indexing will be easyer.Now,we use induction on polygons A1A2...Ai and AiAi+1...AnA1,and also we can add one more diagonal that isn't in any of the polygons,than it intersects A1Ai.Now,by pure induction we have that the maximum number of diagonals is 2*(i-3)+2*(n-i-1)+2=2*n-6=2*(n-3)(The induction base for n=3 and n=4 is obvious).Now,the example for 2*(n-3):Draw diagonals in this order:
A1A3,A2A4,A3A5...An-1A1,A1A4,A1A5,A1A6,...A1An-2 and we are finished
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SmartClown
82 posts
#15 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
First solution:answer is $2(n-3)$. $n=3$ and $n=4$ cases are trivial.Now consider and $n-gon$.By considering the last drawn diagonal and by induction hypotesis(strong induction) applied on $2$ polygon the last diagonal divides the $n-gon$ and of course adding $2$ for the last diagonal and the diagonal that is intersected by it we easily obtain: $2(n-3)$.
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SmartClown
82 posts
#16 • 2 Y
Y by magicarrow, Adventure10
Now the second solution: We will prove that we can divide the diagonals in $2$ subsets such that no $2$ diagonals from the same subset intersect each other.It is done by greedy algorithm.Let the first diagonal drawn be colored blue.Now for every next diagonal drawn if it intersects a blue diagonal we color it red.Otherwise we color it blue.Now we easily see that no $2$ blue diagonals or $2$ red diagonals intersect each other so we proved that our subsets exist.Now number of diagonals in both subsets is $\le n-3$ so the maximum number is $\le 2(n-3)$.Then we just give an example which is not hard.
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va2010
1276 posts
#17 • 3 Y
Y by Wizard_32, Adventure10, Mango247
The answer is $2(n-3)$. Let the polygon be $A_1A_2 \cdots A_n$. Now, go with $A_{k-1}A_{k+1}$ and then $A_1A_k$ for $k = 3$ through $k = n-1$. The only diagonals that $A_{k-1}A_{k+1}$ can cross are $A_{k-2}A_{k}$ and $A_1 A_k$, the second of which comes after. On the other hand, the only diagonal that $A_1A_k$ can ever cross is $A_{k-1}A_{k+1}$. Hence, this construction works.

We prove that $2(n-3)$ is the largest possible value. Let the answer for an $n$-gon be $f(n)$, and observe that $f(3) = 0$, $f(4) = 2$. We use induction. Now look at the last drawn diagonal, and let it divide the polygon into an $a$-gon and a $b$-gon, where $a + b = n+2$. Now see that there can be at most one diagonal that crosses the diagonal, and that the maximal number of diagonals completely within the $a$-gon and the $b$-gon sum to $f(a)+f(b)$. Hence, it is clear that \[ f(n) \le f(a) + f(b) + 2 = 2(a+b-6) + 2 = 2(n-4) + 2 = 2(n-3) \], so our induction is complete and the answer is $2(n-3)$, as desired.
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HamstPan38825
8857 posts
#19 • 1 Y
Y by jkim0656
The answer is $2n-6$ diagonals for general $n$. Let the polygon be $A_1A_2A_3\cdots A_n$.

For a construction, construct $n-1$ diagonals $\overline{A_iA_{i+2}}$ for $1 \leq i \leq n-1$, where indices are cyclic. Then, construct $n-5$ diagonals $\overline{A_1A_j}$ for $4 \leq j \leq n-2$, in that order.

To prove the bound, we argue inductively. Let $\ell$ be the last diagonal that was drawn. Then, $\ell$ intersects at most one other diagonal. All other diagonals must be contained in a $a+1$-gon or $b+1$-gon that $\ell$ partitions the $n$-gon into, where $a+b = n$. Thus, by the inductive hypothesis, the number of diagonals $$f(n) \leq f(a+1) + f(b+1) + 2 \leq (n-4)+(n-4) + 2 = 2n-6,$$as needed.
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EhsanHeidari
6 posts
#20 • 1 Y
Y by Parham.moshashaee
intresting fact:
This graph is planner graph and thats prove
how number of diagonals is at most $3n-6-n=2n-6$.
for proving this claim we just draw diagonals until we cant ،then we draw that edge from outside of polygon.if somewhere we cant do this ,thats result in a diagonal must intersect at least two others.that is contradiction.
so this graph is planner.
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joshualiu315
2533 posts
#21
Y by
We will show that the general result for an $n$-gon is $2n-6$. As a construction, in polygon $A_1A_2\dots A_n$, draw $A_iA_{i+2}$ for $1 \le i \le n-1$ and $A_1A_j$ for $4 \le j \le n-2$, where indices are modulo $n$.

To show that this is optimal, we will use strong induction. Suppose the inductive hypothesis holds for all $n < k$. Let the final diagonal drawn in a $k$-gon be $\ell$. Note that $\ell$ intersects at most $1$ other diagonal by the problem condition. Furthermore, suppose that $\ell$ splits the $k$-gon into an $(a+1)$-gon and a $(b+1)$-gon such that $a+b=k$ and $a,b<k$. The total number of diagonals is hence

\[(2(a+1)-6)+(2(b+1)-6)+2=2a+2b-6=2k-6,\]
completing the induction.

At this point, simply plugging $2011$ into the general formula yields $\boxed{4016}$.
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kamatadu
479 posts
#22 • 1 Y
Y by GeoKing
Let $n=2011$. The answer is $2n-6$ diagonals. We proceed by using strong induction. The base cases $n=3$ and $n=4$ can be checked by hand.

Now $\ell_1$ be the diagonal that we draw last. There is at most one more diagonal that intersects $\ell_1$.

So if $\ell_1$ divides the $n$ points into $p$ and $q$ points (the two partitions are disjoint, except that they both share the common points of $\ell_1$), then we get that the maximum number of diagonals is,
\[ \le (2p-6) + (2q-6) + 2= 2p + 2q -10 = 2(p+q-2) -6. \]
The $2$ in the first step are due to counting the two diagonals $\ell_1$ and $\ell_2$.

This completes our induction and we are done. The construction can also be done inductively. :yoda:
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dolphinday
1324 posts
#23
Y by
This is kind of dumb.
The greatest number of diagonals for an $n$-gon is $2n - 6$. We will prove this using induction.
$\newline$
Base Case:
$\newline$
We can see that for a triangle with $3$-side, this is obviously true.
$\newline$
Inductive Step:
$\newline$
The last diagonal we draw splits our polygon into an $p + 1$ sided polygon and a $q + 1$ sided polygon. Note that $p + q = n$.
$\newline$
Due the intersecting diagonal, the last diagonal can only intersect with another diagonal once.$\newline$
Then the total number of diagonals in our polygon(while assuming our formula to be true for the $p + 1$-sided polygon and the $q + 1$-sided polygon) is
$2(p + 1) - 6 + 2(q + 1) - 6 + 2$.(we add two, because we count the last diagonal and the diagonal that intersects the last diagonal)
$2(p + 1) - 6 + 2(q + 1) - 6 + 2 = 2(p + q) - 6 = 2n - 6$ so we are done.
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cursed_tangent1434
611 posts
#24
Y by
We solve the more general problem for a $n-$gon. Let $d(n)$ denote the maximum number of diagonals Peter can draw for a $n-$gon. We proceed via induction.

First note that $d(4)=2$ since that is the maximum number of total diagonals we can draw in a quadrilateral (and you can draw both without any issue). Now, consider a $n-$ gon for $n\geq 5$. Assume that for all $1 \leq k <n$ we have that $d(k) = 2(k-3)$. Then, we simply consider the last diagonal drawn in the $n-$gon. This separates the $n-$gon into two polygons with $a+2$ and $b+2$ vertices each such that $n=a+b+2$. Then,
\[d(n)  = 2 + d(a+2)+d(b+2)= 2+ 2(a-1)+2(b-1)=2(a+b-1) = 2((a+b+2)-3)=2(n-3)\](Here the leading +2 is due to the last drawn diagonal and the one and only diagonal with intersects it (if there are two or more we are not able to draw the last diagonal)). Thus, the induction is complete.

Now, this means the maximum number of diagonals Peter can drawn in a $2011-$gon is
\[d(2011)=2(2011-3)=2(2008)=4016\]diagonals.
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shendrew7
794 posts
#25
Y by
We claim that our answer is $\boxed{2n-6}$ for any $n$-gon. We can prove this bound and constructability through strong induction.

We show that a $k$-gon satisfies the inductive hypothesis given that 3-, 4-, $\ldots$, $(k-1)$-gons all hold. Note that the last diagonal drawn divides the $k$-gon into an $m$-gon and a $k+2-m$-gon. Also, this final diagonal must only intersect with at most one other diagonal, so our maximum bound is
\[(2m-6) + (2(k+2-m)-6) + 2 = 2k - 6,\]
as desired. This is achievable by simply taking 4 consecutive vertices $ABCD$ (in order) and setting $AC$ as the final diagonal and $BD$ as the only diagonal crossing $AC$. We are left with a $(k-1)$-gon that we can start constructing by drawing edges from $C$, so we indeed have $2(k-1)-6+2=2k-6$ diagonals. $\blacksquare$
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bebebe
992 posts
#26
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We claim that for a $n$-gon the greatest number of diagonals that can be drawn is $2n-6$. Base cases $n=3, 4$ work.


We use strong induction. Consider the last diagonal we draw. Say it splits the $n$-gon into a $p+1$-gon and a $q+1$-gon where $p+q=n.$ We also know that since most one diagonal intersects the last diagonal, at most one diagonal goes between the $p+1$ and $q+1$ gons. Thus, the maximal diagonals is $$2(p+1)-6 + 2(q+1)-6 + 2 = 2n - 6.$$

We need to show that this is achievable. For this we just need regular induction. Assume $2(n-1)-6$ diagonals is achievable for $n-1$-gon. There exists a vertex, $V$, on the $n-1$-gon such that the number of diagonals going through it is at most $1$ (can be easily shown by contradiction). Let the neighbors of $V$ be $N_1, N_2.$ Now to construct our $n$-gon, insert a new vertex, $N$ beween $V$ and $N_1.$ Finally draw the edges $NN_2$ then $VN_1.$ This $n$-gon will have $2(n-1)-6+2=2n-6$ edges, ad desired. \qed
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Marcus_Zhang
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#27
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Sol with bad write up

Interesting. The answer is $2n - 6$but if you consider $0$ intersections, the answer appears to be $n - 3$...
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edited by Marcus_Zhang, Apr 10, 2025, 3:20 AM
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eg4334
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#29
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Boring problem. The answer is $2n-6$. In a cylic fashion starting with $A_1$, draw $A_iA_{i+2}$ for $i = 1, 2, \dots n-1$ in that order. Now from $A_1A_i$ for $i=4, 5, \dots n-2$ in that order. This gives $n-1+n-5 = 2n-6$.

Now we prove the result by strong induction. Consider the last diagonal drawn, which can intersect another one. It splits the $n$ gon into an $m$ gon and $n+2-m$ gon obviously. Then, we have a maximum of $2m-6 + 2(n+2-m)-6 + 2 = 2n -6$.
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Maximilian113
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#30
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Did this before, going to post it now ig

We claim that the answer is $2n-6.$ We proceed with induction on $n.$ The base cases, $n=3, 4$ are trivial. Now suppose that the proposition holds for all $n \leq k$ for some positive integer $k \geq 4.$ Then consider a $k+1$-gon. Note that the last diagonal drawn intersects with at most one other diagonal. If this last diagonal separates the polygon into an $m$-gon and a $k-m+3$-gon, then by the inductive hypothesis we have at most $$2m-6+2(k-m+3)-6+2 = 2k-4 = 2(k+1)-6.$$Thus the bound is proven. For the construction, just consider construct $n-1$ diagonals of the form $P_i P_{i+2}$ for $1 \leq i \leq n-1,$ and then $n-5$ diagonals of the form $A_1A_j$ for $4 \leq j \leq n-2.$ Thus the induction is complete, so $2n-6$ is indeed the answer.
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