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k a July Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jwelsh   0
Jul 1, 2025
We are halfway through summer, so be sure to carve out some time to keep your skills sharp and explore challenging topics at AoPS Online and our AoPS Academies (including the Virtual Campus)!

[list][*]Over 60 summer classes are starting at the Virtual Campus on July 7th - check out the math and language arts options for middle through high school levels.
[*]At AoPS Online, we have accelerated sections where you can complete a course in half the time by meeting twice/week instead of once/week, starting on July 8th:
[list][*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics
[*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced
[*]AMC Problem Series[/list]
[*]Plus, AoPS Online has a special seminar July 14 - 17 that is outside the standard fare: Paradoxes and Infinity
[*]We are expanding our in-person AoPS Academy locations - are you looking for a strong community of problem solvers, exemplary instruction, and math and language arts options? Look to see if we have a location near you and enroll in summer camps or academic year classes today! New locations include campuses in California, Georgia, New York, Illinois, and Oregon and more coming soon![/list]

MOP (Math Olympiad Summer Program) just ended and the IMO (International Mathematical Olympiad) is right around the corner! This year’s IMO will be held in Australia, July 10th - 20th. Congratulations to all the MOP students for reaching this incredible level and best of luck to all selected to represent their countries at this year’s IMO! Did you know that, in the last 10 years, 59 USA International Math Olympiad team members have medaled and have taken over 360 AoPS Online courses. Take advantage of our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training (WOOT) courses
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0 replies
jwelsh
Jul 1, 2025
0 replies
J
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k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*} \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1} \end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*} a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\ a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\ a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\ a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\ \frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\ \frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\ \frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0). \end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*} z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\ z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0 \end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
J
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k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
J
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k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
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What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
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Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
J
H
a cute combinatorics (?) problem
pzzd   4
N an hour ago by maromex
here’s a cute little problem that can be solved with combinatorics, but is also related to some very common sequences in mathematics :3

say you have a $2$-inch-wide rectangle of some length $l$, and a bunch of $2$x$1$ dominos. how many different ways can you completely cover the rectangle with dominos? you can place the dominos horizontally or vertically - for example, for a $2$-by-$3$ rectangle, a valid arrangement of dominos is $1$ vertical domino on the left and $2$ horizontal dominos on the right.

hope you find this interesting!
4 replies
pzzd
Today at 2:48 PM
maromex
an hour ago
J
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The 24 Game, but with a twist!
PikaPika999   282
N 2 hours ago by PreciseScorpion58
So many people know the 24 game, where you try to create the number 24 from using other numbers, but here's a twist:

You can only use the number 24 (up to 5 times) to try to make other numbers :)

the limit is 5 times because then people could just do $\frac{24}{24}+\frac{24}{24}+\frac{24}{24}+...$ and so on to create any number!

honestly, I feel like with only addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, you can't get pretty far with this, so you can use any mathematical operations!
282 replies
PikaPika999
Jul 1, 2025
PreciseScorpion58
2 hours ago
J
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Trigonometry equation practice
ehz2701   6
N 2 hours ago by vanstraelen
There is a lack of trigonometric bash practice, and I want to see techniques to do these problems. So here are 10 kinds of problems that are usually out in the wild. How do you tackle these problems? (I had ChatGPT write a code for this.). Please give me some general techniques to solve these kinds of problems, especially set 2b. I’ll add more later.

Leaderboard

problem set 1a

problem set 2a

problem set 2b
answers 2b

General techniques so far:

Trick 1: one thing to keep in mind is

[center] $\frac{1}{2} = \cos 36 - \sin 18$. [/center]

Many of these seem to be reducible to this. The half can be written as $\cos 60 = \sin 30$, and $\cos 36 = \sin 54$, $\sin 18 = \cos 72$. This is proven in solution 1a-1. We will refer to this as Trick 1.
6 replies
ehz2701
Yesterday at 8:48 AM
vanstraelen
2 hours ago
J
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9 zeroes!.
ericheathclifffry   57
N 2 hours ago by ninaxu88
Redacted
57 replies
ericheathclifffry
May 5, 2025
ninaxu88
2 hours ago
J
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how to get to nats mathcounts
Ayaansh24   13
N 3 hours ago by Spacepandamath13
Hello, I am going into 6th grade next yr, and I really wanna get to nats mathcounts. I live in colorado, and my scores are:
2023 - 2024: 4th grade amc 8: 12
2024 - 2025: 5th grade amc 8: 15 (silled)
2024 - 2025: 5th grade amc 10b (couldnt take 10a): 58.5
2024-2025: 5th grade purple comet my team and i got 7/20 (4 people, all 5th graders)
I get 25 on chapter competetion sprint and 16 on target.
I get 19-20 on state sprint and 12 - 14 on target.
I get 10 - 12 on nat sprint and 10 on target.
I also silly a lot and usually can't spend much time on the last few questions because of time.
I take past tests, watch vids, have 25 nats on mc trainer, weak at geometry, and spend 1 hr on math each day. Do you have any advice for me to get to nats?
13 replies
Ayaansh24
Jun 28, 2025
Spacepandamath13
3 hours ago
J
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9 Favorite topic
A7456321   234
N 3 hours ago by Inaaya
What is your favorite math topic/subject?

If you don't know why you are here, go binge watch something!

If you forgot why you are here, go to a hospital! :)

If you know why you are here and have voted, maybe say why you picked the option that you picked in a response) :thumbup:

CLICK ON ME YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO

Timeline
234 replies
A7456321
May 23, 2025
Inaaya
3 hours ago
J
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Easy geometry problem
menseggerofgod   5
N 4 hours ago by ehz2701
ABC is a right triangle, right at B, in which the height BD is drawn. E is a point on side BC such that AE = EC = 8. If BD is 6 and DE = k , find k
5 replies
menseggerofgod
Today at 2:47 AM
ehz2701
4 hours ago
J
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Geometry easy
AlexCenteno2007   4
N 4 hours ago by AlexCenteno2007
In triangle ABC, if angle B=120°, AB=5u and BC=15u. Draw the interior bisector BE. Calculate BE
4 replies
AlexCenteno2007
Friday at 10:55 PM
AlexCenteno2007
4 hours ago
J
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Worst math problems
LXC007   95
N 5 hours ago by Inaaya
What is the most egregiously bad problem or solution you have encountered in school?
95 replies
LXC007
May 21, 2025
Inaaya
5 hours ago
J
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Private Forum for Geometry Study
fossasor   239
N 6 hours ago by nitride
Hi all,

I've recently been trying to improve my skill at competition math, but I consistently struggle with geometry. Since doing math is more fun and motivating with others, I've created the GeoPrepClub. This is a private forum to increase geometry skill and help others increase theirs: we'll have problems, marathons, and much more. This is similar to forums such as "AMC8 Prep Buddies" by PatTheKing, but is focused exclusively on this subject. We welcome all skill levels and hope those with greater mathematical knowledge can assist those lacking in it.

If this sounds interesting to you, sing up below and I'll let you know once I've added you. Although the forum may not have much now, that's because I've only just released it, and I hope once I build a community, It will be a very useful and motivating space for those interested in improving their geometry. The link is
here.

I look forward to seeing you all in the forum!
239 replies
fossasor
Jun 10, 2025
nitride
6 hours ago
J
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How to bisect a angle
Ryanzzz   5
N Today at 3:55 PM by PikaPika999
Let angle A be our angle. We can grab a compass and draw a circle around point A of any radius. Next, we look at the 2 points that lie on the rays that make angle A. Let the points be X and Y. First, we draw another circle on Y, and when it intersects with ray AX, we stop. Now, we do the same with X. Now, we connect the point where the 2 arcs cross( call it point Z) with A. You will find that XAZ is congruent to YAZ
5 replies
Ryanzzz
Yesterday at 5:21 PM
PikaPika999
Today at 3:55 PM
J
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Foil
Silverfalcon   30
N Today at 3:13 PM by PikaPika999
$(1+x^2)(1-x^3)$ equals

$ \text{(A)}\ 1 - x^5\qquad\text{(B)}\ 1 - x^6\qquad\text{(C)}\ 1+ x^2 -x^3\qquad \\ \text{(D)}\ 1+x^2-x^3-x^5\qquad \text{(E)}\ 1+x^2-x^3-x^6 $
30 replies
Silverfalcon
Oct 21, 2005
PikaPika999
Today at 3:13 PM
J
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problem that i thought of while eating kfc on a train
iwastedmyusername   19
N Today at 2:36 PM by SpeedCuber7
Let $F_n$ be the $n$th Fibonacci number. What is the value of $\sum_{i=1}^{\infty} \frac{F_i}{4^i}=\frac{F_1}{4}+\frac{F_2}{16}+\frac{F_3}{64}+...$?
19 replies
iwastedmyusername
Jul 2, 2025
SpeedCuber7
Today at 2:36 PM
J
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9 Square roots
A7456321   37
N Today at 2:34 PM by Beenzene_137
Me personally I only have $\sqrt2=1.414$ memorized but I'm sure there are people out there with more!
update: i recently learned $\sqrt3=1.732$

CLICK ON ME YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO
37 replies
A7456321
May 29, 2025
Beenzene_137
Today at 2:34 PM
J
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J
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Easy Function
Darealzolt   1
N Jun 6, 2025 by alexheinis
Let \( f(x+y) = f(x^2y)\) for all real numbers \(x,y\), hence find the value of \(f(3)\) if \(f(2023)=26\).
1 reply
Darealzolt
Jun 6, 2025
alexheinis
Jun 6, 2025
J
Easy Function
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Darealzolt
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Darealzolt
#1 h  Jun 6, 2025, 8:47 AM
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Let \( f(x+y) = f(x^2y)\) for all real numbers \(x,y\), hence find the value of \(f(3)\) if \(f(2023)=26\).
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alexheinis
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alexheinis
#2 h  Jun 6, 2025, 8:50 AM
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Take $y=0$ then $f(x)=f(0)$ and $f$ is constant. Hence $f(3)=26$.
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