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k a July Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jwelsh   0
Jul 1, 2025
We are halfway through summer, so be sure to carve out some time to keep your skills sharp and explore challenging topics at AoPS Online and our AoPS Academies (including the Virtual Campus)!

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[*]AMC Problem Series[/list]
[*]Plus, AoPS Online has a special seminar July 14 - 17 that is outside the standard fare: Paradoxes and Infinity
[*]We are expanding our in-person AoPS Academy locations - are you looking for a strong community of problem solvers, exemplary instruction, and math and language arts options? Look to see if we have a location near you and enroll in summer camps or academic year classes today! New locations include campuses in California, Georgia, New York, Illinois, and Oregon and more coming soon![/list]

MOP (Math Olympiad Summer Program) just ended and the IMO (International Mathematical Olympiad) is right around the corner! This year’s IMO will be held in Australia, July 10th - 20th. Congratulations to all the MOP students for reaching this incredible level and best of luck to all selected to represent their countries at this year’s IMO! Did you know that, in the last 10 years, 59 USA International Math Olympiad team members have medaled and have taken over 360 AoPS Online courses. Take advantage of our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training (WOOT) courses
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0 replies
jwelsh
Jul 1, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
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What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
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Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Number of positive divisors
Provyfx   0
6 minutes ago
How many positive even factors does $2016$ have?
0 replies
Provyfx
6 minutes ago
0 replies
9 MathDash
booking   19
N 42 minutes ago by melloncandy
If you pay for MathDash, specifically lessons, could you please give feedback below?
19 replies
booking
Jul 6, 2025
melloncandy
42 minutes ago
Factorial fraction
Silverfalcon   41
N an hour ago by Amazingatmath.com
$\frac{(3!)!}{3!} =$

$\text{(A)}\ 1 \qquad \text{(B)}\ 2 \qquad \text{(C)}\ 6\qquad \text{(D)}\ 40\qquad \text{(E)}\ 120$
41 replies
Silverfalcon
Nov 21, 2005
Amazingatmath.com
an hour ago
Bogus Proof Marathon
pifinity   7752
N an hour ago by valenbb
Hi!
I'd like to introduce the Bogus Proof Marathon.

In this marathon, simply post a bogus proof that is middle-school level and the next person will find the error. You don't have to post the real solution :P

Use classic Marathon format:
[hide=P#]a1b2c3[/hide]
[hide=S#]a1b2c3[/hide]


Example posts:

P(x)
-----
S(x)
P(x+1)
-----
Let's go!! Just don't make it too hard!
7752 replies
pifinity
Mar 12, 2018
valenbb
an hour ago
Random but useful theorems
booking   99
N an hour ago by mduong
There have been all these random but useful theorems
Please post any theorems you know, random or not, but please say whether they are random or not.
I'll start give an example:
Random
I am just looking for some theorems to study.
99 replies
booking
Jul 16, 2025
mduong
an hour ago
A little fun,
AlexCenteno2007   16
N 3 hours ago by Ravensrule8
Let ABCD be a trapeze with AD ∥ BC. M and N are the midpoints of CD and BC
respectively, and P is the common point of the lines AM and DN. If PM/AP = 4, show that
ABCD is a parallelogram.
16 replies
AlexCenteno2007
Jul 22, 2025
Ravensrule8
3 hours ago
A Simply CheRUBIC Problem (2025 NCJMO #1)
peace09   16
N 4 hours ago by sadas123
Cerena, Faith, Edna, and Veronica each have a cube. Aarnő knows that the side lengths of each of their cubes are distinct integers greater than $1$, and he is trying to guess their exact values. Each girl fully paints the surface of her cube in Carolina blue before splitting the entire cube into $1\times1\times1$ cubes. Then, [list=disc]
[*] Cerena reveals how many of her $1\times1\times1$ cubes have exactly $0$ blue faces.
[*] Faith reveals how many of her $1\times1\times1$ cubes have exactly $1$ blue faces.
[*] Edna reveals how many of her $1\times1\times1$ cubes have exactly $2$ blue faces.
[*] Veronica reveals how many of her $1\times1\times1$ cubes have exactly $3$ blue faces.
[/list] Whose side lengths can Aarnő deduce from these statements?

Jason Lee
16 replies
peace09
Jan 11, 2025
sadas123
4 hours ago
The 24 Game, but with a twist!
PikaPika999   431
N 5 hours ago by PikaPika999
So many people know the 24 game, where you try to create the number 24 from using other numbers, but here's a twist:

You can only use the number 24 (up to 5 times) to try to make other numbers :)

the limit is 5 times because then people could just do $\frac{24}{24}+\frac{24}{24}+\frac{24}{24}+...$ and so on to create any number!

honestly, I feel like with only addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, you can't get pretty far with this, so you can use any mathematical operations!

Banned functions
431 replies
PikaPika999
Jul 1, 2025
PikaPika999
5 hours ago
sum parts of circle
rod16   2
N 5 hours ago by rod16
The radius of the circle is $R=2,5\sqrt{5}$. Let the two perpendicular chords be AB and CD. They intersect at point P.
Let the vertical chord AB be divided into segments $AP=8$ and $PB=3$.
Let the horizontal chord CD be divided into segments $CP=6$ and $PD=4$.
Find sum of areas CPB and APD. Some tricky solution?
2 replies
rod16
Yesterday at 5:54 PM
rod16
5 hours ago
I need your help
Mr_adjective   3
N 5 hours ago by PikaPika999
how do you use aops?
3 replies
Mr_adjective
5 hours ago
PikaPika999
5 hours ago
AMC registrations.
sasu1ke   1
N 6 hours ago by DavineChen
How to register for amc 8 via TLUPS?Please help.A kid is interested in amc 8 however the school is not a partner.Will TLUPS be good.Also how to register for JMC and Gauss contest and Kangaroo etc.
1 reply
sasu1ke
6 hours ago
DavineChen
6 hours ago
9 MathCounts prep
ericheathclifffry   25
N Yesterday at 4:49 PM by SunnieBunnie
Redacted
25 replies
ericheathclifffry
Jul 21, 2025
SunnieBunnie
Yesterday at 4:49 PM
Canceling Powers of 10
AIME15   31
N Yesterday at 4:44 PM by booking
$ \frac{10^7}{5 \times 10^4}=$

\[ \textbf{(A)}\ .002 \qquad
\textbf{(B)}\ .2 \qquad
\textbf{(C)}\ 20 \qquad
\textbf{(D)}\ 200 \qquad
\textbf{(E)}\ 2000
\]
31 replies
AIME15
Jan 12, 2009
booking
Yesterday at 4:44 PM
Square root and fraction
Silverfalcon   24
N Yesterday at 4:37 PM by booking
$\sqrt{\frac{1}{9} + \frac{1}{16}} =$

$\textbf{(A)}\ \frac15 \qquad
\textbf{(B)}\ \frac14 \qquad
\textbf{(C)}\ \frac27 \qquad
\textbf{(D)}\ \frac{5}{12} \qquad
\textbf{(E)}\ \frac{7}{12}$
24 replies
Silverfalcon
Oct 22, 2005
booking
Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Quick Question
b2025tyx   13
N May 22, 2025 by b2025tyx
During my math final today at school, the question said stated "When every integer is raised to the power of zero, it is equal to 1". The answers were multiple choice and were : Always, sometimes, never, and I don't know.

I ended up putting the first one, and was informed that it was incorrect. My teacher told me that $0^0$ is not equal to one. I looked it up, and it said $0^0 = 1$. Can someone confirm and prove this. Thanks!
13 replies
b2025tyx
May 20, 2025
b2025tyx
May 22, 2025
Quick Question
G H J
G H BBookmark kLocked kLocked NReply
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b2025tyx
1492 posts
#1
Y by
During my math final today at school, the question said stated "When every integer is raised to the power of zero, it is equal to 1". The answers were multiple choice and were : Always, sometimes, never, and I don't know.

I ended up putting the first one, and was informed that it was incorrect. My teacher told me that $0^0$ is not equal to one. I looked it up, and it said $0^0 = 1$. Can someone confirm and prove this. Thanks!
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LuminousWolverine
254 posts
#2
Y by
yeah, im pretty sure any positive integer to the power of 0 is 1. I have seen proof on many websites, so I dont know why ur teacher said that...
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CJB19
178 posts
#3
Y by
Arr0w wrote:
Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

From the "A Letter to MSM" thread
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by CJB19, May 20, 2025, 7:34 PM
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SapphireKitty
1034 posts
#6
Y by
Well if it's super debated I'd say it's probably not a great test question...................
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ultimatehero
301 posts
#7
Y by
this is a cool thread on the topic: https://www.askamathematician.com/2010/12/q-what-does-00-zero-raised-to-the-zeroth-power-equal-why-do-mathematicians-and-high-school-teachers-disagree/
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CJB19
178 posts
#8
Y by
Some contexts define it as undefined but in a lot of contexts it equals 1 so I think your teacher is wrong
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by CJB19, May 20, 2025, 7:47 PM
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anticodon
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#9
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AoPS Prealgebra stated something along the lines of "Since there is a lot of controversy on the subject of the value of $0^0$, we will avoid using such notation"

I guess it could depend on how you look at the problem
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RocketScientist
372 posts
#10
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$0^0$ is generally accepted as $1$ because it makes some calculations easier. But in other contexts, it's indeterminate.
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K1mchi_
189 posts
#11
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b2025tyx wrote:
During my math final today at school, the question said stated "When every integer is raised to the power of zero, it is equal to 1". The answers were multiple choice and were : Always, sometimes, never, and I don't know.

I ended up putting the first one, and was informed that it was incorrect. My teacher told me that $0^0$ is not equal to one. I looked it up, and it said $0^0 = 1$. Can someone confirm and prove this. Thanks!
Arr0w wrote:
“…the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.”
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b2025tyx
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#13
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Does anyone have an actual proof?
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char0221
170 posts
#14
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Just purely from a combinatorics perspective, there is one way to pick zero objects out of zero objects (not choosing any still can count).
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anticodon
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#15
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if 0/0=1, we have
$\frac{0}{0}+\frac{0}{0}=1+1=2$

edit: we also have
$1+\frac{0}{0}=\frac{1}{1}+\frac{0}{0}=\frac{0+0}{0}=0$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by anticodon, May 22, 2025, 3:38 PM
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Andrew2019
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#17
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b2025tyx wrote:
Does anyone have an actual proof?

i believe $0^0$ is defined as 1
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b2025tyx
1492 posts
#18
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anticodon wrote:
if 0/0=1, we have
$\frac{0}{0}+\frac{0}{0}=1+1=2$

edit: we also have
$1+\frac{0}{0}=\frac{1}{1}+\frac{0}{0}=\frac{0+0}{0}=0$

I am asking for $0^0$ not the division between the two
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