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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
Spring is in full swing and summer is right around the corner, what are your plans? At AoPS Online our schedule has new classes starting now through July, so be sure to keep your skills sharp and be prepared for the Fall school year! Check out the schedule of upcoming classes below.

WOOT early bird pricing is in effect, don’t miss out! If you took MathWOOT Level 2 last year, no worries, it is all new problems this year! Our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training program is for high school level competitors. AoPS designed these courses to help our top students get the deep focus they need to succeed in their specific competition goals. Check out the details at this link for all our WOOT programs in math, computer science, chemistry, and physics.

Looking for summer camps in math and language arts? Be sure to check out the video-based summer camps offered at the Virtual Campus that are 2- to 4-weeks in duration. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]April 3rd (Webinar), 4pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learning with AoPS: Perspectives from a Parent, Math Camp Instructor, and University Professor
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April 9th (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learn about Video-based Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus
[*]April 10th (Math Jam), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MathILy and MathILy-Er Math Jam: Multibackwards Numbers
[*]April 22nd (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Competitive Programming at AoPS (USACO).[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
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[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

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What belongs on this forum?
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Mathcounts and how to learn

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Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Woaah a lot of external tangents
egxa   3
N 26 minutes ago by NO_SQUARES
Source: All Russian 2025 11.7
A quadrilateral \( ABCD \) with no parallel sides is inscribed in a circle \( \Omega \). Circles \( \omega_a, \omega_b, \omega_c, \omega_d \) are inscribed in triangles \( DAB, ABC, BCD, CDA \), respectively. Common external tangents are drawn between \( \omega_a \) and \( \omega_b \), \( \omega_b \) and \( \omega_c \), \( \omega_c \) and \( \omega_d \), and \( \omega_d \) and \( \omega_a \), not containing any sides of quadrilateral \( ABCD \). A quadrilateral whose consecutive sides lie on these four lines is inscribed in a circle \( \Gamma \). Prove that the lines joining the centers of \( \omega_a \) and \( \omega_c \), \( \omega_b \) and \( \omega_d \), and the centers of \( \Omega \) and \( \Gamma \) all intersect at one point.
3 replies
egxa
Apr 18, 2025
NO_SQUARES
26 minutes ago
2023 Hong Kong TST 3 (CHKMO) Problem 4
PikaNiko   3
N 36 minutes ago by lightsynth123
Source: 2023 Hong Kong TST 3 (CHKMO)
Let $ABCD$ be a quadrilateral inscribed in a circle $\Gamma$ such that $AB=BC=CD$. Let $M$ and $N$ be the midpoints of $AD$ and $AB$ respectively. The line $CM$ meets $\Gamma$ again at $E$. Prove that the tangent at $E$ to $\Gamma$, the line $AD$ and the line $CN$ are concurrent.
3 replies
PikaNiko
Dec 3, 2022
lightsynth123
36 minutes ago
Continuity of function and line segment of integer length
egxa   2
N 40 minutes ago by NO_SQUARES
Source: All Russian 2025 11.8
Let \( f: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R} \) be a continuous function. A chord is defined as a segment of integer length, parallel to the x-axis, whose endpoints lie on the graph of \( f \). It is known that the graph of \( f \) contains exactly \( N \) chords, one of which has length 2025. Find the minimum possible value of \( N \).
2 replies
egxa
Apr 18, 2025
NO_SQUARES
40 minutes ago
Disjoint Pairs
MithsApprentice   41
N 44 minutes ago by NerdyNashville
Source: USAMO 1998
Suppose that the set $\{1,2,\cdots, 1998\}$ has been partitioned into disjoint pairs $\{a_i,b_i\}$ ($1\leq i\leq 999$) so that for all $i$, $|a_i-b_i|$ equals $1$ or $6$. Prove that the sum \[ |a_1-b_1|+|a_2-b_2|+\cdots +|a_{999}-b_{999}|  \] ends in the digit $9$.
41 replies
MithsApprentice
Oct 9, 2005
NerdyNashville
44 minutes ago
9 Did you get into Illinois middle school math Olympiad?
Gavin_Deng   7
N Today at 2:10 AM by anishm2
I am simply curious of who got in.
7 replies
Gavin_Deng
Apr 19, 2025
anishm2
Today at 2:10 AM
Weird Similarity
mithu542   4
N Today at 1:38 AM by EthanNg6
Is it just me or are the 2023 national sprint #21 and 2025 state target #4 strangely similar?
[quote=2023 Natioinal Sprint #21] A right triangle with integer side lengths has perimeter $N$ feet and area $N$ ft^2. What is the arithmetic mean of all possible values of $N$?[/quote]
[quote=2025 State Target #4]Suppose a right triangle has an area of 20 cm^2 and a perimeter of 40 cm. What is
the length of the hypotenuse, in centimeters?[/quote]
4 replies
mithu542
Apr 18, 2025
EthanNg6
Today at 1:38 AM
geometry problem
kjhgyuio   8
N Today at 1:36 AM by EthanNg6
........
8 replies
kjhgyuio
Apr 20, 2025
EthanNg6
Today at 1:36 AM
2025 MATHCOUNTS State Hub
SirAppel   596
N Yesterday at 10:43 PM by Eddie_tiger
Previous Years' "Hubs": (2022) (2023) (2024)Please Read

Now that it's April and we're allowed to discuss ...
[list=disc]
[*] CA: 43 (45 44 43 43 43 42 42 41 41 41)
[*] NJ: 43 (45 44 44 43 39 42 40 40 39 38) *
[*] NY: 42 (43 42 42 42 41 40)
[*] TX: 42 (43 43 43 42 42 40 40 38 38 38)
[*] MA: 41 (45 43 42 41)
[*] WA: 41 (41 45 42 41 41 41 41 41 41 40) *
[*]VA: 40 (41 40 40 40)
[*] FL: 39 (42 41 40 39 38 37 37)
[*] IN: 39 (41 40 40 39 36 35 35 35 34 34)
[*] NC: 39 (42 42 41 39)
[*] IL: 38 (41 40 39 38 38 38)
[*] OR: 38 (44 39 38 38)
[*] PA: 38 (41 40 40 38 38 37 36 36 34 34) *
[*] MD: 37 (43 39 39 37 37 37)
[*] AZ: 36 (40? 39? 39 36)
[*] CT: 36 (44 38 38 36 35 35 34 34 34 33 33 32 32 32 32)
[*] MI: 36 (39 41 41 36 37 37 36 36 36 36) *
[*] MN: 36 (40 36 36 36 35 35 35 34)
[*] CO: 35 (41 37 37 35 35 35 ?? 31 31 30) *
[*] GA: 35 (38 37 36 35 34 34 34 34 34 33)
[*] OH: 35 (41 37 36 35)
[*] AR: 34 (46 45 35 34 33 31 31 31 29 29)
[*] NV: 34 (41 38 ?? 34)
[*] TN: 34 (38 ?? ?? 34)
[*] WI: 34 (40 37 37 34 35 30 28 29 29 29) *
[*] HI: 32 (35 34 32 32)
[*] NH: 31 (42 35 33 31 30)
[*] DE: 30 (34 33 32 30 30 29 28 27 26? 24)
[*] SC: 30 (33 33 31 30)
[*] IA: 29 (33 30 31 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29) *
[*] NE: 28 (34 30 28 28 27 27 26 26 25 25)
[*] SD: 22 (30 29 24 22 22 22 21 21 20 20)
[/list]
Cutoffs Unknown

* means that CDR is official in that state.

Notes

For those asking about the removal of the tiers, I'd like to quote Jason himself:
[quote=peace09]
learn from my mistakes
[/quote]

Help contribute by sharing your state's cutoffs!
596 replies
SirAppel
Apr 1, 2025
Eddie_tiger
Yesterday at 10:43 PM
k NO WAY RICHARD RUSCYK REPLIED TO MY MESSAGE
nmlikesmath   0
Yesterday at 7:50 PM
CHAT THIS IS UNREAL
TYSM RICHARD THANK YOU SO MUCH
0 replies
nmlikesmath
Yesterday at 7:50 PM
0 replies
Website to learn math
hawa   43
N Yesterday at 6:44 PM by anticodon
Hi, I'm kinda curious what website do yall use to learn math, like i dont find any website thats fun to learn math
43 replies
hawa
Apr 9, 2025
anticodon
Yesterday at 6:44 PM
A twist on a classic
happypi31415   10
N Yesterday at 6:22 PM by Maxklark
Rank from smallest to largest: $\sqrt[2]{2}$, $\sqrt[3]{3}$, and $\sqrt[5]{5}$.

Click to reveal hidden text
10 replies
happypi31415
Mar 17, 2025
Maxklark
Yesterday at 6:22 PM
Show that the expression is divisable by 5
Deomad123   5
N Yesterday at 6:20 PM by Maxklark
This was taken from a junior math competition.
$$5|3^{2009} - 7^{2007}$$
5 replies
Deomad123
Mar 25, 2025
Maxklark
Yesterday at 6:20 PM
easy olympiad problem
kjhgyuio   6
N Yesterday at 6:18 PM by Maxklark
Find all positive integer values of \( x \) such that
\[
\sqrt{x - 2011} + \sqrt{2011 - x} + 10
\]is an integer.
6 replies
kjhgyuio
Apr 17, 2025
Maxklark
Yesterday at 6:18 PM
Mathpath acceptance rate
fossasor   15
N Yesterday at 6:15 PM by ZMB038
Does someone have an estimate for the acceptance rate for MathPath?
15 replies
fossasor
Dec 21, 2024
ZMB038
Yesterday at 6:15 PM
Power Of Factorials
Kassuno   178
N Apr 1, 2025 by Maximilian113
Source: IMO 2019 Problem 4
Find all pairs $(k,n)$ of positive integers such that \[ k!=(2^n-1)(2^n-2)(2^n-4)\cdots(2^n-2^{n-1}). \]Proposed by Gabriel Chicas Reyes, El Salvador
178 replies
Kassuno
Jul 17, 2019
Maximilian113
Apr 1, 2025
Power Of Factorials
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: IMO 2019 Problem 4
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
sansgankrsngupta
131 posts
#188 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
OG solution
Z K Y
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sansgankrsngupta
131 posts
#189 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Safal wrote:
sansgankrsngupta wrote:
OG solution probably the shortest:

$v_2{k!}<k$ $v_2{RHS}$ = n(n-1)/2 thus $ n(n-1)/2 <k$ , now RHS<$2^{n(n-1)}$ thus k!<$2^{n(n-1)}$ ($H_k$ denotes k th harmonic number now $2^{n(n-1)}$> k!> ${\frac{k}{H_k}}^{k}$>${\frac{k}{ln(k)+1}}^{k}$ > $4^{k}$ if ($k >=16$ ) thus n(n-1)/2>k which is a contradiction thus, k<16 now it is just hit and trial to get 1,1 and 2,3 (n,k) as only solutions

Can you Latex it properly ,Please.
You can use AI tool to do it. It's really hard to read.

@Below ,plz edit the latex.

I have edited the latex, I hope now you can read
Z K Y
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L13832
262 posts
#190 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
We check $v_2$ and $v_3$ :-
\begin{align*}
v_2((2^n-1)(2^n-2)(2^n-2^2)\cdots(2^n-2^{n-1}))&=v_2((2^\frac{n(n-1)}{2})\cdot (2^{n-1}-1)\cdot (2^{n-2}-1) \cdots (2-1))\\&=\frac{n(n-1)}{2}\\v_2({k!})&=\Biggl\lfloor \frac{k}{2} \Biggr\rfloor + \Biggl\lfloor \frac{k}{4} \Biggr\rfloor + \cdots \le k
\\& \implies k\ge \frac{n(n-1)}{2} 
\end{align*}Now, from LTE, we have that $\nu_3(2^{2m} - 1) = \nu_3(3m)$
if n is odd then we get $\nu_3(2^{n} - 1) =0$.
Also note that $v_3({2^m-2^n})=v_3({2^{m-n}-1})$
\begin{align*} v_3(k!) &= v_3((2^n-1)(2^{n-1} - 1) \cdots 1) \\ &= v_3(2^n -1)v_3(2^{n-1} - 1) \cdots v_3(1) \\ &= \lfloor \tfrac{n}{2} \rfloor + v_3(\lfloor \tfrac{n}{2} \rfloor !)\le \frac{n}{2}+\frac{n}{6}+\ldots=\frac{3}{4}n \geq \Biggl\lfloor\frac{k}{3}\Biggl\rfloor> \frac{k-3}{3} \\& \implies \frac{9}{4}n+3>k\ge \frac{n(n-1)}{2} \implies n\leq 6
\end{align*}By checking manually we see that $(k,n)=\boxed{(1,1),(3,2)}$
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SenorSloth
37 posts
#191 • 1 Y
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We claim that the only answers are $(k,n)=(1,1)$ and $(3,2)$, which clearly work. We can test $n=3$ and $n=4$ to see they do not have an integer solution for $k$.

Now note that the right side rewrites as $2^{\frac{n(n-1)}{2}}\cdot\prod_{i=1}^{n}(2^i-1)$. Since $2^5-1=31$, every $i$ divisible by $5$ contributes at least one factor of $31$. Thus, $\nu_{31}\left(\prod_{i=0}^{n-1} (2^n-2^i)\right)\geq \left\lfloor \frac n5 \right \rfloor$. Since the order of $2\pmod{11}$ is $10$ and $\nu_{11}(1023)=1$, using LTE we have that $\nu_{11} \left(\prod_{i=0}^{n-1} (2^n-2^i)\right) = \left\lfloor \frac {n}{10} \right \rfloor+\left\lfloor \frac {n}{110} \right \rfloor+\left\lfloor \frac {n}{1210} \right \rfloor+\dots$, which is always less than $\left\lfloor \frac {n}{5} \right \rfloor$.

However, $\nu_{11}(k!)\geq \nu_{31}(k!)$ for all $k$, thus the two sides cannot be equal for $n>4$, and there are no more solutions.
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cursed_tangent1434
597 posts
#192 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
We claim that the only pairs of solutions are $(k,n)=(1,1)$ and $(3,2)$. It is not hard to see that these solutions work, now we shall show that they are the only ones.

First note that comparing $\nu_2$ of both sides we have,
\begin{align*}
\frac{n(n-1)}{2} & = \nu_2(k!)\\
& = \sum _{i=1}^\infty \lfloor{\frac{k}{2^i}}\rfloor\\
& \le k
\end{align*}Thus, $k \ge \frac{n(n-1)}{2}$.

But then, note that $3\mid 2^i-1$ if and only if $2\mid i$. Further, by LTE we have for all even $i$, $\nu_3(2^i-1)= \nu_3(4-1) + \nu_3(\frac{i}{2}) = \nu_3(\frac{i}{2}) +1$. Thus,
\begin{align*}
\nu_3((2^n-1)(2^n-2)(2^n-4)\dots(2^n-2^{n-1})) & = \nu_3(\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor) + \nu_3(\lfloor \frac{n-2}{2}\rfloor) + \dots + \nu_3(1)\\
&= \nu_3((\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor)!) + \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor 
\end{align*}Thus, as a result of our previous bound we have,
\begin{align*}
\nu_3((\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor)!) + \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor  & = \nu_3(k!)\\
& \ge \nu_3((\lfloor \frac{n(n-1)}{2} \rfloor)!)\\
& \ge (n-1)\nu_3((\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor)!) 
\end{align*}which implies,
\[\frac{n}{6}-1<\lfloor \frac{n}{6} \rfloor\le \nu_3((\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor)!)  \le \frac{\lfloor \frac{n}{2} \rfloor}{n-2}\]from which it is not hard to see that we require $n<10$.
Checking the possibilities $n<5$ we see that $n=1$ and $n=2$ work yielding $k=1$ and $k=3$ respectively and others don't ($n=4$ almost works). When $n\ge 5$, we have $31 \mid k!$. Thus, we must have $29 \mid k!$ as well. So, 29 is a fraction of some expression of the form $2^i-1$ which is clearly impossible for any $i<10$ which completes the check.
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kotmhn
58 posts
#193 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Let $s_{p}(n)$ be the sum of digits in the base $p$ expansion of $n$ , and the RHS be $Q$. Clearly
\[ \nu_2(Q) = \frac{n(n-1)}{2}\]That shows $k \in \{2^n,2^n + 1\}$. Then observe that
\[ \nu_p(k!) \leq \lfloor \frac{2^n}{p-1}\rfloor \leq \nu_p(Q)\]Clearly for all primes the $+1$ makes no diffrence. now the equality should hold for that $Q$ should only contain prime factors less than 7. as we want $\lfloor \frac{2^n}{p-1}\rfloor$
to be an integer. so 7 can't be in and hence no number above it.
Manually checking for $k \in \{1,2,3,4,5,6\}$ we see that only $(1,1),(2,3)$ work
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by kotmhn, Sep 13, 2024, 7:55 PM
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numbertheory97
42 posts
#194 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
The only solutions are $(n, k) = (1, 1)$ and $(2, 3)$. The main idea is that for large enough $n$ (which will actually be pretty small), the right side has too many factors of $2$ to balance out the other prime factors. Specifically, in addition to examining $\nu_2$ we'll also look at $\nu_3$.

Notice that \[\nu_2(k!) = \sum_{i = 0}^{n - 1} \nu_2(2^n - 2^i) = 1 + 2 + \dots + (n - 1) = \frac{n(n - 1)}{2}\]and \[\nu_3(k!) = \nu_3\left(\prod_{i = 0}^{n - 1} (2^n - 2^i)\right) = \sum_{i = 1}^n \nu_3(2^i - 1) = \sum_{i = 1}^{\lfloor n/2 \rfloor} \nu_3(4^i - 1) = \left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor + \sum_{i = 1}^{\lfloor n/2 \rfloor} \nu_3(i)\]\[ = \left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor + \nu_3\left(\left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor!\right)\]by LTE and the fact that $\nu_3(2^i - 1)$ is $0$ when $i$ is odd. This implies that $k > \lfloor n/2 \rfloor$, so \[\nu_3\left(\left(\left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor + 1\right) \cdot \left(\left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor + 2\right) \cdots k\right) = \left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor.\]At least $\left\lfloor \frac{k - \lfloor n/2 \rfloor}{3} \right\rfloor$ terms in the product on the left side are divisible by $3$, so we discover that \[\left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor \geq \left\lfloor \frac{k - \lfloor n/2 \rfloor}{3} \right\rfloor \geq \frac{k - \lfloor n/2 \rfloor}{3} - 1 \implies k \leq 4 \left\lfloor \frac n2 \right\rfloor + 3 \leq 2n + 3.\]But from before we have \[\frac{n(n - 1)}{2} = \nu_2(k!) = k - s_2(k) < k,\]so $\frac{n(n - 1)}{2} < 2n + 3$. Rearranging yields $(n - 6)(n + 1) < 0$, so $n < 6$. Checking these cases reveals that only $n = 1$ and $n = 2$ work as desired. $\square$
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pie854
243 posts
#195 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
We'll show that if $n\geq 8$ then no such $k$ exists. First we'll prove a lemma.

Lemma: If $n\geq 8$ then $\prod_{i=1}^n \left (2^n-2^{n-i}\right)>(2n)!$.
Proof. Notice that $2^i-1>2i(2i-1)$ if $i\geq 8$ and we can check that $2^{8-i} \left (2^i-1\right )>2i(2i-1)$ if $i<8$. So we have $$\prod_{i=1}^n \left (2^{n-i}(2^i-1)\right)>\prod_{i=1}^n(2i(2i-1)),$$which is equivalent to the lemma. ////

From the lemma, it follows that $k>2n$. So $$v_3(k!)\geq v_3((2n)!)=\sum_{i=1}^\infty \left\lfloor \frac{2n}{3^i} \right\rfloor \qquad (1)$$Now we state another lemma.

Lemma: $2$ is a primitive root mod $3^m$ for $m=1,2,\dots$.
Proof. Well known. Use LTE. ////

By the lemma we have $2^i-1\equiv 0\pmod{3^m}$ iff $2\cdot 3^{m-1}=\phi(3^m)\mid i$. So, $$v_3\left (\prod_{i=1}^n \left (2^n-2^{n-i}\right)\right)=\sum_{i=1}^n v_3\left (2^i-1\right)=\sum_{i=1}^\infty \left \lfloor \frac{n}{2\cdot 3^{i-1}}\right \rfloor \qquad (2)$$Since $\frac{2n}{3^i}>\frac{n}{2\cdot 3^{i-1}}$ it follows that $\left \lfloor \frac{2n}{3^i}\right \rfloor \geq \left \lfloor \frac{n}{2\cdot 3^{i-1}}\right \rfloor$. But for $n\geq 8$ we have $$\left \lfloor \frac{2n}{3}\right \rfloor >\frac 23 n-1>\frac n2\geq \left \lfloor \frac{n}{2}\right \rfloor.$$So from $(1)$ and $(2)$ it follows that $$v_3(k!)>v_3\left (\prod_{i=1}^n \left (2^n-2^{n-i}\right)\right) \implies k!\neq \prod_{i=1}^n \left (2^n-2^{n-i}\right),$$as claimed.

Now for $n<8$ we can manually check and find that only $n=1,2$ work.
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ezpotd
1259 posts
#196 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
I claim the answers are $(1,1), (2,3)$ only, it is trivial to verify that both of these work.

To eliminate $n = 3,4$, compute the right hand side as $7 \cdot 6 \cdot 4, 7 \cdot 6 \cdot 4 \cdot 8 \cdot 15$ which is just $168, 168 \cdot 120$, the latter of which is just $4 \cdot 7!$, so neither of these are factorials. We take $\nu_2$ of both sides. We get $k \ge \nu_2(k!) = \nu_2(\prod 2^n - 2^i) = \frac 12 (n^2 -n)$. Now we can bound $\prod 2^n - 2^i < 2^{n(n - 1)} = 4^(\frac 12 (n)(n - 1))$. We claim that for $n > 4$ we have $ (\frac 12 (n^2 - n))! > 4^{\frac 12 (n^2 - n)}$, resulting in no solutions. We can rewrite this as $\prod_{1 \le i \le \binom n2} \frac i4 > 1$, the inequality $\frac i4 > 1$ is true for most $i$, to deal with the ones where its not we can just combine them with the highest values of $i$, thus we show for $x \ge 10$ the inequality $x(x - 1)(x - 2)\cdot (3 \cdot 2 \cdot 1) > 4^6$ is true, which is just combining the three highest terms with the three lowest. This is just obviously true by computation and the fact that the function is increasing.
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smileapple
1010 posts
#198 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Observe that \[\frac{n(n-1)}2=\nu_2\left(\prod_{i=0}^{n-1}(2^n-2^i)\right)=\nu_2(k!)\le k\]where the last step follows from evaluating Legendre's formula as a geometric series.

Observe also that \[\frac{k}3-1<\nu_3(k!)=\nu_3\left(\prod_{i=0}^{n-1}(2^n-2^i)\right)=\nu_3\left(\prod_{i=1}^{n}(2^i-1)\right).\]Now $\nu_3(2^m-1)=0$ if $m$ is odd and $\nu_3(2^m-1)=\nu_3(4^{\frac{m}2}-1)=\nu_3(m)+1$ if $m$ by lifting exponents. Continuing from above, we find that \[\frac{k}3-1<\nu_3\left(\prod_{i=1}^{n}(2^i-1)\right)\le\frac{n}2+\sum_{i=1}^{\left\lfloor\frac{n}2\right\rfloor}\nu_3(2i)\le\frac{n}2+\nu_3(n!)<n\]where the last step again follows from evaluating Legendre's formula as a geometric series.

Combining the above results imply that $n^2-n\le 2k<6n+6$, so $n<7$. Manually checking yields that the only solutions are $(k,n)=(1,1)$ and $(k,n)=(2,3)$. $\blacksquare$
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mathwiz_1207
95 posts
#200 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Kind of messy oops. Anyways, instead of examining $v_2$, we will consider $v_5$ and $v_7$. We claim that the only solutions are $(k, n) = \boxed{(1, 1)}$ and $\boxed{(3, 2)}$. It is easy to check that they both work. Now, note that for any $k \geq 0$,
\[v_5(k!) \geq v_7(k!)\]This is trivial by Legendre's. Now, let
\[P(n) = \prod_{i = 0}^{n - 1} (2^n- 2^i)\]Thus, if there were a solution pair $(k, n)$ we would need
\[v_5(P(n)) \geq v_7(P(n))\]Now, note that the order of $2$ modulo $5, 7$ is $4, 3$ respectively. So, by LTE
\[v_5(2^{4k} - 1) = v_5(k) + 1\]\[v_7(2^{3k} - 1) = v_7(k) + 1\]Thus, we in fact have
\[v_5(P(n)) = \left\lfloor \frac{n}{4} \right\rfloor + \left\lfloor \frac{n}{4 \cdot 5} \right \rfloor + \cdots\]\[v_7(P(n)) = \left\lfloor \frac{n}{3} \right\rfloor + \left\lfloor \frac{n}{3 \cdot 7} \right \rfloor + \cdots\]Now, notice that
\[v_5(P(n)) = \left\lfloor \frac{n}{4} \right\rfloor + \left\lfloor \frac{n}{4 \cdot 5} \right\rfloor + \cdots < \frac{n}{4} + \frac{n}{4 \cdot 5} + \cdots = \frac{5n}{16}\]Furthermore, if $m = \log_7(n)$, then
\[v_7(P(n)) > \frac{n}{3} r + \cdots + \frac{n}{3 \cdot 7^m} - (m + 1) \geq \frac{n}{18}(\frac{7^{m + 1} - 1}{7^m}) - (m + 1)\]Assume $m > 1 \implies n \geq 8$, then we can in fact write
\[v_7(P(n)) > \frac{n}{3} r + \cdots + \frac{n}{3 \cdot 7^m} - (m + 1) \geq \frac{n}{18}(\frac{7^{m + 1} - 1}{7^m}) - (m + 1) > \frac{8n}{21} - m - 1\]Thus, we have
\[\frac{5n}{16} > v_5(P(n)) \geq v_7(P(n)) > \frac{8n}{21} - \log_7(n) - 1\]\[\log_7(n) + 1 > \frac{23n}{16 \cdot 21}\]\[7n > 7^{\frac{23n}{16 \cdot 21}}\]Since the RHS grows faster than the LHS, $n$ is clearly bounded. Furthermore, $n = 48$ doesn't satisfy the above, so we must have $n \leq 48$. Then, the values of $v_5(P(n))$ and $v_7(P(n))$ can be manually calculated, giving $n = 1, 2, 4, 5, 8$ as the possible candidates, of which only $n = 1, 2$ work, so we are done.
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Ihatecombin
58 posts
#201 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
The only pairs that exist are \((1,1)\), \((3,2)\). Notice that \(v_2(\text{R.H.S}) = \frac{n(n-1)}{2}\). Therefore we must have
\[k = \sum_{i=1}^{\infty} \frac{k}{2^i} \geq \sum_{i=1}^{\infty} \left\lfloor\frac{k}{2^i}\right\rfloor = v_2(k!) = \frac{n(n-1)}{2}\]Hence we obtain
\[k! \geq \frac{n(n-1)}{2}! \Longrightarrow (2^n-1)(2^n-2)(2^n-4)\cdots(2^n-2^{n-1}) \geq \frac{n(n-1)}{2}!\]However it is obvious that
\[2^{n^2-1} \geq (2^n-1)(2^n-2)(2^n-4) \cdots (2^n-2^{n-1})\]the \(-1\) appears since \(2^{n} - 2^{n-1} = 2^{n-1}\), this is just to help with the computation later on. So we must have
\[2^{n-1} \cdot 4^{\frac{n(n-1)}{2}} = 2^{n^2-1} \geq \frac{n(n-1)}{2}!\]Claim
Proof
That was a bit of a silly claim. We shall move on to a more impactful one
Claim
Proof
So we must have a contradiction for \(n \geq 6\). Now we shall just bash all \(n \leq 5\) to obtain the values above (note \(n=5\) is easy since \(2^5-1 = 31\) implying \(k \geq 31\) which is absurd).
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cubres
114 posts
#202
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Storage - grinding IMO problems
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Warideeb
59 posts
#203 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
Bruh just $v_2$ bashing and bounding
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Maximilian113
550 posts
#204 • 1 Y
Y by cubres
By $v_2$ we have that $$\frac{(n-1)n}{2} = v_2(k!) \leq k-1 \implies k > \frac{(n-1)n}{2}.$$Meanwhile by LTE and Legendre's $$v_3(k!) = v_3\left( \left \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \right \rfloor ! \right)+\left \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \right \rfloor \implies \frac{k}{3}-1 \leq \frac{\left \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \right \rfloor - 1}{2}+\left \lfloor \frac{n}{2} \right \rfloor \leq \frac34 n - \frac12.$$Thus, $$\frac{n(n-1)}{2} < \frac94 n + \frac32 \implies n \leq 5.$$Testing yields the only solutions $\boxed{(k, n) = (2, 2), (1, 1)}.$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Maximilian113, Apr 1, 2025, 5:36 PM
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