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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
Spring is in full swing and summer is right around the corner, what are your plans? At AoPS Online our schedule has new classes starting now through July, so be sure to keep your skills sharp and be prepared for the Fall school year! Check out the schedule of upcoming classes below.

WOOT early bird pricing is in effect, don’t miss out! If you took MathWOOT Level 2 last year, no worries, it is all new problems this year! Our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training program is for high school level competitors. AoPS designed these courses to help our top students get the deep focus they need to succeed in their specific competition goals. Check out the details at this link for all our WOOT programs in math, computer science, chemistry, and physics.

Looking for summer camps in math and language arts? Be sure to check out the video-based summer camps offered at the Virtual Campus that are 2- to 4-weeks in duration. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]April 3rd (Webinar), 4pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learning with AoPS: Perspectives from a Parent, Math Camp Instructor, and University Professor
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April 9th (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learn about Video-based Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus
[*]April 10th (Math Jam), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MathILy and MathILy-Er Math Jam: Multibackwards Numbers
[*]April 22nd (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Competitive Programming at AoPS (USACO).[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Regarding Maaths olympiad prepration
omega2007   13
N 2 minutes ago by omega2007
<Hey Everyone'>
I'm 10 grader student and Im starting prepration for maths olympiad..>>> From scratch (not 2+2=4 )

Do you haves compiled resources of Handouts,
PDF,
Links,
List of books topic wise

which are shared on AOPS (and from your perspective) for maths olympiad and any useful thing, which will help me in boosting Maths olympiad prepration.
13 replies
omega2007
Yesterday at 3:13 PM
omega2007
2 minutes ago
square root problem that involves geometry
kjhgyuio   5
N 3 minutes ago by kjhgyuio
If x is a nonnegative real number , find the minimum value of √x^2+4 + √x^2 -24x +153

5 replies
kjhgyuio
6 hours ago
kjhgyuio
3 minutes ago
PoP+Parallel
Solilin   3
N 4 minutes ago by ND_
Source: Titu Andreescu, Lemmas in Olympiad Geometry
Let ABC be a triangle and let D, E, F be the feet of the altitudes, with D on BC, E on CA, and F on AB. Let the parallel through D to EF meet AB at X and AC at Y. Let T be the intersection of EF with BC and let M be the midpoint of side BC. Prove that the points T, M, X, Y are concyclic.
3 replies
Solilin
4 hours ago
ND_
4 minutes ago
D1010 : How it is possible ?
Dattier   16
N 6 minutes ago by Dattier
Source: les dattes à Dattier
Is it true that$$\forall n \in \mathbb N^*, (24^n \times B \mod A) \mod 2 = 0 $$?

A=1728400904217815186787639216753921417860004366580219212750904
024377969478249664644267971025952530803647043121025959018172048
336953969062151534282052863307398281681465366665810775710867856
720572225880311472925624694183944650261079955759251769111321319
421445397848518597584590900951222557860592579005088853698315463
815905425095325508106272375728975

B=2275643401548081847207782760491442295266487354750527085289354
965376765188468052271190172787064418854789322484305145310707614
546573398182642923893780527037224143380886260467760991228567577
953725945090125797351518670892779468968705801340068681556238850
340398780828104506916965606659768601942798676554332768254089685
307970609932846902
16 replies
Dattier
Mar 10, 2025
Dattier
6 minutes ago
mathcounts state score thread
Soupboy0   70
N Today at 3:33 AM by Drekie
\begin{table}[]
\begin{tabular}{llllll}
Username & Score & Sprint & Target & Nats? & Sillies \\
     Soupboy0    &     40  &     24   &   16     &    yes  &    6     \\
         &       &        &        &       &         \\
         &       &        &        &       &        
\end{tabular}\end{table}
70 replies
Soupboy0
Apr 1, 2025
Drekie
Today at 3:33 AM
FTW tournament!
evt917   282
N Today at 3:14 AM by Yrock
[center]Since all FTW tournaments have dramatically failed, I'm trying a different format. Here is how it works:

1. Type \signup{your rating (type 800 for unrated)}

2. You will pick who you want to play with. You can play if they accept your challenge. So basically the players run everything. Just don't intentionally play low-rated people. Also try to play different people so everyone gets a chance to play! ONLY two player games.

3. If you win, you get 2 points. Ties get one point, and losses get zero.

4. I do not know everybody's time preferences. Because so, I will announce in advance which two players will be playing, so they themselves can organize a game themselves. Remember, THE PLAYERS ARE ORGANIZING THE GAMES THEMSELVES!!! The format is up to them, but please make the time control at least 20 seconds. Please announce the results of the game here so i can update the scoreboard. Games can be unrated.

recommended format if you cannot decide



5. The tournament goes on until april 18th! Extremely long, right? Note that you can still signup after the first games has started, but you will have a disadvantage because some people who signed up as soon as the tournament started already has points.

6. Once you are done with your game, you can find a new opponent and play with them if they want. Note that you must play opponents within the tournament. If you play in the tournament, you are automatically signed up. Have fun!


[rule]

Questions and Answers

All signups and ratings

[rule]

LIVE LEADERBOARD:

1st place: 43 points | 15W 3L 3T | Yrock
2nd place: 14 points | 6W 3L 2T | jb2015007
3rd place: 5 points | 2W 8L 1T | sadas123

4th place: 4 points | 1W 2L 0T | IcyFire500
5th place: 0 points | 0W 1L 0T | NS0004
282 replies
evt917
Thursday at 9:34 PM
Yrock
Today at 3:14 AM
mathcounts state discussion
Soupboy0   62
N Today at 3:01 AM by Soupboy0
les goo its finally april
62 replies
Soupboy0
Apr 1, 2025
Soupboy0
Today at 3:01 AM
Mathcounts state iowa
iwillregretthisnamelater   16
N Today at 2:52 AM by ixplujra
Ok I’m a 6th grader in Iowa who got 38 in chapter which was first, so what are the chances of me getting in nats? I should feel confident but I don’t. I have a week until states and I’m getting really anxious. What should I do? And also does the cdr count in Iowa? Because I heard that some states do cdr for fun or something and that it doesn’t count to final standings.
16 replies
iwillregretthisnamelater
Mar 20, 2025
ixplujra
Today at 2:52 AM
Problem of the week
evt917   55
N Today at 2:48 AM by Owen314159
Whenever possible, I will be posting problems twice a week! They will be roughly of AMC 8 difficulty. Have fun solving! Also, these problems are all written by myself!

First problem:

$20^{16}$ has how many digits?
55 replies
evt917
Mar 5, 2025
Owen314159
Today at 2:48 AM
Quadratics problem I came up with
V0305   3
N Today at 12:59 AM by jb2015007
$P(x)$ is a quadratic polynomial such that $P(1) = 2$ and $P(2) = 5$. Find all possible values of $P(7) - P(-4)$.
3 replies
V0305
Nov 3, 2024
jb2015007
Today at 12:59 AM
2025 MathCounts State Sprint #25
ilikemath247365   4
N Today at 12:05 AM by pingpongmerrily
Yay, MATHCOUNTS stuff has finally been published. Here is a nice problem from this year's test(that I sillied).

Ten fair coins are flipped simultaneously. What is the probability that the
product of the number of coins landing heads up and the number landing tails up
is at least 20? Express your answer as a common fraction.
4 replies
ilikemath247365
Yesterday at 11:03 PM
pingpongmerrily
Today at 12:05 AM
real math problems
Soupboy0   43
N Today at 12:00 AM by fruitmonster97
Ill be posting questions once in a while. Here's the first question:

What fraction of numbers from $1$ to $1000$ have the digit $7$ and are divisible by $3$?
43 replies
Soupboy0
Mar 25, 2025
fruitmonster97
Today at 12:00 AM
9 MATHCOUNTS STATE difficulty
Eddie_tiger   67
N Yesterday at 8:26 PM by DhruvJha
I personally thought the problems were much easier than last year, but I didn't really improve as much as I would of liked to improve.
67 replies
Eddie_tiger
Apr 1, 2025
DhruvJha
Yesterday at 8:26 PM
2⁠0⁠⁠2⁠4
Technodoggo   80
N Yesterday at 7:19 PM by SpeedCuber7
Happy New Year!
To celebrate the start of 2024, I've decided to put up a few facts about the year. I don't have many, so y'all should also

1

2

(1 and 2 are the same :sob: just distribute)

Post more cool facts here! Keep a running chain with quote boxes for facts. (I don't know if this technically qualifies as a marathon, but I hope this is allowed lol)
80 replies
Technodoggo
Jan 1, 2024
SpeedCuber7
Yesterday at 7:19 PM
INMO 2019 P5
div5252   48
N Nov 21, 2023 by Nagibator007
Let $AB$ be the diameter of a circle $\Gamma$ and let $C$ be a point on $\Gamma$ different from $A$ and $B$. Let $D$ be the foot of perpendicular from $C$ on to $AB$.Let $K$ be a point on the segment $CD$ such that $AC$ is equal to the semi perimeter of $ADK$.Show that the excircle of $ADK$ opposite $A$ is tangent to $\Gamma$.
48 replies
div5252
Jan 20, 2019
Nagibator007
Nov 21, 2023
INMO 2019 P5
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
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