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k a March Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jlacosta   0
Mar 2, 2025
March is the month for State MATHCOUNTS competitions! Kudos to everyone who participated in their local chapter competitions and best of luck to all going to State! Join us on March 11th for a Math Jam devoted to our favorite Chapter competition problems! Are you interested in training for MATHCOUNTS? Be sure to check out our AMC 8/MATHCOUNTS Basics and Advanced courses.

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Do you have plans this summer? There are so many options to fit your schedule and goals whether attending a summer camp or taking online classes, it can be a great break from the routine of the school year. Check out our summer courses at AoPS Online, or if you want a math or language arts class that doesn’t have homework, but is an enriching summer experience, our AoPS Virtual Campus summer camps may be just the ticket! We are expanding our locations for our AoPS Academies across the country with 15 locations so far and new campuses opening in Saratoga CA, Johns Creek GA, and the Upper West Side NY. Check out this page for summer camp information.

Be sure to mark your calendars for the following events:
[list][*]March 5th (Wednesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, HCSSiM Math Jam 2025. Amber Verser, Assistant Director of the Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics, will host an information session about HCSSiM, a summer program for high school students.
[*]March 6th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar on Math Competitions from elementary through high school. Join us for an enlightening session that demystifies the world of math competitions and helps you make informed decisions about your contest journey.
[*]March 11th (Tuesday), 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET, 2025 MATHCOUNTS Chapter Discussion MATH JAM. AoPS instructors will discuss some of their favorite problems from the MATHCOUNTS Chapter Competition. All are welcome!
[*]March 13th (Thursday), 4:00pm PT/7:00pm ET, Free Webinar about Summer Camps at the Virtual Campus. Transform your summer into an unforgettable learning adventure! From elementary through high school, we offer dynamic summer camps featuring topics in mathematics, language arts, and competition preparation - all designed to fit your schedule and ignite your passion for learning.[/list]
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0 replies
jlacosta
Mar 2, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
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What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
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How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Weird family of sequences
AndreiVila   7
N 21 minutes ago by kamatadu
Source: Romanian District Olympiad 2025 12.3
[list=a]
[*] Let $a<b$ and $f:[a,b]\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ be a strictly monotonous function such that $\int_a^b f(x) dx=0$. Show that $f(a)\cdot f(b)<0$.
[*] Find all convergent sequences $(a_n)_{n\geq 1}$ for which there exists a scrictly monotonous function $f:\mathbb{R}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ such that $$\int_{a_{n-1}}^{a_n} f(x)dx = \int_{a_n}^{a_{n+1}} f(x)dx,\text{ for all }n\geq 2.$$
7 replies
+1 w
AndreiVila
Mar 8, 2025
kamatadu
21 minutes ago
Putnam 2014 A4
Kent Merryfield   36
N 31 minutes ago by bjump
Suppose $X$ is a random variable that takes on only nonnegative integer values, with $E[X]=1,$ $E[X^2]=2,$ and $E[X^3]=5.$ (Here $E[Y]$ denotes the expectation of the random variable $Y.$) Determine the smallest possible value of the probability of the event $X=0.$
36 replies
1 viewing
Kent Merryfield
Dec 7, 2014
bjump
31 minutes ago
Sequence interesting problem
vickyricky   10
N an hour ago by kamatadu
Let $ a_{0} =1$ and $ b_{0} =1$ . Define $a_{n} , b_{n} $ for $ n\ge 1$ as $a_{n}=a_{n-1}+2b_{n-1} $ , $b_{n}=a_{n-1}+b_{n-1} $ . Prove that $\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{a_n}{b_n}$ exists and find it's value .
10 replies
vickyricky
Jun 6, 2020
kamatadu
an hour ago
Very nice Darboux epsilon-delta
CatalinBordea   1
N an hour ago by QQQ43
Source: Romanian National Olympiad 2000, Grade XI, Problem 4
Let $ f:\mathbb{R}\longrightarrow\mathbb{R} $ be a function that satisfies the conditions:
$ \text{(i)}\quad \lim_{x\to\infty} (f\circ f) (x) =\infty =-\lim_{x\to -\infty} (f\circ f) (x) $
$ \text{(ii)}\quad f $ has Darboux’s property

a) Prove that the limits of $ f $ at $ \pm\infty $ exist.
b) Is possible for the limits from a) to be finite?
1 reply
CatalinBordea
Oct 2, 2018
QQQ43
an hour ago
Calculator
junlongsun   18
N 2 hours ago by fruitmonster97
I have a Casio FX-9750GIII

I can't seem to get the equation solver to work, I'm mainly afraid of something similar to Chapter T8 appearing on states.

$y^2=1025-40x$
$x^2=1025-50y$

Does anyone with the model know how to get the calculator to solve the equation above?

Thanks
18 replies
junlongsun
Today at 2:37 AM
fruitmonster97
2 hours ago
ohio mathcounts state
Owinner   11
N 2 hours ago by bjump
what is the cutoff for cdr for ohio? Is ohio a competitve state?
11 replies
Owinner
Tuesday at 10:52 PM
bjump
2 hours ago
Camp Conway acceptance
fossasor   10
N 2 hours ago by jb2015007
Hello! I've just been accepted into Camp Conway, but I'm not sure how popular this camp actually is, given that it's new. Has anyone else applied/has been accepted/is going? (I'm trying to figure out to what degree this acceptance was just lack of qualified applicants, so I can better predict my chances of getting into my preferred math camp.)
10 replies
fossasor
Feb 20, 2025
jb2015007
2 hours ago
AMC 8 scores
megahertz13   8
N 2 hours ago by HenryJW
$\begin{tabular}{c|c|c|c|c|c|c|c|c}Username & Grade & AMC 8 \\ \hline
megahertz13 & 3 & 15 \
\end{tabular}$
8 replies
megahertz13
Apr 27, 2022
HenryJW
2 hours ago
9 AMC 8 Scores
ChromeRaptor777   87
N 2 hours ago by Yolandayu
As far as I'm certain, I think all AMC8 scores are already out. Vote above.
87 replies
ChromeRaptor777
Apr 1, 2022
Yolandayu
2 hours ago
Mathcounts 2012
junlongsun   7
N 3 hours ago by mpcnotnpc
Source 2012 S29:

For how many two-element subsets {a, b} of the set {1, 2, 3, . . . , 36} is the product ab a perfect square?

Does anyone have a quick solution?
7 replies
junlongsun
Today at 2:07 AM
mpcnotnpc
3 hours ago
AMC8 Honor Roll out??
LittleBacat   77
N Today at 11:33 AM by GYRAD0S
I searched up the honor roll number today for Amc8 2025, and it says that (in the AoPS WIKI), https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AMC_historical_results?srsltid=AfmBOoopyoLrmVTtrMLZRTlATAWrzQzjFDBrN-rg_zhAloy8H5YkhjHb)
-Honor Roll: 19
-Average: 11.74
-Top 2.5: 21
-Distinguished Honor Roll: 23.
I think this is correct! So like idk what did y'all get?
77 replies
LittleBacat
Feb 25, 2025
GYRAD0S
Today at 11:33 AM
PLS help me come up with a faster solution to this problem!
ilikemath247365   7
N Today at 4:41 AM by jkim0656
2023 National Sprint Problem 30

Let $M = \frac{9^{40,000}}{9^{200} - 2}$. If $M$ is rounded to the nearest integer and then divided by $100$, what is the remainder?
7 replies
ilikemath247365
Today at 4:18 AM
jkim0656
Today at 4:41 AM
AOPS course questions
GlitchyBoy   5
N Today at 4:11 AM by aoh11
Hi Aops,
I was wondering if an intro to algebra book from Aops is needed to take the intro to algebra b course
And would it be better to buy the book and just do it myself or take a course on AOPS for intro to algebra b?
I am aiming for aime and nats next year so what should I do?
is intro to algebra b, intro to c&p, and amc10 course enough or not?
and do intro to algebra b and intro to c&p help with mathcounts and AMC?
thank you!
5 replies
GlitchyBoy
Yesterday at 8:45 PM
aoh11
Today at 4:11 AM
which course should I take
GlitchyBoy   14
N Today at 4:05 AM by Leeoz
Hello AOPS community,
Should I take the Mathcounts/AMC8 Advanced course over the summer or the AMC 10 Intermediate course?
I'm a 7th grader who is aiming for DHR AMC 8 and AIME qual next year as well as nats mathcounts, but sillies a lot on some stuff.
Scores:
6th grade (2023-2024 year)
Mathcounts Chapter: 33 (21/12)
Mathcounts State: 19 (11/8)
AMC 8: 12 (idk how this happened)
didn't take AMC 10
7th grade (2024-2025 year, so right now)
Mathcounts Chapter: 28 (36 w/o sillies)
Mathcounts State: a score higher than my chapter score (I cant reveal exact until April)
AMC 8: 16 (the problems were randomized cuz online)
AMC 10A: 42 (guessed too much)
AMC 10B: 58.5 (:facepalm:)
In practice AMC 8's I consistently get around 20-22, and on mock AMC 10's I get around 9-12 problems correct (so about low-mid 80s). In mock state Mathcounts I get 26-28s. Several people in my state have said I have a free nats qual next year due to all the competition graduating, but I am aiming for 34+ on state next year for insurance and to see how far I can go. I also hope to get DHR AMC 8 in 2026 and AIME, but not sure whether to take the AMC 8 advanced or AMC 10 course. Should I retake AMC 8 advanced (i took it last summer) to get really good basics or take AMC 10 course, and will the AMC 10 course help me get DHR amc8?
Thank you for your help, its greatly appreciated
please respond I'm begging.
14 replies
GlitchyBoy
Mar 10, 2025
Leeoz
Today at 4:05 AM
ISI 2018 #3
integrated_JRC   34
N Today at 7:08 AM by anudeep
Source: ISI 2018 B.Stat / B.Math Entrance Exam
Let $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function such that for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$ and for all $t\geqslant 0$, $$f(x)=f(e^tx)$$Show that $f$ is a constant function.
34 replies
integrated_JRC
May 13, 2018
anudeep
Today at 7:08 AM
ISI 2018 #3
G H J
Source: ISI 2018 B.Stat / B.Math Entrance Exam
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integrated_JRC
3465 posts
#1 • 3 Y
Y by ark2001, Adventure10, Mango247
Let $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function such that for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$ and for all $t\geqslant 0$, $$f(x)=f(e^tx)$$Show that $f$ is a constant function.
Z K Y
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alexheinis
10461 posts
#2 • 4 Y
Y by adityaguharoy, skyline_yi, AYSA02, Adventure10
Too easy. First choose $a>0$, then $f$ is constant on $[a,\infty)$. Let $a\downarrow 0$ to see that $f$ is constant on ${\bf R^+}$. By continuity $f$ is constant on $[0,\infty)$. In the same way, with $a<0$ one shows that $f$ is constant on $(-\infty,0]$. Hence $f$ is constant.
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by alexheinis, May 13, 2018, 11:04 AM
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Neo139
2 posts
#3 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Hey can't it be done by differentiating both sides?
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TomMarvoloRiddle
802 posts
#5 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Neo139 wrote:
Hey can't it be done by differentiating both sides?

No. It is not given that $f$ is differentiable.
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vickyricky
1893 posts
#6 • 3 Y
Y by ring_r, Adventure10, Mango247
By proving differentiability and then applying rolle's u will get infinitely many a such that f'(a)=0 Then function is constant .
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rayuga
27 posts
#7 • 3 Y
Y by ihaveaproblem2017, amar_04, Adventure10
Solution
This post has been edited 8 times. Last edited by rayuga, May 13, 2018, 7:27 PM
Reason: Latex
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adityaguharoy
4655 posts
#8 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
jrc1729 wrote:
Let $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function such that for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$ and for all $t\geqslant 0$, $$f(x)=f(e^tx)$$Show that $f$ is a constant function.

A generalization of this problem asks whether we can replace the $e^t$ by any varying continuous function of a specific class.
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Sayan
2130 posts
#9 • 11 Y
Y by integrated_JRC, adityaguharoy, Devarka, biomathematics, Vimath, gatterman, pankajsinha, Madhavi, EnigmaAlpha, Adventure10, Mango247
The equation is an overkill I think. Take $t=1$. We have $f(x)=f(ex)$ for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$. Fix $x_0\in\mathbb{R}$. Then
$$f(x_0)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e}\right)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^2}\right)=\cdots=\lim_{n\to \infty} f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^n}\right) = f(0)$$The last one is true by continuity.
Thus $f(x)=f(0)$ for all $x\in \mathbb{R}$. Hence $f$ is a constant.
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SPC4
7 posts
#10 • 3 Y
Y by Math_Renreal..., Adventure10, Mango247
But Sayan, it is not given that limit of f exists. We need to prove that f is one-one. And then we can use the limit. But how to prove that?
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Sayan
2130 posts
#11 • 2 Y
Y by adityaguharoy, Adventure10
The existence of limit comes from continuity not one-one. $y_n \to 0$ implies $f(y_n) \to f(0)$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Sayan, May 13, 2018, 6:04 PM
Reason: Error
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sagnikndp16
5 posts
#12 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
putting x=e^-t and x=1 we will get two values of f(1) and they are f(e^t) and f(e^-t)
as t>=0 e^t and e^-t covers the whole real number set which is the domain of f so f(1) is equal to f(r) that means it is an constant function
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by sagnikndp16, May 14, 2018, 4:09 AM
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Sayan
2130 posts
#13 • 4 Y
Y by rayuga, adityaguharoy, Adventure10, Mango247
sagnikndp16 wrote:
as t>=0 e^t and e^-t covers the whole real number set
They cover $(0,\infty)$ only
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polarLines
499 posts
#14 • 5 Y
Y by integrated_JRC, stranger_02, Fibonacci1123_-, Adventure10, Mango247
Put $x=1$ to get $f(e^t)=f(1)=c$ (say). So, $f(x)=c \forall x \in [1,\infty)$. Put $x=e^{-t}$ to get $f(e^{-t})=f(1)=c$. So, $f(x)=c\forall x\in (0,1]$. Hence, $f(x)=c\forall x\in (0,\infty)$.

Put $x=-1$ to get $f(-e^t)=f(-1)=k$ (say). So, $f(x)=k \forall x \in (-\infty,-1]$. Put $x=-e^{-t}$ to get $f(-e^{-t})=f(-1)=k$. So, $f(x)=k\forall x\in [-1,0)$. Hence, $f(x)=k\forall x\in (-\infty,0)$.

By continuity, $f(0)=\lim_{x\to 0^-} f(x)=\lim_{x\to 0^+} f(x)\implies f(0)=c=k$
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by polarLines, Apr 18, 2019, 6:16 AM
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#15 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
it can be represented in the form of first principle of derivative then proving it to be 0
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integrated_JRC
3465 posts
#16 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Ishaan600 wrote:
it can be represented in the form of first principle of derivative then proving it to be 0
No you can't. Because, it's not given if $f$ is differentiable or not. :roll:
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#17 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
i am not differentiating
first principle auto proves it
replace (e^t)x by x+k
since it is continuous take limit k to 0
then it is done
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by LordofAngaband, May 15, 2018, 5:46 PM
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bmwi8
2 posts
#18 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
$f(x) = f(e^tx)
$
Partially differentiate w/ respect to t to get:
$\ [f'(x)]'_{t} = e^t[f(e^tx)]_{t}'$
$\ \implies [f(e^tx)]'_t = lim_{\lambda \to 0} \frac{f(e^{t+\lambda}x) - f(x)}{\lambda}=0$
$\ \implies lim _{x_2 \to x_1}  \frac{f(x_2)-f(x_1)}{ln(\frac{x_1}{x_1})}=0 $ where $\ x_2 = x_1e^\lambda, $ and as $\ \lambda \to 0, e ^\lambda \to 1, x_2 \to x_1 $
$$\ lim_{x_2 \to x_1} \frac {\frac {f(x_2)-f(x_1)} {x_2-x_1}} {\frac {ln x_2 - ln x_1}{x_2-x_1}} = \frac{f'(x_1)}{\frac{1}{x_1}}=0 
 \implies f'(x_1) = 0 \forall x_1 \in R $$Q.E.D.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by bmwi8, May 15, 2018, 6:24 PM
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#19 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
i think first principle is better since the function is given to be continuous hence limit is applicable differentiation at first step may be wrong
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ArijitSinha
3 posts
#20 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
alexheinis wrote:
Too easy. First choose $a>0$, then $f$ is constant on $[a,\infty)$. Let $a\downarrow 0$ to see that $f$ is constant on ${\bf R^+}$. By continuity $f$ is constant on $[0,\infty)$. In the same way, with $a<0$ one shows that $f$ is constant on $(-\infty,0]$. Hence $f$ is constant.

Yup. Now f(x) is continuous at x=0. So , eventually f(x)=k all over R.
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pratyushjain
2 posts
#21 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
guys , i have done the question by writing a story, and i am not even sure i have proved what was asked or not . tell if there is any way i can get partial credits for this method :
solution : lets prove it by contradiction. Therefore acc to question f(x) = f(e^t x) = k for some pairs (x,t) and f(x) = f(e^t x) = m for atleast one pair (x,t) where k not equal to m if f is not a const. function . Lets prove it by induction . Without loss of generality , we will consider x const. and prove this result for any value of t and then keeping t const. and varying x with the help of induction on 2 variables, we will say that above result is true. consider x= const. now consider set t varying from say (0 p) , 0 included for any value of p satisfying f(x) = f(e^t x) = k . now consider p+e where e tends to 0+ ( e is very close to 0). acc. to question the above condition is satisfied for all t >= 0 and if it satisifies for set (0 p) , then it must satisfy for p+e as well. and hence by induction on real variables we can say that f(x) = f(e^t x) = k is true for all t >= 0 or there is no value of t for which f(x) = f(e^t x) = m where k not equal to m . similarly taking t = const. and taking set x to be say set of values ranging ( -q. q ) and proving arguments similarly by taking -q-e and q+e seperately , we get this for x as well and hence by induction on 2 variables we are done.
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#22 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
the problem is done away
the condition of continuity here forces differentiability
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pratyushjain
2 posts
#23 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
ishaan i didnt get what u mean . i understand the exact solution but i am asking abt mine .
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#24 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
my solution is the most simple i have seen
we take f(x) to other side and divide by e^t-x for some t which we define in next step, we take limit t approaching 0
then write e^t(x) as x+k where k also approaches 0 now the side auto transforms to a limit which exists and is 0 for all x
and the limit is definition of first principle which exists (as the function is cont ) and vanishes at every x hence the function never changes ie a contant
This post has been edited 2 times. Last edited by LordofAngaband, May 27, 2018, 8:54 PM
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Crazywithmath
35 posts
#25 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
It was my method too
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jjagmath
1016 posts
#27 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
For $t \le 0, f(e^t x) = f(e^{-t} (e^{t} x)) = f(x)$, so the condition is valid for all $t$.
For $x>0$, $f(x) = f(e^{\log(1/x)} x) = f(1)$. $f$ is constant in $\mathbb{R}^+$.
For $x<0$, $f(x) = f(e^{\log(-1/x)} x) = f(-1)$. $f$ is constant in $\mathbb{R}^-$.
$f$ is continuous, so $f$ is constant.
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Butterfly
567 posts
#28 • 3 Y
Y by zetayh, Adventure10, Mango247
$\textbf{Proof}$

Take $t=1$. Then for any fixed $r \in \mathbb{R}$, it's clear that $$f(r)=f \left(\frac{r}{e}\right)=f \left(\frac{r}{e^{2}}\right)=f \left(\frac{r}{e^{3}}\right)=\cdots=f \left(\frac{r}{e^{n}}\right).$$Take the limits of both sides as $n \to \infty$. Notice that $\dfrac{r}{e^n} \to 0$ as $n \to \infty$. By the continuity of $f(x)$, we have $$f(r)=\lim_{n \to \infty}f(r)=\lim_{n \to \infty}f \left(\frac{r}{e^{n}}\right)=f\left(\lim_{n \to \infty}\frac{r}{e^{n}}\right)=f(0).$$This shows that $f(x) \equiv f(0)$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Butterfly, May 30, 2018, 2:06 AM
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LordofAngaband
468 posts
#29 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
the beauty i find in this question is that all different correct methods all have a similar underlying idea and proof
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ftheftics
651 posts
#30 • 1 Y
Y by Adventure10
Sayan wrote:
The equation is an overkill I think. Take $t=1$. We have $f(x)=f(ex)$ for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$. Fix $x_0\in\mathbb{R}$. Then
$$f(x_0)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e}\right)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^2}\right)=\cdots=\lim_{n\to \infty} f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^n}\right) = f(0)$$The last one is true by continuity.
Thus $f(x)=f(0)$ for all $x\in \mathbb{R}$. Hence $f$ is a constant.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by ftheftics, Mar 21, 2020, 8:08 PM
Reason: T
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ftheftics
651 posts
#31
Y by
ftheftics wrote:
Sayan wrote:
The equation is an overkill I think. Take $t=1$. We have $f(x)=f(ex)$ for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$. Fix $x_0\in\mathbb{R}$. Then
$$f(x_0)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e}\right)=f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^2}\right)=\cdots=\lim_{n\to \infty} f\left(\frac{x_0}{e^n}\right) = f(0)$$The last one is true by continuity.
Thus $f(x)=f(0)$ for all $x\in \mathbb{R}$. Hence $f$ is a constant.

I think you need to use the continuous condition to show that it works for $x<0$ as well.
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Severus
742 posts
#32
Y by
adityaguharoy wrote:
jrc1729 wrote:
Let $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function such that for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$ and for all $t\geqslant 0$, $$f(x)=f(e^tx)$$Show that $f$ is a constant function.

A generalization of this problem asks whether we can replace the $e^t$ by any varying continuous function of a specific class.

I believe we can replace $e^t$ with any surjective function with domain either $(0,\infty), (-\infty,0)$ or best, $\mathbb{R}$.
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lifeismathematics
1188 posts
#35
Y by
{storage}

since it works/holds for all $t $, we assume $t=1$ for sake of simplicity

then we have $f(x)=f(ex) \forall x \in \mathbb{R}$

now we fix $\Omega \in \mathbb{R}$( any arbitrary) for which we define $\{x_{n}\}_{n=0}^{\infty}$ s.t. $x_{n}=\frac{\Omega}{e^{n}}$, then we have:
$f(x_{n})=f\left(\frac{\Omega}{e^{n-1}}\right)=f(\Omega)$

now since $f$ is continuous over $\mathbb{R}$ we take limits both sides with $n\rightarrow \infty$ and we know that for a continuous function over $\mathbb{R}$ we have a sequence in $\mathbb{R}$ say $\{y_{n}\}$ s.t. $\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}f(y_{n})=f\left(\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty } y_{n}\right)$

so from this fact we get $f(\Omega)=f\left(\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \frac{\Omega}{x^{n-1}}\right)\implies f(\Omega)=f(0)$

no we had chosen $\Omega$ to be arbitrary we replace $\Omega \rightarrow x$

we get $\boxed{f(x)=f(0)}$ hence $f$ is constant function. $\blacksquare$
This post has been edited 5 times. Last edited by lifeismathematics, Apr 17, 2023, 11:17 AM
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MV2
126 posts
#37
Y by
Solution with Motivation.

Let $x_0 \in \mathbb{R}, x_0 > 0$. Consider the interval $I = (x_0, \infty)$. Now consider $y \in I$. As $\frac{y}{x_0} > 1$, we have, $y_{0} = e^{\ln\frac{y}
{x_0}}$. So, as $\ln\frac{y}{x_0} > 0$, which satisfies the condition for $t$, we have, $f(x_0) = f(y)$. Therefore, if we consider any number $x_1$ s.t.
$0< x_1 < x_0$ we see that, $f(x_1) = f(y), \forall y \in (x_1, \infty)$. Hence, it's meaningful to consider a sequence on either side of $0$ that converges to $0$ and simultaneously making use of the property that the function is continuous.

Therefore, let ${(x_n)}_{n=0}^{\infty}$ be a sequence converging to $0$. Then ${(f(x_n))}_{n=0}^{\infty}$ converges to $f(0)$. And as, all the terms in the sequence are equal, the function is a constant function. $\blacksquare$
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by MV2, Aug 5, 2023, 6:06 AM
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bCarbon
18 posts
#38
Y by
Observe the statement holds over
(-\infty, 0) and (0, \infty)
because (1) t at least 0 implies exp(t) at least 0 and (2) exp(t) is monotonically increasing.

But why should
f(0) = f(x), x \neq 0
Continuity, or course.
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amar_04
1915 posts
#39 • 2 Y
Y by kamatadu, HoRI_DA_GRe8
ISI 2018 P3 wrote:
Let $f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}$ be a continuous function such that for all $x\in\mathbb{R}$ and for all $t\geqslant 0$, $$f(x)=f(e^tx)$$Show that $f$ is a constant function.

Let $x>y\ne 0$ and $t>0$, then $$e^tx=e^{t'}y\implies e^{t'}=e^t\left(\frac{x}{y}\right)\implies t'=t+\ln\left(\frac{x}{y}\right)$$since, $\frac{x}{y}>1\implies \ln\left(\frac{x}{y}\right)>0\implies t'=t+\ln\left(\frac{x}{y}\right)>0$. Thus, we have $\forall y<x$ $$f(x)=f(e^tx)=f\left(e^{t+\ln\left(\frac{x}{y}\right)}y\right)=f(y)$$Switch the roles of $x$ and $y$ we get $\forall y>x$ and $x,y\ne0$ we get $f(x)=f(y)$.
Now consider the sequence, $\left(\frac{1}{n}\right)\rightarrow 0$, since, $g$ is continuous, $$\left(f\left(\frac{1}{n}\right)\right)=\left(f(x)\right)\rightarrow f(0)=f(x)$$. Thus all in all, $f(x)=f(y)$ $\forall y\in\mathbb{R}$ which proves $f$ is constant. $\qquad\blacksquare$
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anudeep
64 posts
#40
Y by
We will first show that $f$ is constant over $\mathbb{R}_{\ge 0}$. Consider $a>0$. As $ae^t$ is continuous and not bounded above, I can always find a suitable $t\ge 0$ such that $ae^t=b$ for any $b\ge a$. Picking an $a$ arbitrarily close to $0$ assures that $f$ is a constant over $\mathbb{R}_{\ge 0}$, similarly we can argue that $f(a)=f(0)$ for all $a<0$, which is the required. $\square$
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