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k a May Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
May 1, 2025
May is an exciting month! National MATHCOUNTS is the second week of May in Washington D.C. and our Founder, Richard Rusczyk will be presenting a seminar, Preparing Strong Math Students for College and Careers, on May 11th.

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0 replies
jlacosta
May 1, 2025
0 replies
Inequalities
sqing   13
N 33 minutes ago by sqing
Let $ a,b,c>0 , a+b+c +abc=4$. Prove that
$$ \frac {a}{a^2+2}+\frac {b}{b^2+2}+\frac {c}{c^2+2} \leq 1$$Let $ a,b,c>0 , ab+bc+ca+abc=4$. Prove that
$$ \frac {a}{a^2+2}+\frac {b}{b^2+2}+\frac {c}{c^2+2} \leq 1$$
13 replies
sqing
May 15, 2025
sqing
33 minutes ago
Geomettry ez
AnhIsGod   1
N 2 hours ago by Soupboy0
Let two circles (O) and (O') intersect at two points (one of which is called A). The common tangent CD (with C belonging to (O) and D belonging to (O')) lies on the same side as A with respect to the line OO', intersecting OO' at S. The line segment SA intersects circle (O) at E (different from A). Prove that EC is parallel to AD.
1 reply
AnhIsGod
3 hours ago
Soupboy0
2 hours ago
Trapezium problem very nice
manlio   0
5 hours ago
Given trapezium ABCD with basis AB and CD parallel. Choose a point E on side BC and a point F on side AD such that AE Is parallel to FC . Prove that DE Is parallel to FB.
0 replies
manlio
5 hours ago
0 replies
Minimum and Maximum of Complex Numbers
pythagorazz   1
N Today at 8:39 AM by alexheinis
Let $a,b,$ and $c$ be complex numbers. For a complex number $z=p+qi$ where $i=\sqrt(-1)$, define the norm $|z|$ to be the distance of $z$ from the origin, or $|z|=\sqrt(p^2+q^2 )$. Let $m$ be the minimum value and $M$ be the maximum value of $\frac{(|a+b|+|b+c|+|c+a|)}{(|a|+|b|+|c| )}$ for all complex numbers $a,b,c$ where $|a|+|b|+|c|\ne 0$. Find $M+m$.
1 reply
pythagorazz
Apr 14, 2025
alexheinis
Today at 8:39 AM
No more topics!
AoPS Volume 2, Problem 262
Shiyul   12
N Apr 15, 2025 by bhavanal
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

12 replies
Shiyul
Apr 9, 2025
bhavanal
Apr 15, 2025
AoPS Volume 2, Problem 262
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Shiyul
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#1
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Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.
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bhavanal
38 posts
#2
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$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{k + 1}(x) = f(g_k(x))$

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_k$ is the average of the roots of $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_k$

....

So we know that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{k + 1}(x) = f(g_k(x))$

Let's just write some random stuff down!

From this info we can conclude that:

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{2}(x) = f(g_1(x))$ .. but wait, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_1(x) = f(x)$ ..

that means $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{2}(x) = f(f(x))$ .. and looking at

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{3}(x) = f(g_2(x))$ , we can see that there is a pattern to

$\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_n(x)$ = the repeated composition of f(x) n times.

So that means that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_{19}(x) = f(f(f....(x)))))))))))))))))))$ , where the ... represents the continuation of the 19 f's. This simplifies our problem some.

Let f(x) =\[\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} f(x) = a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0 \]If we perform\[g_2\], we get\[a_n (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0)^n + a_{n - 1} (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0)^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 (a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} x^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0) + a_0\]
Whoa, that's messy. The problem talks about the average of roots, so we need to find the sum of roots of these big equations. We can use vietas to conclude that for a polynomial with in the form f(x) =\[a_n x^n + a_{n - 1} a^{n - 1} + \dots + a_1 x + a_0\], the sum is\[\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}\].. However, when the composition occurs, how will the sum change?

We look at a few smaller polynomials to observe this change. Click to reveal hidden text

So we see performing this composition, turn the original sum of the roots 2, to 4.

We see that this is true, since our original function could be factored into (x-1)(x-1) .. performing the composition, and disregarding all terms except the ones with the highest and second highest powers gives us\[((x-1)(x-1))^2\]= (x-1)(x-1)(x-1)(x-1) .. so it adds on another sets. So for whatever sum is there originally, gets multiplied by n, where n is the degree of the polynomial.

That means the sum of the roots of\[g_n(x)\]=\[\frac{-(a_{n-1}(n))}{a_n}\]that means the average of the roots is simply\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1}(n))}{a_n}}{n^n}\], which simplifies to:

\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\]..

Well what do we do now? Lets try the same method we did here to prove that\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\], to see how repeated composition of a single function affects the average of the roots.

Let's take the equation

\[q(x)\]=\[x^2 - 6x + 5\]..

the sum of the polynomial is 6 by using vietas, so the average is 3. performing\[q_2(x)\], and only taking in account the x^2, we get

\[(x^2 - 6x + 5)^2\].. multiplying this out, and taking only in account the x^4 and x^3 terms, we get\[x^4 - 12x^3 ..\].. we see that the sum of the roots of this is 12, but since there were originally 2 roots, and we squared this polynomial when performing composition, we got 4 roots instead since by the fundamental theorem of algebra a polynomial with nth degree has n roots.

That means 12/4 = 3. So the average of the roots of this new polynomial is still 3!

After plugging in the respetive coefficients into our equation:
\[r_n\]=\[\frac{\frac{-(a_{n-1})}{a_n}}{n^(n-1)}\]we can verify that the average of the roots will stay the same despite repeated composition.

Thus, the average of the roots of $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}g_k$ is the same for all values of k.

Thus $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_{19}$ = $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}r_{89}$ = 89
just use the solution
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Shiyul
22 posts
#3 • 4 Y
Y by anduran, aidan0626, Sedro, ap246
Sir, I think you have the wrong problem.
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bhavanal
38 posts
#4
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who is sir. I am a girl
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Marrelia
138 posts
#5
Y by
Shiyul wrote:
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

hint
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bhavanal
38 posts
#6
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um ok? ig
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Shiyul
22 posts
#7
Y by
Alright, I will keep that in mind. Thank you!
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Alex-131
5391 posts
#8
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Shiyul wrote:
Given that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_1=2$, $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_2=4$ and $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35} v_{n+1}=3v_n-v_{n-1}$, prove that $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}v_n=2F_{2n-1}$, where the terms $\color[rgb]{0.35,0.35,0.35}F_n$ are the Fibonacci numbers.

Can anyone give me hint on how to solve this (not solve the full problem). I'm not sure how to relate the v series to the Fibonacci sequence.

Try strong induction, i.e. base case is trivial. Suppose for n, and numbers less than n, that v_n = 2F_{2n-1}, and show that v_{n+1} = 2F_{2n+1}. This is easy to work with as we have a recursive form for v_{n+1}. But post 5 also works too.
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Shiyul
22 posts
#9
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Can you give me another hint? I have absolute no idea how I would do induction.
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Alex-131
5391 posts
#10 • 1 Y
Y by Shiyul
Shiyul wrote:
Can you give me another hint? I have absolute no idea how I would do induction.

read this: https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs103/cs103.1142/lectures/03/Small03.pdf

It seems like a good introduction to induction. Essentially
v_{n+1} = 3v_n - v_{n-1} = 6F_{2n-1} - 2F_{2n-3}. Now we want to show this is equal to 2F_{2n+3} so try finding an expression for 2F_{2n+3} that has F_{2n-1} and F_{2n-3} (use Fibonnaci recursion)
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Shiyul
22 posts
#11
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Sorry, I worded that wrong. I know what induction is, but I was just unsure on how to apply it here. Thanks for answering both questions, Alex-131!
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Shiyul
22 posts
#12
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Okay, I finished solving this problem. Thanks for all your help, Alex! Hope you have a great life
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bhavanal
38 posts
#13
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hope u have a great life wut on earth
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