USAMO vs USAJMO Prestige

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elasticwealth

303 posts

elasticwealth

#1 h Feb 17, 2025, 3:58 AM

Y by

Just curious, what does everyone think about the prestige of a USAMO qualification vs a USAJMO qual? Obv USAMO > USAJMO but how much?

And while we’re at it, what about amc 10 dhr vs amc 12 dhr? Thoughts?

Edit: also how much is a perfect score on 10/12 worth? Asking for a friend….

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by elasticwealth, Feb 17, 2025, 4:16 AM

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jellybeanzzz

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jellybeanzzz

#2 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:09 AM • 3 Y

Y by elasticwealth, centslordm, Alex-131

Under what context are you asking about prestige? If it’s within the AoPS community, I doubt that many really differentiate between the two olympiads. Realistically, making USAJMO but not making USAMO says only this: you were within the top 300 students for 10th grade and below, but weren’t able to maintain your position relative to others once you hit 11th grade.

Since you’re asking about dhr even as a usamo qual I’m gonna assume you’re asking in the context of college app awards? dhr means absolutely nothing if you are a usamo qualifier.

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elasticwealth

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elasticwealth

#3 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:10 AM

Y by

jellybeanzzz wrote:

Under what context are you asking about prestige? If it’s within the AoPS community, I doubt that many really differentiate between the two olympiads. Realistically, making USAJMO but not making USAMO says only this: you were within the top 300 students for 10th grade and below, but weren’t able to maintain your position relative to others once you hit 11th grade.

Since you’re asking about dhr even as a usamo qual I’m gonna assume you’re asking in the context of college app awards? dhr means absolutely nothing if you are a usamo qualifier.

I made jmo but am concerned 251 (12b+ii) won’t make, so I’m coping by reminding myself I have amc 12 dhr (which doesn’t mean much

)

And yes, asking in terms of college/general perception by camps, professors, students etc

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by elasticwealth, Feb 17, 2025, 4:11 AM

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hsuya1

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hsuya1

#4 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:12 AM • 1 Y

Y by khina

Omg 251 will make just stop

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elasticwealth

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elasticwealth

#5 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:13 AM

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ayush_agarwal wrote:

Omg 251 will make just stop

Not the point of the thread, I hope you’re right tho :pray

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axusus

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axusus

#6 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:21 AM

Y by

no way 251 doesnt make

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Equinox8

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Equinox8

#7 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:21 AM • 9 Y

Y by elasticwealth, studymoremath, Sedro, cdm, whslovemath, greenturtle3141, Alex-131, aidan0626, happyhippos

Alright, this probably isn't what you're looking for, but I'm a high school senior this year. Never made AIME and never will. And I understand it's easier for me to say this, but you should be proud of what you have achieved. I've finished my college applications and have gotten some back. Even without top-tier scores in competitions I'm still doing fine, and will be going to college next year (although it might put me in extreme debt. But I digress). I've found passions outside of competitive math that I love doing for their own sake. I'm not saying it's what you're doing, but I get the vibe that lots of people on this site could reevaluate their reasons for competition math. I don't do competition math because I want to write it on a resume, I enjoy them because they're a fun way to exercise my thinking. Prestige is almost a trap: you can never get enough of it.

And to answer your question more directly, the "general public" (myself included) probably wouldn't understand the distinctions between USAMO and USAJMO. My perception is that you're very bright. In my view, DHR means more than you probably think it does. It means you've stuck to it, pouring so much effort into competitive math, regardless of your motivation, and you should be proud of that. You scored in the top 1% of everyone who took the AMC 12. It's so easy to compare yourself to others, but take a second, breathe, and be proud of how far you've come already.

Here's a post from someone more qualified than I am, with lots of the same ideas, if that's what you're looking for.

This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by Equinox8, Feb 17, 2025, 4:27 AM
Reason: +B-T post

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elasticwealth

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elasticwealth

#8 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:42 AM

Y by

Thank you. I was asking more from a college app awards section standpoint but thanks for sharing

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Equinox8

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Equinox8

#9 h Feb 17, 2025, 4:44 AM

Y by

elasticwealth wrote:

Thank you. I was asking more from a college app awards section standpoint but thanks for sharing

Not sure if anyone who isn't an admissions officer can tell you that definitively, but there's no reason to not list it. Best of luck for when you do apply/if you already have.

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LearnMath_105

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LearnMath_105

#10 h Feb 17, 2025, 5:17 AM

Y by

just saying even making usajmo puts you in the top 400ish math students in the world and seeing as each college probably has ~100 math majors you'll likely make a really good college (t20 probably? not qualified to talk abt this part)

@below
usamo is top 200 11th graders and below and then usajmo is basically the next 200 that are 10th graders and below

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by LearnMath_105, Feb 17, 2025, 5:27 AM

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studymoremath

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studymoremath

#11 h Feb 17, 2025, 5:21 AM

Y by

Wait wouldn't USAMO and USAJMO qualification carry the same prestige? They're both top ~300 the only difference is whether you popped off earlier in life or later

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jellybeanzzz

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jellybeanzzz

#12 h Feb 17, 2025, 6:09 AM • 2 Y

Y by elasticwealth, centslordm

As OP has clarified he’s asking about college applications, I would like to mention that showing improvement is always good. “Popping off later,” or growth, is evidence that you have a high ceiling in terms of learning.

also 251 is qualifying chill :skull: focus on getting your oly skills up, “USAMO ___ Medalist” looks a lot better than “USAMO Qualifier”

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mathleticguyyy

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mathleticguyyy

#13 h Feb 17, 2025, 6:23 AM • 17 Y

Y by aidan0626, LemonMatcha, Pengu14, elasticwealth, balllightning37, studymoremath, Rong0625, centslordm, Andyluo, Lhaj3, justJen, happypi31415, Tem8, cappucher, DankBasher619, PaixiaoLover, vrondoS

The numbers had been posted. He sat at the desk and stared at them for a long time. The room was quiet but for the whir of the ceiling fan, its slow revolutions stirring the stale air like some ponderous clock measuring out the last minutes of a life. His fingers curled around the edge of the desk, and he read the number again.

Two seventy two point five.

His breath caught in his throat. His stomach twisted. That couldn’t be right. He read it again, and then again, his vision blurring at the edges. 251 was supposed to be safe. More than safe. A fortress of a score, built on years of precedent, an ironclad assurance that he would qualify. And yet, it had failed him. It was impossible. The world did not care. The sun would still rise, a great indifferent eye peeling back the dark, and it would burn just the same whether he had scored 251 or 272.5 or nothing at all.

He reached for the scrap of paper where he had written the sum himself just that morning. The AMC score, the AIME, the weight of it all turned into numbers and formulas, a machinery that ground out judgment with no need for human feeling. He had done the math once, twice. Had counted the points like a man counting coins in the last hours before foreclosure. But there was no mistaking it. He was short. He was really short.

In the kitchen, the faucet dripped. He thought about turning it off tighter, but he did not move. Somewhere out beyond the window, cars hummed along the road, their engines carrying people toward destinations unknown. The night settled in. The numbers remained what they were. There was no appeal to be made. No god to pray to who could turn back the clock and offer him another AIME problem correct, another few marks scrawled true instead of false.

His fingers tightened around the edge of the desk. His breath came shallow. He could feel his pulse thudding in his ears, his head suddenly light. He let the paper fall from his hands and watched it flutter to the floor. The air moved and took it where it would. He thought of the months spent preparing, the books with their pages worn thin, the problems worked over until his fingers ached, and now, at the end of it all, a number on a screen telling him the door was closed. Not even with a bang. Just a quiet shutting. A number that meant something and nothing all at once.

In the morning, the sun would rise. The faucet would drip. He would wake and go about his life, and the world would not change for him. But tonight, he sat in the quiet of the room, listening to the slow tick of time and the hush of things passing beyond his reach.

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by mathleticguyyy, Feb 17, 2025, 6:24 AM

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Pengu14

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Pengu14

#14 h Feb 17, 2025, 1:51 PM • 2 Y

Y by Lhaj3, Airbus320-214

272.5 isn’t even a possible index lol

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studymoremath

412 posts

studymoremath

#15 h Feb 17, 2025, 3:14 PM

Y by

mathleticguyyy wrote:

The numbers had been posted. He sat at the desk and stared at them for a long time. The room was quiet but for the whir of the ceiling fan, its slow revolutions stirring the stale air like some ponderous clock measuring out the last minutes of a life. His fingers curled around the edge of the desk, and he read the number again.

Two seventy two point five.

His breath caught in his throat. His stomach twisted. That couldn’t be right. He read it again, and then again, his vision blurring at the edges. 251 was supposed to be safe. More than safe. A fortress of a score, built on years of precedent, an ironclad assurance that he would qualify. And yet, it had failed him. It was impossible. The world did not care. The sun would still rise, a great indifferent eye peeling back the dark, and it would burn just the same whether he had scored 251 or 272.5 or nothing at all.

He reached for the scrap of paper where he had written the sum himself just that morning. The AMC score, the AIME, the weight of it all turned into numbers and formulas, a machinery that ground out judgment with no need for human feeling. He had done the math once, twice. Had counted the points like a man counting coins in the last hours before foreclosure. But there was no mistaking it. He was short. He was really short.

In the kitchen, the faucet dripped. He thought about turning it off tighter, but he did not move. Somewhere out beyond the window, cars hummed along the road, their engines carrying people toward destinations unknown. The night settled in. The numbers remained what they were. There was no appeal to be made. No god to pray to who could turn back the clock and offer him another AIME problem correct, another few marks scrawled true instead of false.

His fingers tightened around the edge of the desk. His breath came shallow. He could feel his pulse thudding in his ears, his head suddenly light. He let the paper fall from his hands and watched it flutter to the floor. The air moved and took it where it would. He thought of the months spent preparing, the books with their pages worn thin, the problems worked over until his fingers ached, and now, at the end of it all, a number on a screen telling him the door was closed. Not even with a bang. Just a quiet shutting. A number that meant something and nothing all at once.

In the morning, the sun would rise. The faucet would drip. He would wake and go about his life, and the world would not change for him. But tonight, he sat in the quiet of the room, listening to the slow tick of time and the hush of things passing beyond his reach.

Amen life goes on no matter what

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cdm

273 posts

cdm

#34 h Feb 17, 2025, 7:44 PM

Y by

elasticwealth wrote:

Just curious, what does everyone think about the prestige of a USAMO qualification vs a USAJMO qual? Obv USAMO > USAJMO but how much?

And while we’re at it, what about amc 10 dhr vs amc 12 dhr? Thoughts?

Edit: also how much is a perfect score on 10/12 worth? Asking for a friend….

in the context of college admissions, many AO's don't even know what olympiads are (outside of MIT, caltech, and some other stem schools), so it would be hard for them to differentiate between the two. the notion that most usa(j)mo qualifiers go to good colleges is not only false but also more correlation rather than causation, as most of them are talented in other areas as well.

however in terms of difficulty and prestige, i would say usamo is harder by a long shot (usually need 1 to 2 questions higher on aime to qualify, and amc 12 crushes amc 10 in terms of difficulty)

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jellybeanzzz

475 posts

jellybeanzzz

#36 h Feb 17, 2025, 9:23 PM

Y by

cdm wrote:

in the context of college admissions, many AO's don't even know what olympiads are (outside of MIT, caltech, and some other stem schools), so it would be hard for them to differentiate between the two. the notion that most usa(j)mo qualifiers go to good colleges is not only false but also more correlation rather than causation, as most of them are talented in other areas as well.

Sorry this is just completely incorrect. AO’s from “t20” or even “t40” schools are fully aware of the difficulty of qualifying for usamo and how much of a time commitment that is. And “the notion that most usa(j)mo qualifiers go to good colleges” is completely true. It is also true that there exists correlation between math oly and success in other ventures.

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Equinox8

1740 posts

Equinox8

#37 h Feb 17, 2025, 9:25 PM • 1 Y

Y by jellybeanzzz

User @jellybeanzzz above has a lot of good points that I agree with. I'll add on a bit to what they've said:

xTimmyG wrote:

Please explain what high schoolers are supposed to do other than study to get into a good college. Play video games? Learn how to dropship?

Actually, there's a lot. Volunteer at your local food bank. Become an advocate for a cause you care about. Learn how to sew. Spend time with your family. Might you consider Harvard a "good college", just as an example?

Harvard College wrote:

Our admissions policies are based on many criteria. Some are academic; others are not...Most of all we look for students who make the most of their opportunities and the resources available to them, and who are likely to continue to do so throughout their lives.

---

Happyllamaalways wrote:

Well yeah I understand that, but us AIME takers tend to have little to no experience in humanities, literature, social skills, dealing with people, etc. That means we need good AIME scores to balance it out.

I don't think this is the right idea. Ivies in particular (such as Harvard, again) are liberal arts colleges, valuing all of the listed skills. And it's very wrong to say that "AIME takers" as a group have "little to no experience" in those listed skills.

Happyllamaalways wrote:

Dawg either of those gives you a 90+% boost in college admissions and allows you to assert dominance over 99.9+% of people

85% of statistics are also made up on the spot. And how does one "assert dominance", exactly?

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lovematch13

652 posts

lovematch13

#38 h Feb 17, 2025, 9:32 PM

Y by

Happyllamaalways wrote:

jellybeanzzz wrote:

Please remember that not everybody has the same goals. Maybe some people just want to enjoy their 4 years of hs.

Well yeah I understand that, but us AIME takers tend to have little to no experience in humanities, literature, social skills, dealing with people, etc. That means we need good AIME scores to balance it out.

No. That reasoning leads to comp math people being portrayed as no life dungeon dwellers. Also, balance is essential in life. I can tell you that I read every night for my own fun, I play video games for several reasons, I have a community of math friends who almost all share my viewpoint about school and college (MP ‘24), I actually give my best at school, and I enjoy school for a legitimate reason.

xTimmyG wrote:

lovematch13 wrote:

forgot lol wrote:

I think you'll probably find this kind of behavior in many generations of high schoolers, whether it's because of parental pressure, striving to be the best version of themselves and using college to measure that, or otherwise. This isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but when it goes overboard it's sometimes unbearable to watch. I see this on AoPS a lot (as well as places like CollegeConfidential, r/ApplyingtoCollege, and r/ChanceMe) and it sometimes makes my brain hurt D:

I think a good antidote is to also pursue other interests too, just for the sake of those interests alone. I participated in a poetry recitation competition not because I thought I'd make it to the national level but because I think it's a cool art form.

Although my parents are Asian, I’m eternally grateful for the freedom I get.

I personally distance myself from those who hold a good college as their only goal in high school.

Statistically you have a much higher chance of getting a higher paying job if you go to a good college. If you go to an ivy, this is even further exacerbated. Please explain what high schoolers are supposed to do other than study to get into a good college. Play video games? Learn how to dropship?

Have fun, learn how to learn, learn fun things, find something fun to pursue in life, develop social skills, do something good in the community, try to make the world a better place-all better options in my eyes

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by lovematch13, Feb 17, 2025, 9:44 PM

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lovematch13

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lovematch13

#39 h Feb 17, 2025, 9:34 PM

Y by

Happyllamaalways wrote:

elasticwealth wrote:

Just curious, what does everyone think about the prestige of a USAMO qualification vs a USAJMO qual? Obv USAMO > USAJMO but how much?

And while we’re at it, what about amc 10 dhr vs amc 12 dhr? Thoughts?

Edit: also how much is a perfect score on 10/12 worth? Asking for a friend….

Dawg either of those gives you a 90+% boost in college admissions and allows you to assert dominance over 99.9+% of people

Where did you get these statistics from??? Also what difference does it make at the end of the day even if it’s 99.99999%?

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xTimmyG

242 posts

xTimmyG

#40 h Feb 17, 2025, 10:38 PM • 1 Y

Y by elasticwealth

lovematch13 wrote:

Have fun, learn how to learn, learn fun things, find something fun to pursue in life, develop social skills, do something good in the community, try to make the world a better place-all better options in my eyes

what is an average high schooler gonna do to make the world better significantly. the rest of the points in your list are something that people should do alongside studying, rather than replacing it entirely, it's always good to balance stuff out.

i wanted to add that failing to balance out these life skills and spending too much on studying will lead to the stereotypical "nerd" lifestyle, which certainly is not successful for most people. but the main point still stands: it's very helpful to get into a good college if you want to succeed (for most of americans this is making money)

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by xTimmyG, Feb 17, 2025, 10:41 PM

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lovematch13

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lovematch13

#41 h Feb 17, 2025, 10:49 PM

Y by

I actually kind of agree with xtimmy in this post, but who better to hear from than a former comp math kid?

Yeah... That's a pretty naive high school take. I was similar back then so I can sympathize (parents basically trained me to get into college since elementary school). What you learn both matters and doesn't. Learning how to learn is probably the most important thing you can take away from both. I hope they can learn to chill just a little bit. My brother went to the state school and I went to one of the best schools in the country and we work the exact same job now. College is still a stepping stone at the end of the day, and tbh so are jobs. The goal should be figuring what makes you happy in life, and I don't really expect high schoolers to know the answer to that question.

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Lhaj3

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Lhaj3

#42 h Feb 17, 2025, 10:51 PM

Y by

Happyllamaalways wrote:

lovematch13 wrote:

(also why is this generation of high schoolers all about college)

well then why else do people go to high school

only a third of people get bachelors degrees in the US, and less than half have an associates degree or higher

This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by Lhaj3, Feb 17, 2025, 10:51 PM

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oinava

506 posts

oinava

#43 h Feb 19, 2025, 4:22 AM

Y by

Here's the problem with USAMO/USAJMO. Everyone doing it is doing the same thing.

250 USAMO kids solve the same 21 AIME+MO problems.

250 ISEF/STS kids create 250 UNIQUE science projects. (Some are math projects!)

Being smart isn't enough. You have to be useful.

USAMO/USAJMO aren't very interesting on their own.

But people who make USAMO/USAJMO, without making it their entire life, are often great at other things too.

IMO team, or AMO/JMO winner = GREAT

USAMO/USAJMO + math/science research project or CS/engineering invention or some other unique or useful achievement, or super strong academics in all subjects = GREAT

But also:
AIME + that stuff above... = GREAT

(The boundary between high AIME (many people) and AMO/JMO (few people) is tiny... being a little but faster, getting lucky/unlucky on a guess or careless mistake.

USAMO/USAJMO super-spike and nothing else of note (this is rare!) = impressive, but... it's just a high school game, like being pretty good at chess, or being elite at Scrabble.

IMO (In My Opinion)

This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by oinava, Feb 19, 2025, 4:49 AM

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aidan0626

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aidan0626

#44 h Feb 19, 2025, 4:41 AM • 1 Y

Y by elasticwealth

oinava wrote:

(The boundary between AIME and AMO/JMO is tiny... being a little but faster, getting lucky/unlucky on a guess or careless mistake.

what
the first time i made aime i was not even close to jmo

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oinava

506 posts

oinava

#45 h Feb 19, 2025, 4:50 AM

Y by

aidan0626 wrote:

oinava wrote:

(The boundary between AIME and AMO/JMO is tiny... being a little but faster, getting lucky/unlucky on a guess or careless mistake.

what
the first time i made aime i was not even close to jmo

I mean the boundary between qualifying and not-qualifying for JMO/AMO

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axusus

811 posts

axusus

#46 h Mar 18, 2025, 12:21 AM

Y by

Pengu14 wrote:

272.5 isn’t even a possible index lol

bro is claiming 142.5 on amcs wtf

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axusus

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axusus

#47 h Mar 18, 2025, 12:22 AM

Y by

very plausible, 23 right and 3 unanswered :wacko:

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BS2012

920 posts

BS2012

#48 h Mar 18, 2025, 12:33 AM

Y by

oinava wrote:

Here's the problem with USAMO/USAJMO. Everyone doing it is doing the same thing.

250 USAMO kids solve the same 21 AIME+MO problems.

250 ISEF/STS kids create 250 UNIQUE science projects. (Some are math projects!)

Being smart isn't enough. You have to be useful.

USAMO/USAJMO aren't very interesting on their own.

But people who make USAMO/USAJMO, without making it their entire life, are often great at other things too.

IMO team, or AMO/JMO winner = GREAT

USAMO/USAJMO + math/science research project or CS/engineering invention or some other unique or useful achievement, or super strong academics in all subjects = GREAT

But also:
AIME + that stuff above... = GREAT

(The boundary between high AIME (many people) and AMO/JMO (few people) is tiny... being a little but faster, getting lucky/unlucky on a guess or careless mistake.

USAMO/USAJMO super-spike and nothing else of note (this is rare!) = impressive, but... it's just a high school game, like being pretty good at chess, or being elite at Scrabble.

IMO (In My Opinion)

smart people can become useful later in life
also who said high schoolers "research" projects are useful

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axusus

811 posts

axusus

#49 h Mar 18, 2025, 12:36 AM

Y by

BS2012 wrote:

oinava wrote:

Here's the problem with USAMO/USAJMO. Everyone doing it is doing the same thing.

250 USAMO kids solve the same 21 AIME+MO problems.

250 ISEF/STS kids create 250 UNIQUE science projects. (Some are math projects!)

Being smart isn't enough. You have to be useful.

USAMO/USAJMO aren't very interesting on their own.

But people who make USAMO/USAJMO, without making it their entire life, are often great at other things too.

IMO team, or AMO/JMO winner = GREAT

USAMO/USAJMO + math/science research project or CS/engineering invention or some other unique or useful achievement, or super strong academics in all subjects = GREAT

But also:
AIME + that stuff above... = GREAT

(The boundary between high AIME (many people) and AMO/JMO (few people) is tiny... being a little but faster, getting lucky/unlucky on a guess or careless mistake.

USAMO/USAJMO super-spike and nothing else of note (this is rare!) = impressive, but... it's just a high school game, like being pretty good at chess, or being elite at Scrabble.

IMO (In My Opinion)

smart people can become useful later in life
also who said high schoolers "research" projects are useful

i mean i feel like by college if you haven't done something useful in your life you are slightly cooked unless you pop off
and a lot of people say high school "research" projects are useful, its just that most arent.

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