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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
Inequalities from SXTX
sqing   17
N 8 minutes ago by sqing
T702. Let $ a,b,c>0 $ and $ a+2b+3c=\sqrt{13}. $ Prove that $$ \sqrt{a^2+1} +2\sqrt{b^2+1} +3\sqrt{c^2+1} \geq 7$$S
T703. Let $ a,b $ be real numbers such that $ a+b\neq 0. $. Find the minimum of $ a^2+b^2+(\frac{1-ab}{a+b} )^2.$
T704. Let $ a,b,c>0 $ and $ a+b+c=3. $ Prove that $$ \frac{a^2+7}{(c+a)(a+b)} + \frac{b^2+7}{(a+b)(b+c)} +\frac{c^2+7}{(b+c)(c+a)}  \geq 6$$S
17 replies
1 viewing
sqing
Feb 18, 2025
sqing
8 minutes ago
Theory of Equations
P162008   3
N 35 minutes ago by P162008
Let $a,b,c,d$ and $e\in [-2,2]$ such that $\sum_{cyc} a = 0, \sum_{cyc} a^3 = 0, \sum_{cyc} a^5 = 10.$ Find the value of $\sum_{cyc} a^2.$
3 replies
P162008
Wednesday at 11:27 AM
P162008
35 minutes ago
Fun & Simple puzzle
Kscv   7
N 35 minutes ago by vanstraelen
$\angle DCA=45^{\circ},$ $\angle BDC=15^{\circ},$ $\overline{AC}=\overline{CB}$

$\angle ADC=?$
7 replies
Kscv
Apr 13, 2025
vanstraelen
35 minutes ago
A problem involving modulus from JEE coaching
AshAuktober   7
N 2 hours ago by Jhonyboy
Solve over $\mathbb{R}$:
$$|x-1|+|x+2| = 3x.$$
(There are two ways to do this, one being bashing out cases. Try to find the other.)
7 replies
AshAuktober
Apr 21, 2025
Jhonyboy
2 hours ago
No more topics!
AoPS Volume 2, Problem 262
Shiyul   12
N Apr 15, 2025 by bhavanal
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

12 replies
Shiyul
Apr 9, 2025
bhavanal
Apr 15, 2025
AoPS Volume 2, Problem 262
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G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
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Shiyul
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#1
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Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.
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bhavanal
40 posts
#2
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$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{k + 1}(x) = f(g_k(x))$

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_k$ is the average of the roots of $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_k$

....

So we know that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{k + 1}(x) = f(g_k(x))$

Let's just write some random stuff down!

From this info we can conclude that:

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{2}(x) = f(g_1(x))$ .. but wait, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$ ..

that means $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{2}(x) = f(f(x))$ .. and looking at

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{3}(x) = f(g_2(x))$ , we can see that there is a pattern to

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_n(x)$ = the repeated composition of f(x) n times.

So that means that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{19}(x) = f(f(f....(x)))))))))))))))))))$ , where the ... represents the continuation of the 19 f's. This simplifies our problem some.

Let f(x) =\[\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} f(x) = a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0 \]If we perform\[g_2\], we get\[a_n (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0)^n + a_{n - 1} (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0)^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0) + a_0\]
Whoa, that's messy. The problem talks about the average of roots, so we need to find the sum of roots of these big equations. We can use vietas to conclude that for a polynomial with in the form f(x) =\[a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} a^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0\], the sum is\[\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}\].. However, when the composition occurs, how will the sum change?

We look at a few smaller polynomials to observe this change. Click to reveal hidden text

So we see performing this composition, turn the original sum of the roots 2, to 4.

We see that this is true, since our original function could be factored into (x-1)(x-1) .. performing the composition, and disregarding all terms except the ones with the highest and second highest powers gives us\[((x-1)(x-1))^2\]= (x-1)(x-1)(x-1)(x-1) .. so it adds on another sets. So for whatever sum is there originally, gets multiplied by n, where n is the degree of the polynomial.

That means the sum of the roots of\[g_n(x)\]=\[\frac{-(a_{n-1}(n))}{a_n}\]that means the average of the roots is simply\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1}(n))}{a_n}}{n^n}\], which simplifies to:

\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\]..

Well what do we do now? Lets try the same method we did here to prove that\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\], to see how repeated composition of a single function affects the average of the roots.

Let's take the equation

\[q(x)\]=\[x^2 - 6x + 5\]..

the sum of the polynomial is 6 by using vietas, so the average is 3. performing\[q_2(x)\], and only taking in account the x^2, we get

\[(x^2 - 6x + 5)^2\].. multiplying this out, and taking only in account the x^4 and x^3 terms, we get\[x^4 - 12x^3 ..\].. we see that the sum of the roots of this is 12, but since there were originally 2 roots, and we squared this polynomial when performing composition, we got 4 roots instead since by the fundamental theorem of algebra a polynomial with nth degree has n roots.

That means 12/4 = 3. So the average of the roots of this new polynomial is still 3!

After plugging in the respetive coefficients into our equation:
\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\]we can verify that the average of the roots will stay the same despite repeated composition.

Thus, the average of the roots of $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_k$ is the same for all values of k.

Thus $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_{19}$ = $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_{89}$ = 89
just use the solution
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Shiyul
20 posts
#3 • 4 Y
Y by anduran, aidan0626, Sedro, ap246
Sir, I think you have the wrong problem.
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bhavanal
40 posts
#4
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who is sir. I am a girl
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Marrelia
138 posts
#5
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Shiyul wrote:
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

hint
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bhavanal
40 posts
#6
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um ok? ig
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Shiyul
20 posts
#7
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Alright, I will keep that in mind. Thank you!
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Alex-131
5366 posts
#8
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Shiyul wrote:
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

Try strong induction, i.e. base case is trivial. Suppose for n, and numbers less than n, that v_n = 2F_{2n-1}, and show that v_{n+1} = 2F_{2n+1}. This is easy to work with as we have a recursive form for v_{n+1}. But post 5 also works too.
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Shiyul
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#9
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Can you give me another hint? I have absolute no idea how I would do induction.
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Alex-131
5366 posts
#10 • 1 Y
Y by Shiyul
Shiyul wrote:
Can you give me another hint? I have absolute no idea how I would do induction.

read this: https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs103/cs103.1142/lectures/03/Small03.pdf

It seems like a good introduction to induction. Essentially
v_{n+1} = 3v_n - v_{n-1} = 6F_{2n-1} - 2F_{2n-3}. Now we want to show this is equal to 2F_{2n+3} so try finding an expression for 2F_{2n+3} that has F_{2n-1} and F_{2n-3} (use Fibonnaci recursion)
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Shiyul
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#11
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Sorry, I worded that wrong. I know what induction is, but I was just unsure on how to apply it here. Thanks for answering both questions, Alex-131!
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Shiyul
20 posts
#12
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Okay, I finished solving this problem. Thanks for all your help, Alex! Hope you have a great life
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bhavanal
40 posts
#13
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hope u have a great life wut on earth
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