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k a April Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Apr 2, 2025
Spring is in full swing and summer is right around the corner, what are your plans? At AoPS Online our schedule has new classes starting now through July, so be sure to keep your skills sharp and be prepared for the Fall school year! Check out the schedule of upcoming classes below.

WOOT early bird pricing is in effect, don’t miss out! If you took MathWOOT Level 2 last year, no worries, it is all new problems this year! Our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training program is for high school level competitors. AoPS designed these courses to help our top students get the deep focus they need to succeed in their specific competition goals. Check out the details at this link for all our WOOT programs in math, computer science, chemistry, and physics.

Looking for summer camps in math and language arts? Be sure to check out the video-based summer camps offered at the Virtual Campus that are 2- to 4-weeks in duration. There are middle and high school competition math camps as well as Math Beasts camps that review key topics coupled with fun explorations covering areas such as graph theory (Math Beasts Camp 6), cryptography (Math Beasts Camp 7-8), and topology (Math Beasts Camp 8-9)!

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]April 3rd (Webinar), 4pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learning with AoPS: Perspectives from a Parent, Math Camp Instructor, and University Professor
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April 9th (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Learn about Video-based Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus
[*]April 10th (Math Jam), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MathILy and MathILy-Er Math Jam: Multibackwards Numbers
[*]April 22nd (Webinar), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Competitive Programming at AoPS (USACO).[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Apr 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Pebble Game
oVlad   6
N 15 minutes ago by The5within
Source: KöMaL A. 790
Andrew and Barry play the following game: there are two heaps with $a$ and $b$ pebbles, respectively. In the first round Barry chooses a positive integer $k,$ and Andrew takes away $k$ pebbles from one of the two heaps (if $k$ is bigger than the number of pebbles in the heap, he takes away the complete heap). In the second round, the roles are reversed: Andrew chooses a positive integer and Barry takes away the pebbles from one of the two heaps. This goes on, in each round the two players are reversing the roles. The player that takes the last pebble loses the game.

Which player has a winning strategy?

Submitted by András Imolay, Budapest
6 replies
oVlad
Mar 24, 2022
The5within
15 minutes ago
Equality with Fermat Point
nsato   13
N 21 minutes ago by Nari_Tom
Source: 2012 Baltic Way, Problem 11
Let $ABC$ be a triangle with $\angle A = 60^\circ$. The point $T$ lies inside the triangle in such a way that $\angle ATB = \angle BTC = \angle CTA = 120^\circ$. Let $M$ be the midpoint of $BC$. Prove that $TA + TB + TC = 2AM$.
13 replies
nsato
Nov 22, 2012
Nari_Tom
21 minutes ago
China 2017 TSTST1 Day 2 Geometry Problem
HuangZhen   46
N an hour ago by ihategeo_1969
Source: China 2017 TSTST1 Day 2 Problem 5
In the non-isosceles triangle $ABC$,$D$ is the midpoint of side $BC$,$E$ is the midpoint of side $CA$,$F$ is the midpoint of side $AB$.The line(different from line $BC$) that is tangent to the inscribed circle of triangle $ABC$ and passing through point $D$ intersect line $EF$ at $X$.Define $Y,Z$ similarly.Prove that $X,Y,Z$ are collinear.
46 replies
HuangZhen
Mar 7, 2017
ihategeo_1969
an hour ago
Cool combinatorial problem (grid)
Anto0110   1
N an hour ago by Anto0110
Suppose you have an $m \cdot n$ grid with $m$ rows and $n$ columns, and each square of the grid is filled with a non-negative integer. Let $a$ be the average of all the numbers in the grid. Prove that if $m >(10a+10)^n$ the there exist two identical rows (meaning same numbers in the same order).
1 reply
Anto0110
Yesterday at 1:57 PM
Anto0110
an hour ago
After Mathcounts
Existing_Human1   13
N 5 hours ago by Existing_Human1
Hello Community!

I am officially done with my mathcounts career, as I have officially failed state, and I am now left an aloof blob reminiscing about the good old days.

So ... I was wondering if any of you have fun competitions I can do to relive the glory days of mathcounts. Obviously, their are the AMCs but I'm looking for something more team/travel based and one that preferably has a CDR.

Please specify if the competition is team based and if it has a cdr, and also when it takes place

Thank you in advance!
13 replies
Existing_Human1
Yesterday at 6:21 PM
Existing_Human1
5 hours ago
real math problems
Soupboy0   44
N 6 hours ago by maxamc
Ill be posting questions once in a while. Here's the first question:

What fraction of numbers from $1$ to $1000$ have the digit $7$ and are divisible by $3$?
44 replies
Soupboy0
Mar 25, 2025
maxamc
6 hours ago
STATE SOLUTIONS AND STUFF DROPPED!!!
Soupboy0   47
N Today at 1:44 AM by giratina3
https://www.mathcounts.org/resources/past-competitions
47 replies
Soupboy0
Friday at 5:44 PM
giratina3
Today at 1:44 AM
EMC Wrangle Favorites #1
peace09   7
N Today at 1:34 AM by RollingPanda4616
Is it possible to dissect an isosceles right triangle into multiple similar triangles such that none of them are congruent? If so, provide an example. If not, prove it is impossible.
7 replies
peace09
Jul 28, 2022
RollingPanda4616
Today at 1:34 AM
The daily problem!
Leeoz   62
N Today at 12:42 AM by huajun78
Every day, I will try to post a new problem for you all to solve! If you want to post a daily problem, you can! :)

Please hide solutions and answers, hints are fine though! :)

The first problem is:
[quote=March 21st Problem]Alice flips a fair coin until she gets 2 heads in a row, or a tail and then a head. What is the probability that she stopped after 2 heads in a row? Express your answer as a common fraction.[/quote]

Past Problems!
62 replies
Leeoz
Mar 21, 2025
huajun78
Today at 12:42 AM
Math Problem I cant figure out how to do without bashing
equalsmc2   0
Today at 12:29 AM
Hi,
I cant figure out how to do these 2 problems without bashing. Do you guys have any ideas for an elegant solution? Thank you!
Prob 1.
An RSM sports field has a square shape. Poles with letters M, A, T, H are located at the corners of the square (see the diagram). During warm up, a student starts at any pole, runs to another pole along a side of the square or across the field along diagonal MT (only in the direction from M to T), then runs to another pole along a side of the square or along diagonal MT, and so on. The student cannot repeat a run along the same side/diagonal of the square in the same direction. For instance, she cannot run from M to A twice, but she can run from M to A and at some point from A to M. How many different ways are there to complete the warm up that includes all nine possible runs (see the diagram)? One possible way is M-A-T-H-M-H-T-A-M-T (picture attached)

Prob 2.
In the expression 5@5@5@5@5 you replace each of the four @ symbols with either +, or, or x, or . You can insert one or more pairs of parentheses to control the order of operations. Find the second least whole number that CANNOT be the value of the resulting expression. For example, each of the numbers 25=5+5+5+5+5 and 605+(5+5)×5+5 can be the value of the resulting expression.

Prob 3. (This isnt bashing I don't understand how to do it though)
Suppose BC = 3AB in rectangle ABCD. Points E and F are on side BC such that BE = EF = FC. Compute the sum of the degree measures of the four angles EAB, EAF, EAC, EAD.

P.S. These are from an RSM olympiad. The answers are
0 replies
equalsmc2
Today at 12:29 AM
0 replies
amc10 chances?
aoh11   29
N Yesterday at 11:28 PM by avyaank
if i got a 55.5 on amc10, what are my chances of making aime???
29 replies
aoh11
Apr 4, 2025
avyaank
Yesterday at 11:28 PM
Math and AI 4 Girls
mkwhe   1
N Yesterday at 11:25 PM by avyaank
Hey everyone!

The 2025 MA4G competition is now open!

Apply Here: https://xmathandai4girls.submittable.com/submit


Visit https://www.mathandai4girls.org/ to get started!

Feel free to PM or email mathandai4girls@yahoo.com if you have any questions!
1 reply
mkwhe
Yesterday at 11:24 PM
avyaank
Yesterday at 11:25 PM
mathcounts state score thread
Soupboy0   72
N Yesterday at 10:33 PM by iwastedmyusername
\begin{table}[]
\begin{tabular}{llllll}
Username & Score & Sprint & Target & Nats? & Sillies \\
     Soupboy0    &     40  &     24   &   16     &    yes  &    6     \\
         &       &        &        &       &         \\
         &       &        &        &       &        
\end{tabular}\end{table}
72 replies
Soupboy0
Apr 1, 2025
iwastedmyusername
Yesterday at 10:33 PM
FTW tournament!
evt917   334
N Yesterday at 6:59 PM by AbhayAttarde01
[center]Since all FTW tournaments have dramatically failed, I'm trying a different format. Here is how it works:

1. Type \signup{your rating (type 800 for unrated)}

2. You will pick who you want to play with. You can play if they accept your challenge. So basically the players run everything. Just don't intentionally play low-rated people. Also try to play different people so everyone gets a chance to play! ONLY two player games.

3. If you win, you get 2 points. Ties get one point, and losses get zero.

4. I do not know everybody's time preferences. Because so, I will announce in advance which two players will be playing, so they themselves can organize a game themselves. Remember, THE PLAYERS ARE ORGANIZING THE GAMES THEMSELVES!!! The format is up to them, but please make the time control at least 20 seconds. Please announce the results of the game here so i can update the scoreboard. Games can be unrated.

recommended format if you cannot decide



5. The tournament goes on until april 10th! Extremely long, right? Note that you can still signup after the first games has started, but you will have a disadvantage because some people who signed up as soon as the tournament started already has points.

6. Once you are done with your game, you can find a new opponent and play with them if they want. Note that you must play opponents within the tournament. If you play in the tournament, you are automatically signed up. Have fun!


[rule]

Questions and Answers

All signups and ratings

[rule]

LIVE LEADERBOARD:

1st place: 47 points | 17W 3L 3T | Yrock
2nd place: 14 points | 6W 3L 2T | jb2015007
3rd place: 5 points | 2W 8L 1T | sadas123

4th place: 4 points | 1W 2L 0T | IcyFire500
5th place: 0 points | 0W 1L 0T | NS0004
334 replies
evt917
Apr 3, 2025
AbhayAttarde01
Yesterday at 6:59 PM
CGMO6: Airline companies and cities
v_Enhance   13
N Mar 29, 2025 by Marcus_Zhang
Source: 2012 China Girl's Mathematical Olympiad
There are $n$ cities, $2$ airline companies in a country. Between any two cities, there is exactly one $2$-way flight connecting them which is operated by one of the two companies. A female mathematician plans a travel route, so that it starts and ends at the same city, passes through at least two other cities, and each city in the route is visited once. She finds out that wherever she starts and whatever route she chooses, she must take flights of both companies. Find the maximum value of $n$.
13 replies
v_Enhance
Aug 13, 2012
Marcus_Zhang
Mar 29, 2025
CGMO6: Airline companies and cities
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
Source: 2012 China Girl's Mathematical Olympiad
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
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v_Enhance
6871 posts
#1 • 3 Y
Y by HamstPan38825, Adventure10, Mango247
There are $n$ cities, $2$ airline companies in a country. Between any two cities, there is exactly one $2$-way flight connecting them which is operated by one of the two companies. A female mathematician plans a travel route, so that it starts and ends at the same city, passes through at least two other cities, and each city in the route is visited once. She finds out that wherever she starts and whatever route she chooses, she must take flights of both companies. Find the maximum value of $n$.
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Mewto55555
4210 posts
#2 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
So for $n=6$ by the well-known argument, we have a monochrome triangle, so that doesn't work, and for $n=4$ a working construction is easy to find (connect vertex pairs {1,2}, {1,3}, {3,4} with red, and the rest blue). The question is, what about $n=5$?

Well, if any vertex is connected to 3 others by lines of the same color, we're done (since if any of these three are connected by that same color as well, we have a triangle, if none, they themselves form a monochromatic triangle). Thus, if we have a counter-example, each vertex has two edges of each color from it.

WLOG, connect 1 to 2 and 3 by red, 4 and 5 by blue. 2-3 is b, and 4-5 must be red, else we have triangles. Then, 2 is connected to one of 4,5 by blue, and the other by red (since it already has one red and one blue edge), WLOG connect it to 4 by blue, 5 by red. 3-5 must be blue, or else 1-2-5-3 form a red 4-cycle, and then 3,4 is blue to preserve the 2 of each color at 2. But then 2,3,4 is a blue cycle, so 5 doesn't work and 4 is the maximum.
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mathocean97
606 posts
#3 • 3 Y
Y by Vega826, Adventure10, Mango247
In fact, this problem is exactly lemma 20.1 in Problems From the Book.

Lemma 20.1 states:
Every coloring in 2 colors of a complete 6-graph contains a monochromatic triangle.
The only coloring of two colors in a complete 5-graph that does not have monochromatic triangles has the form:
there exists a pentagon with diagonals blue and sides red.

It's surprising that such a well-known result could show up on a contest...
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MellowMelon
5850 posts
#4 • 6 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247, spiritshine1234, and 3 other users
Using a result like that is overkill. It's not surprising that a problem on the easy side like this one has appeared in a generalized form before.

The problem is basically asking when $K_n$'s edges can be partitioned into two acyclic graphs. An acyclic graph on $n$ vertices can have at most $n-1$ edges, so there are at most $2(n-1)$ edges. On the other hand $K_n$ has $\frac{n(n-1)}{2}$ edges, so $n \leq 4$. Get the easy construction for $K_4$ and that's it.
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mavropnevma
15142 posts
#5 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Similarly, for $3$ colors we need three acyclic graphs, thus $\frac {n(n-1)} {2} \leq 3(n-1)$, whence $n\leq 6$. A model for a $K_6$ of vertices $\{1,2,3,4,5,6\}$ is given by the three paths $123456, 246135, 362514$.

Is it true that, for $k$ colors, needing $\frac {n(n-1)} {2} \leq k(n-1)$, hence $n\leq 2k$, the graph $K_{2k}$ can be partitioned into $k$ paths of length $2k-1$ each? or else in some other way into $k$ spanning trees ? This result should be known, I guess ...

EDIT. Indeed, it is proved that a $K_{2k}$ has a decomposition into $k$ Hamiltonian paths. Together with the above necessary condition $n\leq 2k$, we have a complete answer.
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Mewto55555
4210 posts
#6 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
mavropnevma wrote:
Is it true that, for $k$ colors, needing $\frac {n(n-1)} {2} \leq k(n-1)$, hence $n\leq 2k$, the graph $K_{2k}$ can be partitioned into $k$ paths of length $2k-1$ each? or else in some other way into $k$ spanning trees ? This result should be known, I guess ...

Slightly less specific, it's easy to prove by induction there exist trees such that their union is the graph (i.e. a construction for 2k cities and k airlines), by a basic induction.

Consider the n trees of length 2n-1 for the 2n case, and then for 2n+2 case, we have n+1 trees of length 2n+1; to make these just attach vertices 2n+1 and 2n+2 to vertex 1 in the tree for airline 1, attach them to vertex 2 in the tree for airline 2, etc up to n. Now we just need to connect vertices 2n+1 and 2n+2 to each other as well as to vertices n+1,...,2n -- just draw those in. Obviously all of these new "trees" are in fact still trees, since we can't have accidentally introduced a cycle.

So the answer is in the general case of $k$ airlines is indeed $2k$, though I haven't found a construction consisting solely of paths or spanning trees yet.
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yayups
1614 posts
#7 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
The condition is saying that there is a graph $G$ on $n$ vertices such that it and its complement are both forests. We have $|E|=|V|-k$ for a forest ($k$ is the number of connected components). Therefore, we have that $e<n$ and $\binom{n}{2}-e<n$ where $e$ is the number of edges of $G$, so $\binom{n}{2}<2n$, so $n\le \boxed{4}$. For $n=4$, consider a path graph.
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62861
3564 posts
#8 • 4 Y
Y by v_Enhance, aopsuser305, Adventure10, Mango247
We are given that $K_n$ can be partitioned into two forests. Since forests are 2-colorable, $K_n$ is $2 \cdot 2$-colorable, so $n \le 4$.
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john0512
4176 posts
#9
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This is just saying the largest possible number of vertices with no monochromatic cycle. We claim the answer is 4. This can be achieved by making the "C" shape red and the rest of the graph blue.

Consider the graph $B$ consisting of all the blue edges, and the graph $R$ consisting of all the red edges. Since each graph does not have a cycle, $B$ and $R$ both have at most $n-1$ edges. Since they have a total of ${n\choose 2}$ edges, we have $${n\choose 2}\leq 2(n-1)\rightarrow n\leq 4,$$hence done.
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shendrew7
793 posts
#10
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Consider a graph $K_n$ with each edge colored red and blue. By Pigeonhole, at least $\left\lceil \frac{\binom n2}{2} \right\rceil$ edges of some color, say red. The maximal number of edges of a graph on $n$ vertices with no cycles is $n-1$, or a tree, so
\[\left\lceil \frac{\binom n2}{2} \right\rceil \leq n-1 \implies n \leq \boxed{4},\]which is easily constructable.
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cursed_tangent1434
569 posts
#11 • 1 Y
Y by GeoKing
Look at this in terms of graphs. The country is like a complete graph on $n$ vertices and the airlines are like coloring each edge in one of two colors - Blue or Red. So, what we need is the maximum value $n$ for which it is possible for the mathematician to take a cycle composed of only black or only white edges. We claim that the answer is $4$.

Note that, if we partition the edges into two groups as red and blue, each group must be acyclic (or else it is possible for the mathematician to pass through only edges of one color and return to where she started). But, we know that a tree on at most $n$ vertices has at most $n-1$ edges. Thus, each of these groups can have at most $n-1$ edges. On the other hand $K_n$ clear has $\binom{n}{2}$ edges and thus,
\[\frac{n(n-1)}{2} \leq 2(n-1)\]from which we conclude that $n\leq 4$ as desired.

Simply consider the following graph as a construction for $n=4$,
Attachments:
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by cursed_tangent1434, Jan 14, 2024, 6:10 AM
Reason: image
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joshualiu315
2513 posts
#12
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The answer is $\boxed{n=4}$. Consider a graph $K_n$ with each edge colored red or blue. Neither monochromatic graph has a cycle, so each one has at most $n-1$ edges. Hence,

\[\binom{n}{2} \le 2(n-1) \implies n \le 4,\]
which is easily constructed.
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Markas
105 posts
#13
Y by
If $n \geq 6$ there are three edges coming tru a single vertex in the same color, because of Dirihlet. Now the edges connecting the edges with the same color, should be colored in the other color leading to getting a monochromatic triangle - impossible. If n = 5, after bruteforcing the cases there is either a monochromatic triangle or pentagon, contradiction. For n = 4, the coloring is easy: if $K_4$ is square-like we color 3 of its sides with red and the other edges with blue $\Rightarrow$ $n \geq 5$, doesn't work and we show n = 4 work $\Rightarrow$ n = 4.
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Marcus_Zhang
970 posts
#14
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Solution
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Marcus_Zhang, Mar 29, 2025, 6:13 PM
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