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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
AMC 10/AIME Study Forum
PatTheKing806   140
N an hour ago by PikaPika999
[center]

Me (PatTheKing806) and EaZ_Shadow have created a AMC 10/AIME Study Forum! Hopefully, this forum wont die quickly. To signup, do /join or \join.

Click here to join! (or do some pushups) :P

People should join this forum if they are wanting to do well on the AMC 10 next year, trying get into AIME, or loves math!
140 replies
PatTheKing806
Mar 27, 2025
PikaPika999
an hour ago
memorize your 60 120 degree triangles
OronSH   14
N an hour ago by Apple_maths60
Source: 2024 AMC 12A #19
Cyclic quadrilateral $ABCD$ has lengths $BC=CD=3$ and $DA=5$ with $\angle CDA=120^\circ$. What is the length of the shorter diagonal of $ABCD$?

$
\textbf{(A) }\frac{31}7 \qquad
\textbf{(B) }\frac{33}7 \qquad
\textbf{(C) }5 \qquad
\textbf{(D) }\frac{39}7 \qquad
\textbf{(E) }\frac{41}7 \qquad
$
14 replies
OronSH
Nov 7, 2024
Apple_maths60
an hour ago
2025 Math and AI 4 Girls Competition: Win Up To $1,000!!!
audio-on   25
N an hour ago by mathandai
Join the 2025 Math and AI 4 Girls Competition for a chance to win up to $1,000!

Hey Everyone, I'm pleased to announce the dates for the 2025 MA4G Competition are set!
Applications will open on March 22nd, 2025, and they will close on April 26th, 2025 (@ 11:59pm PST).

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Winners will be announced on June 28, 2025 during an online award ceremony.

Application requirements:
Complete a 12 question problem set on math and computer science/AI related topics
Write 2 short essays

Prizes:
1st place: $1,000 Cash prize
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4th-10th: $100 Cash prize each
11th-20th: $50 Cash prize each
Top 50 contestants: Over $50 worth of gadgets and stationary


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Math and AI 4 Girls is a nonprofit organization aiming to encourage young girls to develop an interest in math and AI by taking part in STEM competitions and activities at an early age. The organization will be hosting an inaugural Math and AI 4 Girls competition to identify talent and encourage long-term planning of academic and career goals in STEM.

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For more information on the competition:
https://www.mathandai4girls.org/math-and-ai-4-girls-competition

More information on how to register will be posted on the website. If you have any questions, please ask here!


25 replies
2 viewing
audio-on
Jan 26, 2025
mathandai
an hour ago
Those who know
centslordm   29
N 2 hours ago by Apple_maths60
Source: 2024 AMC 12A #15
The roots of $x^3 + 2x^2 - x + 3$ are $p, q,$ and $r.$ What is the value of \[(p^2 + 4)(q^2 + 4)(r^2 + 4)?\]
$\textbf{(A) } 64 \qquad \textbf{(B) } 75 \qquad \textbf{(C) } 100 \qquad \textbf{(D) } 125 \qquad \textbf{(E) } 144$
29 replies
centslordm
Nov 7, 2024
Apple_maths60
2 hours ago
No more topics!
The Empty Set Exists
Archimedes15   37
N Apr 3, 2025 by lpieleanu
Source: 2021 AIME II P6
For any finite set $S$, let $|S|$ denote the number of elements in $S$. FInd the number of ordered pairs $(A,B)$ such that $A$ and $B$ are (not necessarily distinct) subsets of $\{1,2,3,4,5\}$ that satisfy
$$|A| \cdot |B| = |A \cap B| \cdot |A \cup B|$$
37 replies
Archimedes15
Mar 19, 2021
lpieleanu
Apr 3, 2025
The Empty Set Exists
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: 2021 AIME II P6
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Archimedes15
1491 posts
#1 • 2 Y
Y by megarnie, cubres
For any finite set $S$, let $|S|$ denote the number of elements in $S$. FInd the number of ordered pairs $(A,B)$ such that $A$ and $B$ are (not necessarily distinct) subsets of $\{1,2,3,4,5\}$ that satisfy
$$|A| \cdot |B| = |A \cap B| \cdot |A \cup B|$$
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Jzhang21
308 posts
#2 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I got 454.
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HamstPan38825
8857 posts
#3 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
forgot to count the intersection, luckily found my error in the last ~10 minutes

Basically $A \subseteq B$ or $B \subseteq A$ then subtract $A=B$

$3^5 \cdot 2 - 2^5=454$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by HamstPan38825, Mar 19, 2021, 5:15 PM
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i_equal_tan_90
34 posts
#4 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Click to reveal hidden text
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by i_equal_tan_90, Mar 19, 2021, 7:57 PM
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UnicornPanda
105 posts
#5 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I got $455$. Can someone please explain how to get $454$?
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eduD_looC
6610 posts
#6 • 4 Y
Y by ike.chen, mathking999, Mango247, cubres
$|A|+|B|-|A \cap B| = |A \cup B|$, so substituting gives

\begin{align*}
|A| \cdot |B| &= |A \cap B|(|A| + |B| - |A \cap B|)\\
|A||B| - |A \cap B||A| - |A \cap B||B| + |A \cap B| &= 0\\
(|A| - |A \cap B|)(|B| - |A \cap B|) &= 0.\\
\end{align*}
Therefore, we must have $|A| = |A \cap B|$ or $|B| = |A \cap B|$, so this implies $A \subseteq B$ or $B \subseteq A$.

Then do some more PIE.
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JimY
627 posts
#7 • 4 Y
Y by Mango247, Mango247, Mango247, cubres
Casework on the value of $|A|, $ and realize that either $ B \subseteq A$ or $A \subseteq B$ :

$\binom{5}{0}2^5 + \binom{5}{1}2^4 + \binom{5}{2}2^3 + \binom{5}{3}2^2 + \binom{5}{4}2 + \binom{5}{5} - 2^5 = 211$ possibilities of $B$ where $|B| > |A|. $ Times that by $2$ then add in the possibilities where $|A| = |B|$ to get $422 + 2^5 = \boxed{454}. $
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by JimY, Mar 19, 2021, 5:27 PM
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djmathman
7936 posts
#8 • 12 Y
Y by HamstPan38825, 631558, AMC_Kid, bluelinfish, samrocksnature, peace09, kavya.rajesh, megarnie, rayfish, ike.chen, programjames1, cubres
By PIE, $|A| + |B| = |A\cap B| + |A\cup B|$, so $\{|A|, |B|\} = \{|A\cap B|, |A\cup B|\}$ (use Vieta). This implies either $A\subseteq B$ or $B\subseteq A$.

In the former case, each element of $\{1,2,3,4,5\}$ has three possibilities: in both $A$ and $B$, in $A$ but not $B$, or in neither $A$ nor $B$. This gives $3^5$ possibilities in that case. Analogously, $3^5$ possibilities in the second case.

Subtracting off the $2^5 = 32$ cases where $A = B$ gives a final answer of $2\cdot 3^5 - 2^5 = 454$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by djmathman, Mar 19, 2021, 5:21 PM
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Archimedes15
1491 posts
#9 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
A lot of people I talked to seem to have missed the empty set.

Interestingly enough this appears to be one of the first AIME problems ever where non-empty was not specified.
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ilovepizza2020
12156 posts
#10 • 4 Y
Y by megarnie, Mango247, Mango247, cubres
Another reading exercise on AIME.
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khina
993 posts
#11 • 3 Y
Y by CyclicISLscelesTrapezoid, Mango247, cubres
Darn so in the contest I thought this would be killed by this.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by khina, Mar 19, 2021, 5:24 PM
Reason: fix url
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dogsareawesome123
131 posts
#12 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I was kinda worried abt empty vs nonempty lol, I just assumed empty was ok thankfully
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kred9
1021 posts
#13 • 4 Y
Y by Inconsistent, greenturtle3141, BakedPotato66, cubres
Draw a Venn Diagram, and call $a$ the number of elements in $A$ but not $B$, $b$ the number of elements in $B$ but not $A$, and $c$ the number of elements $A$ and $B$. Then we get $(a+c)(b+c) = (a+c+b)c$ so $ab=0$.

If $a=0$, then each of the remaining numbers must be in $b$ or $c$ or neither, meaning $3^5$ ways.
If $b=0$, it is also $3^5$ ways.
If $a=b=0$, each number can either be in $c$ or not in $c$, so $2^5$.

So the answer is $2*3^5-2^5 = 486 - 32 = 454$.
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etotheipiplusone
35 posts
#14 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
One way you can think about this is that $|A| + |B| = |A \cup B| + |A \cap B|$ all the time, and if $x_1x_2 = y_1y_2$ and $x_1 + x_2 = y_1 + y_2$ then $\{x_1,x_2\} = \{y_1,y_2\}$ so either $|A|$ or $|B|$ is equal to $|A \cap B|$ and then proceed as others said.
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sae123
692 posts
#15 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Use PIE, factor with SFFT, and find that $A \subseteq B$ or the opposite. Then count.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#16 • 12 Y
Y by djmathman, insertionsort, Imayormaynotknowcalculus, HamstPan38825, khina, scrabbler94, samrocksnature, Mathematicsislovely, megarnie, rayfish, Ritwin, cubres
This was my problem. I'm surprised that people "missed" the empty set since (AFAIK) you need to do extra work to exclude it, assuming you have the nice solution.

In my head, since $|A|+|B| = |A\cap B| + |A \cup B|$, if the products are equal as well, then by Vieta formula it follows that $|A|$ and $|B|$ are roots of same polynomial as $|A \cap B|$ and $|A \cup B|$, hence the main claim.
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math31415926535
5617 posts
#17 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
UnicornPanda wrote:
I got $455$. Can someone please explain how to get $454$?

probably you forgot the empty set
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sidchukkayapally
669 posts
#18 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Neat
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eduD_looC
6610 posts
#19 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
math31415926535 wrote:
UnicornPanda wrote:
I got $455$. Can someone please explain how to get $454$?

probably you forgot the empty set

No. If @UnicornPanda forgot the empty set, the answer gotten would've been $453$.
Z K Y
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ilovepizza2020
12156 posts
#20 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
eduD_looC wrote:
math31415926535 wrote:
UnicornPanda wrote:
I got $455$. Can someone please explain how to get $454$?

probably you forgot the empty set

No. If @UnicornPanda forgot the empty set, the answer gotten would've been $453$.

They forgot to include the empty set
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ike.chen
1162 posts
#21 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I'm pretty late (just mocked this now) but the factorization instantly reminded me of JMC 10 #18 (https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c1465090h2420752p19921359) for some reason.

Chden saved my life again lol.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by ike.chen, Mar 21, 2021, 5:50 AM
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PlaneGod
452 posts
#22 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
doesnt everyone know the empty set exists?
what does the title mean
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ilovepizza2020
12156 posts
#23 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
PlaneGod wrote:
doesnt everyone know the empty set exists?
what does the title mean

Duuude most problems say to disregard the empty set but this one needs you to not disregard it.
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aaja3427
1918 posts
#24 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
PlaneGod wrote:
doesnt everyone know the empty set exists?
what does the title mean

I don't know if you got the joke or not but basically the title says that since a lot of people missed the empty set.
It's kinda like saying "Complex solutions exist" if someone says that the sum of the real solutions of $x^2+4x+333=0$ is -4.
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sugar_rush
1341 posts
#25 • 2 Y
Y by Mango247, cubres
I'm getting $391$
solution
Can someone please explain why $391$ is incorrect?
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franchester
1487 posts
#26 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
sugar_rush wrote:
I'm getting $391$
solution
Can someone please explain why $391$ is incorrect?

$A$ and $B$ dont have to be nonempty
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megarnie
5553 posts
#27 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
The worst solution.

Case 1: $A$ is empty.
Then this is always true, giving a total of $32$.

Case 2: $A$ has one element.
WLOG $A=\{1\}$.

Then if $B$ is not empty, then $1\in B$. Any such $B$ works. So there are $16$ ways.

If $b$ is empty, then there is $1$ way.

Total for this case is $17\cdot 5=85$.

Case 3: $A$ has $2$ elements.
WLOG $A=\{1,2\}$.

If $B$ contains both $1$ and $2$, then all such $B$ work, giving $8$.

If $B$ doesn't contain $1$ or $2$, then $B$ is empty, giving $1$.

if $B$ contains $1$ but not $2$, then $2|B|=|B|+1\implies |B|=1$. Thus, there is $1$ way.

If $B$ contains $2$ but not $1$, then there is $1$ way.

Total is $10\cdot 11=110$.

Case 4: $A$ has $3$ elements.
Then WLOG $A=\{1,2,3\}$.

If $|A\cup B|=0$, then $B$ is empty. $1$ way.

If $|A\cup B|=1$, then $3|B|=|B|+2\implies |B|=1$. $3$ ways.

If $|A\cup B|=2$, then $3|B|=2(|B|+1)\implies |B|=2$. $3$ ways.

If $|A\cup B|=3$, then there are $4$ total ways, all work.

Thus, total for this case is $11\cdot 10=110$.

Case 5: $|A|=4$.
WLOG $A=\{1,2,3,4\}$.

If $|A\cup B|=0$, then $B$ is empty. $1$ way.

If $|A\cup B|=1$, then $|B|=1$. $4$ ways.

If $|A\cup B|=2$, then $|B|=2$. $6$ ways.

If $|A\cup B|=3$, then $|B|=3$. $4$ ways.

If $|A\cup B|=4$, then there are $2$ ways.

So total for this case is $5\cdot 17=85$.

Case 6: $|A|=5$.
Then $A=\{1,2,3,4,5\}$.

Any subset for $B$ works, giving a total of $32$.


Answer is $2(32+85+110)=\boxed{454}$.
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megarnie
5553 posts
#28 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Looks like I mixed up $\cup$ with $\cap$ in my previous solution.

We can check that either $A\subseteq B$ or $B\subseteq A$ and everything of this form works.

Case 1: $A\subseteq B$.
Then there are $2^5+5\cdot 2^4+10\cdot 2^3+10\cdot 2^2+5\cdot 2^1+1=(2+1)^5=243$ ways.

Case 2: $B\subseteq A$.
Then there are also $243$ ways.

Case 3: $A=B$.
Then there are $32$ ways.

So the answer is $243+243-32=\boxed{454}$.
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brainfertilzer
1831 posts
#29 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
We use PIE: $|A\cup B| = |A| + |B| - |A\cap B|$. Hence
\[ |A|\cdot |B| = |A\cap B|\cdot (|A| + |B| - |A\cap B|).\]
Let $|A| = a$, $|B| = b$, and $|A\cap B| = i$. Then
\[ ab = ai +bi - i^2\]\[ a(b-i) = bi - i^2 = i(b-i).\]
Hence $i = b$ or $i = a$. The only way for this to happen is either if $A\subseteq B$ or $B\subseteq A$. WLOG, let $A\subseteq B$ (we will deal with some complications later). If $B$ has $j$ elements, there are $\binom{5}{j}$ ways to choose $B$. Then there are $2^j$ ways to choose $A$. The total number of ways is
\[ \sum_{j = 0}^{5}2^j\binom{5}{j} = 1 + 10 + 40 + 80 + 80 + 32 = 243.\]
Now, there should $2\cdot 243 = 486$ ways, but we overcounted the case $A = B$ once, which has $2^5 = 32$ ways of happening. The answer is $486 - 32 = \boxed{454}$.
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samrocksnature
8791 posts
#30 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Archimedes15 wrote:
For any finite set $S$, let $|S|$ denote the number of elements in $S$. FInd the number of ordered pairs $(A,B)$ such that $A$ and $B$ are (not necessarily distinct) subsets of $\{1,2,3,4,5\}$ that satisfy
$$|A| \cdot |B| = |A \cap B| \cdot |A \cup B|$$

typo in the first word of the second sentence help I'm catching typoes everywhere I go more and more I think there's something wrong with me
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by samrocksnature, Jan 23, 2022, 6:02 AM
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RunyangWang
192 posts
#31 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I bashed this problem. Got the correct answer 5 minutes before the end of the test (I did other problems first and came back to this one)
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daijobu
524 posts
#32 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Video Solution + review of set theory
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ChromeRaptor777
1890 posts
#33 • 2 Y
Y by ryanbear, cubres
Realize that $A \subseteq B.$ Do a bit of casework to get $211.$ Multiply by $2$ because $(A, B) \neq (B, A).$ We've counted $A=B$ twice here because it doesn't replicate; subtract by the number of times once ($2^5$ for correction), and we're done.
Took me a while to catch everything but the first two sentences, but solve.
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Shreyasharma
667 posts
#34 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
The main insight is that either $A$ or $B$ is a subset of the other. How I found this was letting $|A \cup B| = |A| + |B| - |A \cap B|$. Then denoting $|A| = a$, $|B| = b$ and $|A \cap B| = c$ we have,
\begin{align*}
ab &= c(a+b-c)\\
ab &= ac + bc - c^2\\
a(b-c) + c(c - b)&= 0\\
(a-c)(b-c) &= 0
\end{align*}and hence either $a = c$, $b = c$ or $a = b = c$. Now its just a simple counting problem.

We have two cases.

First if $a = b$ then we must have $A = B$. This can be done in $\sum \binom{5}{i} = 32$ ways.

Then assume that they are not equal and WLOG $B$ is a subset of $A$. Then do casework on the size of $a$.

If $a = 0$ then $b = 0$, we've already counted this.

If $a = 1$ we have $1$ choice for $b$ adding $5$ to our count.

If $a = 2$ we have $2^2 - 1 = 3$ choices for $b$ giving $\binom{5}{2} \cdot 3 = 30$ to our count.

If $a = 3$ we have $2^3 - 1 = 7$ choices for $b$ giving $\binom{5}{3} \cdot 7 = 70$ to our count.

If $a = 4$ we have $2^4 - 1 = 15$ choices for $b$ giving $\binom{5}{4} \cdot 15= 75$ to our count.

Finally if $a = 5$ we have $2^5 - 1 = 31$ choices for $b$ giving $31$ to our count.

Summing these cases up and multiplying by $2$ we have $422$ in this case.

Then adding our final count is $422 + 32 = \boxed{454}$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Shreyasharma, Jan 6, 2024, 12:17 AM
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Ritwin
155 posts
#35 • 2 Y
Y by LLL2019, cubres
Interesting that no one else has posted this, but I found the main claim in a slightly different way: after recalling $|A| + |B| = |{A \cup B}| + |{A \cap B}|$, because \[ |{A \cup B}| \geq |A|, |B| \geq |{A \cap B}| \]for inequality reasons we are forced to have $\{|A|, |B|\} = \{|{A \cup B}|, |{A \cap B}|\}$ meaning either $A \subseteq B$ or $B \subseteq A$.
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blueprimes
325 posts
#36 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
We will solve for the general case for subsets of $\{1, 2, \dots, n \}$ where $n$ is a positive integer.

Let $x = |A \cap B|, a = |A| - x, b = |B| - x$. The equation provided in the problem is equivalent to
$$(a + x)(b + x) = x(a + b + x) \implies ab = 0.$$Suppose $a = 0$. This implies that $(A \cap B) \subseteq A$. Observe that for every element in $\{1, 2, \dots, n \}$, it is either in $A$, the set $A$ when $(A \cap B)$ is removed, or in neither. Hence, we obtain $3^n$ possibilities. Similarly, $b = 0$ gives $3^n$. Now we subtract off the duplicates. If $a = b = 0$, $A = B$, so there are $2^n$ ways to choose the common subset. We obtain our final answer of $\boxed{2 \cdot 3^n - 2^n}$. (It can easily be checked that $n = 5$ yields $454$, the answer to the original problem.)
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ProMaskedVictor
43 posts
#37 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
$|A \cup B|=|A|+|B|-|A\cap B|$.
Using this and by manipulating the expression, we get that $|A|=|A \cap B|$ or$|B|=|A\cap B|$
For $|A|=|A \cap B|$, we get that $A \subseteq B$. So, number of pairs $=3^5$.
Similarly for the other part, there are $3^5$ pairs.
There are $2^5$ such pairs where $A=B$.
Hence, total number of ordered pairs $=2 \cdot 3^5 -2^5 = \boxed{454}$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by ProMaskedVictor, Aug 19, 2024, 1:26 PM
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lpieleanu
2875 posts
#38 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Solution
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