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k a March Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Mar 2, 2025
March is the month for State MATHCOUNTS competitions! Kudos to everyone who participated in their local chapter competitions and best of luck to all going to State! Join us on March 11th for a Math Jam devoted to our favorite Chapter competition problems! Are you interested in training for MATHCOUNTS? Be sure to check out our AMC 8/MATHCOUNTS Basics and Advanced courses.

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Do you have plans this summer? There are so many options to fit your schedule and goals whether attending a summer camp or taking online classes, it can be a great break from the routine of the school year. Check out our summer courses at AoPS Online, or if you want a math or language arts class that doesn’t have homework, but is an enriching summer experience, our AoPS Virtual Campus summer camps may be just the ticket! We are expanding our locations for our AoPS Academies across the country with 15 locations so far and new campuses opening in Saratoga CA, Johns Creek GA, and the Upper West Side NY. Check out this page for summer camp information.

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]March 5th (Wednesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, HCSSiM Math Jam 2025. Amber Verser, Assistant Director of the Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics, will host an information session about HCSSiM, a summer program for high school students.
[*]March 6th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar on Math Competitions from elementary through high school. Join us for an enlightening session that demystifies the world of math competitions and helps you make informed decisions about your contest journey.
[*]March 11th (Tuesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MATHCOUNTS Chapter Discussion MATH JAM. AoPS instructors will discuss some of their favorite problems from the MATHCOUNTS Chapter Competition. All are welcome!
[*]March 13th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar about Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus. Transform your summer into an unforgettable learning adventure! From elementary through high school, we offer dynamic summer camps featuring topics in mathematics, language arts, and competition preparation - all designed to fit your schedule and ignite your passion for learning.[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Mar 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
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What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
MC nationals 2023 sprint Q28
Soupboy0   4
N a minute ago by allisok100
What common fraction is equivalent to the expression shown?

$\frac{\frac{1}{2021 \cdot 2022} + \frac{2}{2019  \cdot 2021} + \frac{3}{2017 \cdot 2020} + ... + \frac{1010}{3 \cdot 1013} + \frac{1011}{1 \cdot 1012}}{\frac{2022}{1011}+\frac{2022}{1010}+\frac{2022}{1009}+...+\frac{2022}{2}+\frac{2022}{1}}$?

can someone please help me
4 replies
Soupboy0
Yesterday at 9:46 PM
allisok100
a minute ago
Reflections
junlongsun   5
N 28 minutes ago by junlongsun
2024 State S25:
A beetle starts at the point with coordinates (8, 5), travels to a point on the line
y = 2, then to some point on the line y = x, and then finally travels to the point
with coordinates (5, 4). One possible path that the beetle might follow is shown.
What is the length of the shortest possible path
that the beetle could take? Express your answer
in simplest radical form

I've heard people talking about reflecting over y=x and y=2, how does that work?
5 replies
junlongsun
2 hours ago
junlongsun
28 minutes ago
Geometric problem
Notsurefornoworever   0
an hour ago
Let ABC be a right triangle with a right angle BCA. Let CD be the altitude from vertex C to AB. Prove that the distances from the point D to the legs is proportional to the lengths of the legs.
0 replies
Notsurefornoworever
an hour ago
0 replies
k mathcounts advice pls
muuheng   3
N 2 hours ago by aoh11
hi i have around 9 days until my state round competition, and my chapter score was 32. My state isn't that competitive, so i think the cutoff for nats last year was like 31, and i scored second in my chapter but i'm from a less competitive chapter. I think tenth place this year for the most competitive chapter in my state got 34? (as well as 11th thru maybe 20th place). So can anyone whose like orz give me like advice on how to lock in 9 days so maybe i can make it to state top 10 or maybe even nationals (i'm only hoping for top 10 but any help is appreciated :love: ). also anyone wanna guess my state for fun. and maybe if you've taken the state yet tell me how it went pretty pls
3 replies
muuheng
Today at 5:45 AM
aoh11
2 hours ago
My MATHCOUNTS journey + I need advice
nitride   22
N 2 hours ago by aoh11
So I don't really care if I dox myself but I went to one of the single worst chapters in all of Florida, the Indian river chapter(even the runner of mathcounts states was sayin we would lose to osprey in states). I don't exactly know what my score is, but all I know is that I got 1st place sprint and chapter but then sold CD. If I had to guess, my score was around the 30-37 range. I also mocked at around a 70 on amc 10. My questions are:
1.
What are my chances of me getting nats qual
2.
Should I study the day before the competition
22 replies
nitride
Today at 1:36 AM
aoh11
2 hours ago
Calculator
junlongsun   18
N 2 hours ago by fruitmonster97
I have a Casio FX-9750GIII

I can't seem to get the equation solver to work, I'm mainly afraid of something similar to Chapter T8 appearing on states.

$y^2=1025-40x$
$x^2=1025-50y$

Does anyone with the model know how to get the calculator to solve the equation above?

Thanks
18 replies
junlongsun
Today at 2:37 AM
fruitmonster97
2 hours ago
ohio mathcounts state
Owinner   11
N 2 hours ago by bjump
what is the cutoff for cdr for ohio? Is ohio a competitve state?
11 replies
Owinner
Tuesday at 10:52 PM
bjump
2 hours ago
Camp Conway acceptance
fossasor   10
N 2 hours ago by jb2015007
Hello! I've just been accepted into Camp Conway, but I'm not sure how popular this camp actually is, given that it's new. Has anyone else applied/has been accepted/is going? (I'm trying to figure out to what degree this acceptance was just lack of qualified applicants, so I can better predict my chances of getting into my preferred math camp.)
10 replies
fossasor
Feb 20, 2025
jb2015007
2 hours ago
AMC 8 scores
megahertz13   8
N 2 hours ago by HenryJW
$\begin{tabular}{c|c|c|c|c|c|c|c|c}Username & Grade & AMC 8 \\ \hline
megahertz13 & 3 & 15 \
\end{tabular}$
8 replies
megahertz13
Apr 27, 2022
HenryJW
2 hours ago
9 AMC 8 Scores
ChromeRaptor777   87
N 3 hours ago by Yolandayu
As far as I'm certain, I think all AMC8 scores are already out. Vote above.
87 replies
ChromeRaptor777
Apr 1, 2022
Yolandayu
3 hours ago
Mathcounts 2012
junlongsun   7
N 3 hours ago by mpcnotnpc
Source 2012 S29:

For how many two-element subsets {a, b} of the set {1, 2, 3, . . . , 36} is the product ab a perfect square?

Does anyone have a quick solution?
7 replies
junlongsun
Today at 2:07 AM
mpcnotnpc
3 hours ago
AMC8 Honor Roll out??
LittleBacat   77
N Today at 11:33 AM by GYRAD0S
I searched up the honor roll number today for Amc8 2025, and it says that (in the AoPS WIKI), https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AMC_historical_results?srsltid=AfmBOoopyoLrmVTtrMLZRTlATAWrzQzjFDBrN-rg_zhAloy8H5YkhjHb)
-Honor Roll: 19
-Average: 11.74
-Top 2.5: 21
-Distinguished Honor Roll: 23.
I think this is correct! So like idk what did y'all get?
77 replies
LittleBacat
Feb 25, 2025
GYRAD0S
Today at 11:33 AM
PLS help me come up with a faster solution to this problem!
ilikemath247365   7
N Today at 4:41 AM by jkim0656
2023 National Sprint Problem 30

Let $M = \frac{9^{40,000}}{9^{200} - 2}$. If $M$ is rounded to the nearest integer and then divided by $100$, what is the remainder?
7 replies
ilikemath247365
Today at 4:18 AM
jkim0656
Today at 4:41 AM
AOPS course questions
GlitchyBoy   5
N Today at 4:11 AM by aoh11
Hi Aops,
I was wondering if an intro to algebra book from Aops is needed to take the intro to algebra b course
And would it be better to buy the book and just do it myself or take a course on AOPS for intro to algebra b?
I am aiming for aime and nats next year so what should I do?
is intro to algebra b, intro to c&p, and amc10 course enough or not?
and do intro to algebra b and intro to c&p help with mathcounts and AMC?
thank you!
5 replies
GlitchyBoy
Yesterday at 8:45 PM
aoh11
Today at 4:11 AM
k another mathcounts person
Oshawoot   12
N Yesterday at 10:21 PM by elizhang101412
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?
12 replies
Oshawoot
Yesterday at 8:27 PM
elizhang101412
Yesterday at 10:21 PM
another mathcounts person
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
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Oshawoot
83 posts
#1
Y by
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?
Z Y
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Nioronean
82 posts
#2
Y by
Oshawoot wrote:
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?

I think anyone that can get above 40 on chapter has a shot at nationals in any state, you just have to be lucky and not silly
Z Y
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aoh11
157 posts
#3
Y by
yes florida is not competitive so you have a 100% chance of making it
Z Y
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sadas123
911 posts
#4
Y by
Nioronean wrote:
Oshawoot wrote:
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?

I think anyone that can get above 40 on chapter has a shot at nationals in any state, you just have to be lucky and not silly

That's not always the case because this year it is less competitive I am also in Florida but I know many people in my chapter that got 40+ and my chapter is one of the ok chapters in Florida hahahaha :rotfl: here is the top 5 scores 39-39-40-41-41 so I mean it just matters if you practice enough.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by sadas123, Yesterday at 8:35 PM
Z Y
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aoh11
157 posts
#5
Y by
florida is so good because they got first
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maxamc
438 posts
#6
Y by
aoh11 wrote:
florida is so good because they got first

fake news
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Cool12345678
8 posts
#7
Y by
im also in florida!!!
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sadas123
911 posts
#8
Y by
maxamc wrote:
aoh11 wrote:
florida is so good because they got first

fake news

Actually Benjamin Jiang got first so technically Florida brought back the win last year.
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hashbrown2009
96 posts
#9
Y by
Oshawoot wrote:
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?

depends, 30%-60%
40 on chapter is good, don't silly on state
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hashbrown2009
96 posts
#10
Y by
aoh11 wrote:
florida is so good because they got first

Florida didn't even get top 3 in state rankings
If your talking about individual, your right though
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juicetin.kim
2478 posts
#11
Y by
aoh11 wrote:
yes florida is not competitive so you have a 100% chance of making it

:eyes:
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alex_xie
92 posts
#12
Y by
Nioronean wrote:
Oshawoot wrote:
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?

I think anyone that can get above 40 on chapter has a shot at nationals in any state, you just have to be lucky and not silly

aint no way not in WA
40=18th in chapter
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elizhang101412
1180 posts
#13
Y by
Nioronean wrote:
Oshawoot wrote:
another person asking their chances of nats
im in florida, got 26 sprint and 14 target at chapter, 3rd in countdown
what are my chances of nats?

I think anyone that can get above 40 on chapter has a shot at nationals in any state, you just have to be lucky and not silly

i got 39(sillied a target which would have been 41) and i've never mocked a state score that would qual for any t1 in recent years
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