Please, do NOT turn this forum into one where we yell at each other. If you think you failed, don't say so. Imagine a sixth grader that got a 95 and is very happy about it. Then he sees that a 123 is a fail. What will happen to that kid? He will feel down, he'll stop visiting the forums, and he'll be worse off because he stopped using AoPS as practice. Saying you failed with a high score means you are a perfectionist, and no one likes perfectionist. Please, just state your score and how you think you will do on AIME. That's it. End of story. Just think of that sixth grader when you post "I FAILED!".

Just say you are disappointed with your score.

You take the test the day after, but it doesn't count.

I 1000% agree with you. It's really arrogant/condescending, not modest, when people do that.

Okay tmathman, I'm sure we understand that we should not say this, as shown by numerous posts in past threads. Though I agree with your statement, I do not think that a topic is necessary for this - if it was so important, the moderators would have made a topic regarding this and stickied it.

As a sidenote, when I was a sixth grader and saw this type of behavior, it did not make me feel down - rather it gave me incentive to improve...though others may be different.

Hem hem...
Honestly when I was a sixth grader , and even when i was a 1st grader, a did not lack the intelligence to feel "down" so easily, and especially not to be pulled back from working hard. Obviously, if the top one percent was only a 115.5, 144 is not a terrible score.


i compare with other sixth graders, or i don't compare at all.

The argument "I would not have been upset by it" is not as relevant as one might think; different people are upset by different things, but of course we should pay attention to our surroundings when posting stuff on the Internet. You're not the only reason reading or judging your posts, and you shouldn't be the only one concerned about them.

When you post on the forum, what are you really trying to do? What are you trying to achieve when you say "you failed", etc. If you're trying to convey how disappointed you were (even though, with all due respect, I doubt a lot of the users who say they "failed" are as disappointed as they claim), there are more tactful ways to do it that don't come across as pure petulance. Are you trying to look smarter? Then do that, without trying to make other people look less smart.

More generally, I just don't see the need for all the negativity. A lot of us are extremely lucky to have the opportunity to take the AMC 10/12. There are a lot of elements about the AMC 10/12A and competition in general that are amazing and motivating, and some negative elements that take away from what people should learn. Try to enhance the positives by not comparing each other so much.

I posted a more succinct and slightly more scathing version of tjmathman's request in another thread. I'm glad a few people decided to ponder this a bit, although I do wish people had read my original post before this ignited a forum firestorm in the 10A thread.

The "I FAILED" posts had a pretty drastic effect on me. Up until I found math competitions in seventh grade, I was revered as a genius within my school, and I did not know anything different. I inevitably developed a bit of an ego.

When I was in seventh grade, I went to State MC. I got a 19 on the epic 2012 test, enough for top 25% in Florida, and I was reasonably happy. I went to AoPS to share my score, thinking that I would stack up in the middle.

Unfortunately, I was greeted by very few people who scored as low as me, and mostly people who scored in the 30s. And they said that they failed. I thought that if these people had failed, I must have REALLY failed, and I, being very twisted, quickly became very down on myself, and always went around saying that I am really bad at math. This went on until my 2013 scores came in.

Despite the negative effects this had on me, there was the positive effect of making me less egotistical. Even if the "I FAILED"'s have different negative effects on others, they are self-perpetuating, as they create a culture of saying things like that to sound smart. Maybe AoPS would be better if people discussed scores without them...?

Well, that was totally unnecessary after what AwesomeToad said.

^ Agreed.
In fact, seeing all these "I failed" posts should motivate
everyone to work harder and meet their goals. I'm not saying
saying "I failed, I got a 145.5" is a polite thing to do; it definitely isn't. But if someone does,
use it to your advantage and motivate yourself to do better.

I speak from experience, and good luck to everyone on the B tests!

Your post makes me think that maybe the "I FAILED" posts are better than I thought they were before, because without them, maybe I would have settled for less, but then, while some might feel that effect, others might feel discouraged.

Take your pick.

I was in almost the exact same situation, except all the "I failed" posts motivated me.

I think that these posts are definitely not considerate of others, but, for that specific user, it might have been a true fail. I think we should try to remember that AoPS is pretty much where all the smart math kids live. A "failure" on AoPS is when you can't ace the final exam for your math class before the year starts. It's not really a failure at all, we're just all overachievers. Which is fine.

The bottom line is that if you think you did well, than you did. You're on AoPS. You're already smarter than most kids. It's fine if you don't stack up against other AoPSers, because they're all math prodigies too. They just have a little more practice. Go catch up. You can do it.

Those posts did motivate me. I simply did not think of that when I first made that post, because maybe I would have been motivated anyway.

If you absolutely must post your score, don't post your grade or else someone older than you who did worse will feel bad.

The above isn't necessary. Being a youngster with a good score isn't bad; the condescending tone attached to many posts referenced is.

Thank you AT for helping my case. I really do think it is important the users stop that.

An 8th grader who got 100 would probably feel worse if a 6th grader said I failed when he/she got 120 than if he/she was in 10th grade.

Don't forget a few things:
a) People like to say things about themselves. Social media is so popular because of this one reason. Wether they're bored, trying to make conversation (though saying "I failed" is not one of the best ways to do so), or what, people like to talk. We can't help it, we're social creatures. It's not that we're TRYING to be condescending, it could just be that we're bored, and surfing the AoPS forums, and find some forum on AMC 10/12. We say to ourselves, "hmm, what could I do to occupy myself? Oh, maybe I could raise some excitement on this forum topic by saying 'Hi everyone, I failed the AMC 10 with a score of blobbidy blob blob blob.' It could be that we want to make ourselves feel better because we know that a lot of people did better than us, so why not see what other people got, because we know that someone must have gotten lower, and that person who got lower might just post 'Hey, that's a really good score (at least in comparison to mine)!' And then we might think, "Hmm, people are saying I did really well! Yay that makes me feel better!"

b) People like to brag about their strong points. Now, this isn't with all cases, as there are some people that post "I failed" that fall into the first reason, or some other reason. Now let's face it, who DOESN'T like to feel good? Who doesn't like to feel that they're superior to some people? Many people post "I failed" even though they don't think they did. They just want to convince themselves that they're better than they really are.

Edit: WHOOO STEREOTYPICAL POST COUNT UPDATE 200 POSTS
Edit: People also put their post count and goals in their signatures for these reasons

Some people try to be condescending. Plus, people trolling around don't help the forum. And, you should know that whatever score you said you failed about (unless it is less than 60) is probably either a good score for you, or a good score relative to others.

It is possible to have different degrees of "failure", but it is a rather sensitive topic. I ask some people refrain from posting those posts, especially in AoPS forum, where literally everybody can see your post. Also, the purpose of this forum is to discuss about math, not about your grades and failures.

Hm this post is relevant as USA(J)MO scores are soon to come out and thanks to an easier AMC10 many kids who weren't really great at the hard math made JMO and I don't doubt there may be many I FAILED instances coming up.

In reality sorry for the revive. But I spent about half an hour to an hour analyzing the posts to the best of my crappy ability and would like to add stuff because it wasted a lot of homework time and it's also where v_enhance made his 2500th post (but seriously dude good job for making IMO. I'll try to carry on the math legacy of our first names)

It seems like both topics of saying "I failed" and "goal setting" can easily be seen through with the powers of Asian parents.

First let me address the I failed part since it's easier

There are the obvious annoying "I failed" posts (that I have made). One example is the "I want to fit in so I'll make you guys think that I can do better than I did that time" such as last year when I got a 4 on the AIME and I was siked that I made the AIME but saw all the pro scores on the AMC forum so I wrote At that point getting into the AIME was crazy enough for me, but I couldn't resist the feeling to just want to fit in with all of you smartie pants. Don't make those types of "I failed" posts.

Then there are the "PITY ME CUZ I WANT SYMPATHY" posts such as when I wrote Ok, so that happened. What do you want to do by posting something like that? Have people say "Oh darn efang I'm sorry that happened?" (oops that actually did happen) and get the condolences of random AoPS users? Part of me thinks that I wanted to make people feel bad the way I felt bad, to drag them down because I felt down. So especially for you guys that are about to complain about whatever happened on the MO's, please don't. *

Now for the final category, let me write out some of my thoughts, namely thoughts that sprouted from my Chinese Mom:

Think about how long your parents (especially you Asian kids) have been proud about your acheivments. Maybe they'll brag to their other Asian friends (namely Chinese moms) but they won't so much talk too much about it around you. It's already like old business right? I feel like it's because they expect you to push ahead.

Stereotypically, certain races of people leaves off with a "yes that's good enough" sort of feeling. Have you watched any Disney movies or cheesy teen movies lately? They expect that reaching a certain point in life will be like "Hell yeah. Movies over. This life is complete. Everything is set" Then it rolls to the credits with some random epilogue of how the high school sweethearts made 2 healthy babies and how the bully of the movie died prematurely because of a freak accident involving a toilet, a clogged drain pipe, and taco bell.

What my mom taught me is different. Just kidding I taught it to myself through my mothers muddled explaining and also by watching loads of anime. But nonetheless, she taught me that change was going to happen. That nothing in life was set and we're just going to have to keep changing and moving forward. To stop progressing in life, to stop moving forward, to stop hoping for a new future and to stop struggling for one and just being "there" is pretty much to die. And she also taught me that barely anything works out the way you want it too, but what's the point of complaining about it rather than making the best that you can out of it?

And that's what brings me to my final type of I failed posts, the "I truly failed. I studied for all my life and I couldn't do it, couldn't get there. I'm just done, man, I'm done. No more chances, it's useless anyways. I'm finished, can't even stress how much done I am right now."

And it's here that I disagree with the OP. I believe that it's feelings like these people just can't coop up inside. I used to have some anger management issues (given it was self-diagnosed but I could get so angry pretty damn fast) and I know that terrible feeling when you just have something in you and you're just like "WTF WORLD. WHY DO YOU DO THIS. IS THE UNIVERSE AGAINST ME. WHY DID MY MOM TAKE THE LAST FREAKING MOZERELLA STICK!!!!!????"

Of course all of you on AoPS are way more sane than that, but we're all human and we all must face anger one way or another, no matter how intense. And let me tell you it's a bad idea to keep those cooped up. And please, please don't keep those feelings cooped up. If you don't trust this website too well, share your struggle with your friends and family. Hell, you can breakdown and cry in front of them but let it out and don't let it haunt the rest of your life. Do what the weird Chinese boy on the internet told you to do. Find a way to move on, be it on AoPS, your friends, family, punching your pillow, or realizing the meaning of life.

The same applies to if you succeed after working so hard for so long. If that's the case, celebrating is perfectly fine. Don't be a jerk about it and mock other people and don't go posting it all over the AoPS forums but rather do something fun with your real-life friends or family. Keep this accomplishment in mind as a reminder of something great you achieved and go on in life to achieve even more.

*easily can be confused with the last type of "I failed" posts. But I think you can distinguish the times that you're looking for pity and the times you're just plain angry.

Now goal setting:

Ehh I got nothing to say. The failure part took me like an hour or 2 to think up and type up and it still sounds weird and I'll probably edit it sometime.

Now @Zytec-D, the purpose of these forums was to discuss the competitions and the competitions include grades and failures. Olympiad sections don't contain any complaining and all problem-solving as they're pure purpose is for problem solving. Plus AMC is so big lots of kids freak out about it and letting stuff out on a blog wouldn't hurt anybody.

Oops wrote too much. Good job if you read through everything. Again, sorry for revive.

^There are some pretty huge logical holes in your attempt to discredit various definitions of race. For example, due to the fact that the human population is not in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium and different environmental conditions around the globe, the induction you speak of when you talk about ethnicity is not straightforward at all. You have to consider allele frequencies varying over generations and the progressive development and separation of cultures, making the induction argument clearly ridiculous without bringing extraordinarily powerful tools from the Social Sciences, in which case using ethnicity as a component of race is not so ridiculous. This isn't really the place to have these arguments, but I recommend intensive (aka PhD level) study of anthropology before you can intelligently comment on the whole issue of defining race.

^People on math sites have PhD's in anthropology.

You guys do realize that the "race" part of his post was a very minor side thing...

I agree, we should not say "I failed". But some of you are taking this a bit too far...

First of all, some of you are just ranting about how awful people who say "I failed" are. But most people don't claim they failed to try and put other people down (though some do). They genuinely feel disappointed with their scores. Unfortunately, saying "I failed" has a side effect of sometimes ruining others' self-esteem; this is why I do not advocate saying this. But doesn't this invective aimed at "90%" of everyone do the same thing? And this time, it deliberately hurts.

Also, if I were a 6th grader who got a 95 and I heard others saying they failed with a 135 or so, I wouldn't care. These people are likely high schoolers (or I'll just think they are), and if I work hard enough, I can certainly get that high by the time I reach high school.

When I was in 6th grade (my first year trying out competition math), I was proud with how I did in math competitions, and there were certainly people doing better who said that they failed. So what? These students were older than I was, or had more experience, or had done more math than I have. I still had many years to catch up with them.

There's nothing wrong thinking you failed. Maybe you got a 21 on USAMO and you're very disappointed, or you qualified for USAMO and you are very happy. But don't say out loud that you failed with a 21 (actually, that's 50%<60%, so you could call that "failing" ). But even worse, please don't write a whole bunch of invective about how people who say "I failed" are stupid "degenerates". I would much rather have someone who is a lot better than me say that he/she failed than be called names like that.

I think this is turning into a Round Table discussion by the length of posts and lower post ratings (except efang's post) so we should probably get back on topic

Unfortunately, I think this topic will come up year after year, with the same arguments, the same pros and cons, the same everything.

And I am going to tie back into my OP. I do agree with efang that sometimes we do feel like just letting it out. But try not to let it out. If you do have to, do it in one post, please? It is not necessary to clog the forum with posts looking for people to pity you, for sympathy. Talk to your parents, your math coach, good friends, etc. about it. People who care about you will help you find out just exactly why what happened happened. Then, you'll feel a whole lot better after that chat. And the more chats you have, the better you'll feel. For example: I scored a 7 on the AIME. A decent score. Yet my AMC 10 score was 108. I was frustrated because I wanted to get to JMO, but after some chats, I felt a whole lot better about it. (I qualified via the 12 for those of you who are wondering how I took the AIME.)

And then, of course, there are always the trolls that have amazing scores that I know they must be happy with. Yet they go around the forum saying, Hey look! I got a 14 on the AIME! I'm such a fail!. And Hey! I got a 38 on USAMO! I failed the test SOOOOO badly... We must deal with these people, because as we are not mods, there is nothing we can do about it.


I know this post will probably be liked by many people, but it will also be disliked by many people. If you are against what I'm saying and would rate my post anything less than a 3, please PM me. We can talk a bit about your views and my views, and maybe we can civilly come to an argument, as usually happens when both parties are civil.

EDIT: Lol. No PMs, yet a 2.5 rating.