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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
Spring is in full swing and summer is right around the corner, what are your plans? At AoPS Online our schedule has new classes starting now through July, so be sure to keep your skills sharp and be prepared for the Fall school year! Check out the schedule of upcoming classes below.

WOOT early bird pricing is in effect, don’t miss out! If you took MathWOOT Level 2 last year, no worries, it is all new problems this year! Our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training program is for high school level competitors. AoPS designed these courses to help our top students get the deep focus they need to succeed in their specific competition goals. Check out the details at this link for all our WOOT programs in math, computer science, chemistry, and physics.

Looking for summer camps in math and language arts? Be sure to check out the video-based summer camps offered at the Virtual Campus that are 2- to 4-weeks in duration. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
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April 9th (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learn about Video-based Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus
[*]April 10th (Math Jam), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MathILy and MathILy-Er Math Jam: Multibackwards Numbers
[*]April 22nd (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Competitive Programming at AoPS (USACO).[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Prove that the number of $a$ is o(p)
Seungjun_Lee   13
N 22 minutes ago by ihategeo_1969
Source: 2024 FKMO P6
Prove that there exists a positive integer $K$ that satisfies the following condition.

Condition: For any prime $p > K$, the number of positive integers $a \le p$ that $p^2 \mid a^{p-1} - 1$ is less than $\frac{p}{2^{2024}}$
13 replies
Seungjun_Lee
Mar 24, 2024
ihategeo_1969
22 minutes ago
Congruence related perimeter
egxa   4
N 38 minutes ago by Geometrineq
Source: All Russian 2025 9.8 and 10.8
On the sides of triangle \( ABC \), points \( D_1, D_2, E_1, E_2, F_1, F_2 \) are chosen such that when going around the triangle, the points occur in the order \( A, F_1, F_2, B, D_1, D_2, C, E_1, E_2 \). It is given that
\[
AD_1 = AD_2 = BE_1 = BE_2 = CF_1 = CF_2.
\]Prove that the perimeters of the triangles formed by the lines \( AD_1, BE_1, CF_1 \) and \( AD_2, BE_2, CF_2 \) are equal.
4 replies
egxa
Apr 18, 2025
Geometrineq
38 minutes ago
Killer NT that nobody solved (also my hardest NT ever created)
mshtand1   8
N 38 minutes ago by mshtand1
Source: Ukraine IMO 2025 TST P8
A positive integer number \( a \) is chosen. Prove that there exists a prime number that divides infinitely many terms of the sequence \( \{b_k\}_{k=1}^{\infty} \), where
\[
b_k = a^{k^k} \cdot 2^{2^k - k} + 1.
\]
Proposed by Arsenii Nikolaev and Mykhailo Shtandenko
8 replies
mshtand1
Apr 19, 2025
mshtand1
38 minutes ago
Value of the sum
fermion13pi   1
N an hour ago by RagvaloD
Source: Australia
Calculate the value of the sum

\sum_{k=1}^{9999999} \frac{1}{(k+1)^{3/2} + (k^2-1)^{1/3} + (k-1)^{2/3}}.
1 reply
fermion13pi
5 hours ago
RagvaloD
an hour ago
Tangent Circles problems
ReticulatedPython   4
N Mar 15, 2025 by jb2015007
Problem 1:

Three circles with radius $r$ are tangent to each other and internally tangent to a circle with radius $s.$ Find $\frac{r}{s}.$

Problem 2:

A circle with radius $r$ is centered at the centroid of an equilateral triangle with side length $s.$ Three other circles with radius $r$ are internally tangent to exactly two sides of the equilateral triangle, and to the circle at the centroid of the equilateral triangle. Find $\frac{r}{s}.$
4 replies
ReticulatedPython
Mar 14, 2025
jb2015007
Mar 15, 2025
Mock Mathcounts Exam, anyone?
luppleAOPS   28
N Mar 15, 2025 by imtiyas1
I am currently in the process of making a Mock Mathcounts Sprint and Target Examination. The difficulty is about National difficulty, if not more difficult. PM if you are interested, and I will PM (and post) when my rounds are completed and for more details. PLEASE be patient, as it may take a while for me to finish. :D

But if you are interesting please PM and/or (but at least PM me to officially sign up) if you are interested.

Also note that I may not even finish it.

*Also you may need Word 2007 or higher to view some of the problems

*CHECK MY REVISED SAMPLE PROBLEMS OUT (if you scroll down)
28 replies
luppleAOPS
Mar 1, 2011
imtiyas1
Mar 15, 2025
2000th post!
evt917   35
N Mar 10, 2025 by eddie.li
Wow I can't believe I'm at 2000 posts already! I guess this also celebrates my (late) 3 year anniversary on AoPS!

um i guess i share my story (most problems are written by me)

1st grade -- i forgot ok

2nd grade -- i was at public school like the regular kids, there i started loving basketball and i was already working on prealgebra level stuff example problem

3rd grade -- started aops i skipped to calculus anyway so here i was still in public school and I started algebra a, but made no progress so my parents asked me if I want to homeschool (lucky they didn't force me), and i said yes example problem

4th grade -- Finished intro to programming with python, got 13 on amc 8 (skull), finished all intro courses except intro to number theory. i was shaky on lots of concepts and i had to do a review (by myself with the aops books) sometimes. example problem

5th grade -- finished intermediate programming with python but somehow failed usaco (the score shall be undisclosed), i started learning some basic C++, and finished all intro courses and im doing intermediate algebra and intermediate number theory now :D . I got 21 on amc 8 (improvement but no dhr) and 72 on amc 10a (buh). oh and by the way I'm still playing basketball in my rec league :) example problem

for more example problems go to my two mock amc 8's and keep an eye on my other mock im about to create!

anyway thanks aops for 2000 posts it helped me learn so much


p.s. lots of information i didn't share but this is the general idea (also pls upvote! if i reach 10 upvotes i will create something special here)
35 replies
evt917
Feb 24, 2025
eddie.li
Mar 10, 2025
Rgb ratios
mnopstuv5000   1
N Feb 13, 2025 by user538
What are the ratios 2 : 7 and 1 : 2 for Cascading Style Sheet RGB " 256 exponent 3 " ?
1 reply
mnopstuv5000
Mar 19, 2021
user538
Feb 13, 2025
Challenging Exercise About Ratios
CoolBeans153   3
N Feb 7, 2025 by CoolBeans153

Note: Please hide solutions. I would like to not see the solution accidentally.

This is exercise 6.1.5. in the Introduction to Algebra book:
[quote=Exercise 6.1.5. in the Introduction to Algebra Book]Alice changes size several times. The ratio of her original height to her second height is 24:5. The ratio of her second height to her third height is 1:12. The ratio of her original height to her fourth height is 16:1. The tallest of these four heights is 10 feet. What is her shortest height? (Source: MATHCOUNTS)[/quote]

I began by organizing the information. Then I tried to turn it all into one ratio, but I had trouble with 24 and 16. Now that I am writing about that, I don't think that has anything to do with one ratio or three. I don't know how to find, however, the largest height. The larger height is the larger number, right? Or am I wrong? So her original height was larger than her second height, if that was a correct thought process.

My question is: Is the larger number the larger height? Please, just answer that for now. You can solve it, but please hide solutions. With an answer to that, I would be able to solve the rest. Thank you!
3 replies
CoolBeans153
Jan 27, 2025
CoolBeans153
Feb 7, 2025
Inscribed volume of ANY shape
Spacepandamath13   5
N Jan 11, 2025 by sadas123
I was looking through mathcounts problems and I came across this problem and it goes like this:
A cylinder whose height is 3 times its radius is inscribed in a cone whose height
is 6 times its radius. What fraction of the cone’s volume lies inside the cylinder?
Express your answer as a common fraction.

and I wondered if you can turn a problem such as this into a 2d shape and then solve for area ratios than convert it back but I can't find the ratio to convert it back.
5 replies
Spacepandamath13
Jan 9, 2025
sadas123
Jan 11, 2025
3 angles in ratio 6:7:8 (1992 Romanian District grade VI P4)
parmenides51   4
N Jan 3, 2025 by mathathon_wgg
A triangle has the measures of the angles proportional to the numbers $6, 7, 8$. Show that the triangle has an angle with the measure of $60^o$.
4 replies
parmenides51
Sep 8, 2024
mathathon_wgg
Jan 3, 2025
math problems
fruitmonster97   9
N Dec 23, 2024 by Amkan2022
If the average of the set $5,x,10,10,10,10$ is $x,$ what is the value of $x$?

Compute the two-digit base $10$ number $n$ such that $n_9+n_7=n_{20}.$

William is ordering bottles. There are eight colors of bottles: White, Red, Blue, Green, Orange, Purple, Yellow, and Charteruse. What is the probability he puts the red bottle first and the white bottle last?

A paper towel roll is a cylinder with another cylinder in the middle cut out. Trying to save money, a CEO of a paper towel company makes the inside radius increase by $10\%.$ He is then sued, and forced to lower the price to match the original ratio of paper towel to cost. By what percentage does he lower the cost?

Eleven elves are making christmas presents. Each makes the same number of presents, and the sum of the digits of the total number of presents is $11.$ Also, after two elves steal all of the presents they made, the remaining number of presents ends in $5.$ How many presents did the two steal?

9 replies
fruitmonster97
Dec 23, 2024
Amkan2022
Dec 23, 2024
equation with ratio
anduran   3
N Nov 2, 2024 by LightningZ
Let $x,y$ be real numbers satisfying
$$x^3-4x^2y-25xy^2+100y^3=0.$$Find the minimum value of $\left|\frac{x}{y}\right|.$
3 replies
anduran
Nov 2, 2024
LightningZ
Nov 2, 2024
Geometry problem
eagle2010   2
N Sep 29, 2024 by eagle2010
Another window has a design which is shown below. The whole window is a square; the
central section is made of plain glass; the outer section is coloured. The curved lines are
arcs of circles of the same radius as the side length of the square and centred on its
corners. What is the ratio of coloured to plain glass in the whole window? Give your
answer in the form 1 : ?, where ? is a decimal correct to 3 sf.
2 replies
eagle2010
Sep 22, 2024
eagle2010
Sep 29, 2024
(MKT) is tangent to (ABC)
parmenides51   1
N Apr 29, 2022 by rafaello
Source: 2021 Saudi Arabia Training Lists p17 https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c2758131_2021_saudi_arabia_training_tests
Let $ABC$ be an acute, non-isosceles triangle with circumcenter $O$. Tangent lines to $(O)$ at $B,C$ meet at $T$. A line passes through $T$ cuts segments $AB$ at $D$ and cuts ray $CA$ at $E$. Take $M$ as midpoint of $DE$ and suppose that $MA$ cuts $(O)$ again at $K$. Prove that $(MKT)$ is tangent to $(O)$.
1 reply
parmenides51
Jan 6, 2022
rafaello
Apr 29, 2022
(MKT) is tangent to (ABC)
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: 2021 Saudi Arabia Training Lists p17 https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c2758131_2021_saudi_arabia_training_tests
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parmenides51
30632 posts
#1 • 1 Y
Y by ImSh95
Let $ABC$ be an acute, non-isosceles triangle with circumcenter $O$. Tangent lines to $(O)$ at $B,C$ meet at $T$. A line passes through $T$ cuts segments $AB$ at $D$ and cuts ray $CA$ at $E$. Take $M$ as midpoint of $DE$ and suppose that $MA$ cuts $(O)$ again at $K$. Prove that $(MKT)$ is tangent to $(O)$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by parmenides51, Jan 6, 2022, 10:03 AM
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rafaello
1079 posts
#2 • 4 Y
Y by DrYouKnowWho, PRMOisTheHardestExam, ImSh95, nguyenducmanh2705
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