School starts soon! Add problem solving to your schedule with our math, science, and/or contest classes!

G
Topic
First Poster
Last Poster
k a July Highlights and 2025 AoPS Online Class Information
jwelsh   0
Jul 1, 2025
We are halfway through summer, so be sure to carve out some time to keep your skills sharp and explore challenging topics at AoPS Online and our AoPS Academies (including the Virtual Campus)!

[list][*]Over 60 summer classes are starting at the Virtual Campus on July 7th - check out the math and language arts options for middle through high school levels.
[*]At AoPS Online, we have accelerated sections where you can complete a course in half the time by meeting twice/week instead of once/week, starting on July 8th:
[list][*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics
[*]MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced
[*]AMC Problem Series[/list]
[*]Plus, AoPS Online has a special seminar July 14 - 17 that is outside the standard fare: Paradoxes and Infinity
[*]We are expanding our in-person AoPS Academy locations - are you looking for a strong community of problem solvers, exemplary instruction, and math and language arts options? Look to see if we have a location near you and enroll in summer camps or academic year classes today! New locations include campuses in California, Georgia, New York, Illinois, and Oregon and more coming soon![/list]

MOP (Math Olympiad Summer Program) just ended and the IMO (International Mathematical Olympiad) is right around the corner! This year’s IMO will be held in Australia, July 10th - 20th. Congratulations to all the MOP students for reaching this incredible level and best of luck to all selected to represent their countries at this year’s IMO! Did you know that, in the last 10 years, 59 USA International Math Olympiad team members have medaled and have taken over 360 AoPS Online courses. Take advantage of our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training (WOOT) courses
and train with the best! Please note that early bird pricing ends August 19th!
Are you tired of the heat and thinking about Fall? You can plan your Fall schedule now with classes at either AoPS Online, AoPS Academy Virtual Campus, or one of our AoPS Academies around the US.

Our full course list for upcoming classes is below:
All classes start 7:30pm ET/4:30pm PT unless otherwise noted.

Introductory: Grades 5-10

Prealgebra 1 Self-Paced

Prealgebra 1
Wednesday, Jul 16 - Oct 29
Sunday, Aug 17 - Dec 14
Tuesday, Aug 26 - Dec 16
Friday, Sep 5 - Jan 16
Monday, Sep 8 - Jan 12
Tuesday, Sep 16 - Jan 20 (4:30 - 5:45 pm ET/1:30 - 2:45 pm PT)
Sunday, Sep 21 - Jan 25
Thursday, Sep 25 - Jan 29
Wednesday, Oct 22 - Feb 25
Tuesday, Nov 4 - Mar 10
Friday, Dec 12 - Apr 10

Prealgebra 2 Self-Paced

Prealgebra 2
Friday, Jul 25 - Nov 21
Sunday, Aug 17 - Dec 14
Tuesday, Sep 9 - Jan 13
Thursday, Sep 25 - Jan 29
Sunday, Oct 19 - Feb 22
Monday, Oct 27 - Mar 2
Wednesday, Nov 12 - Mar 18

Introduction to Algebra A Self-Paced

Introduction to Algebra A
Tuesday, Jul 15 - Oct 28
Sunday, Aug 17 - Dec 14
Wednesday, Aug 27 - Dec 17
Friday, Sep 5 - Jan 16
Thursday, Sep 11 - Jan 15
Sunday, Sep 28 - Feb 1
Monday, Oct 6 - Feb 9
Tuesday, Oct 21 - Feb 24
Sunday, Nov 9 - Mar 15
Friday, Dec 5 - Apr 3

Introduction to Counting & Probability Self-Paced

Introduction to Counting & Probability
Wednesday, Jul 2 - Sep 17
Sunday, Jul 27 - Oct 19
Monday, Aug 11 - Nov 3
Wednesday, Sep 3 - Nov 19
Sunday, Sep 21 - Dec 14 (1:00 - 2:30 pm ET/10:00 - 11:30 am PT)
Friday, Oct 3 - Jan 16
Sunday, Oct 19 - Jan 25
Tuesday, Nov 4 - Feb 10
Sunday, Dec 7 - Mar 8

Introduction to Number Theory
Tuesday, Jul 15 - Sep 30
Wednesday, Aug 13 - Oct 29
Friday, Sep 12 - Dec 12
Sunday, Oct 26 - Feb 1
Monday, Dec 1 - Mar 2

Introduction to Algebra B Self-Paced

Introduction to Algebra B
Friday, Jul 18 - Nov 14
Thursday, Aug 7 - Nov 20
Monday, Aug 18 - Dec 15
Sunday, Sep 7 - Jan 11
Thursday, Sep 11 - Jan 15
Wednesday, Sep 24 - Jan 28
Sunday, Oct 26 - Mar 1
Tuesday, Nov 4 - Mar 10
Monday, Dec 1 - Mar 30

Introduction to Geometry
Monday, Jul 14 - Jan 19
Wednesday, Aug 13 - Feb 11
Tuesday, Aug 26 - Feb 24
Sunday, Sep 7 - Mar 8
Thursday, Sep 11 - Mar 12
Wednesday, Sep 24 - Mar 25
Sunday, Oct 26 - Apr 26
Monday, Nov 3 - May 4
Friday, Dec 5 - May 29

Paradoxes and Infinity
Mon, Tue, Wed, & Thurs, Jul 14 - Jul 16 (meets every day of the week!)
Sat & Sun, Sep 13 - Sep 14 (1:00 - 4:00 PM PT/4:00 - 7:00 PM ET)

Intermediate: Grades 8-12

Intermediate Algebra
Sunday, Jul 13 - Jan 18
Thursday, Jul 24 - Jan 22
Friday, Aug 8 - Feb 20
Tuesday, Aug 26 - Feb 24
Sunday, Sep 28 - Mar 29
Wednesday, Oct 8 - Mar 8
Sunday, Nov 16 - May 17
Thursday, Dec 11 - Jun 4

Intermediate Counting & Probability
Sunday, Sep 28 - Feb 15
Tuesday, Nov 4 - Mar 24

Intermediate Number Theory
Wednesday, Sep 24 - Dec 17

Precalculus
Wednesday, Aug 6 - Jan 21
Tuesday, Sep 9 - Feb 24
Sunday, Sep 21 - Mar 8
Monday, Oct 20 - Apr 6
Sunday, Dec 14 - May 31

Advanced: Grades 9-12

Calculus
Sunday, Sep 7 - Mar 15
Wednesday, Sep 24 - Apr 1
Friday, Nov 14 - May 22

Contest Preparation: Grades 6-12

MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics
Tues & Thurs, Jul 8 - Aug 14 (meets twice a week!)
Sunday, Aug 17 - Nov 9
Wednesday, Sep 3 - Nov 19
Tuesday, Sep 16 - Dec 9
Sunday, Sep 21 - Dec 14 (1:00 - 2:30 pm ET/10:00 - 11:30 am PT)
Monday, Oct 6 - Jan 12
Thursday, Oct 16 - Jan 22
Tues, Thurs & Sun, Dec 9 - Jan 18 (meets three times a week!)

MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Advanced
Tues & Thurs, Jul 8 - Aug 14 (meets twice a week!)
Sunday, Aug 17 - Nov 9
Tuesday, Aug 26 - Nov 11
Thursday, Sep 4 - Nov 20
Friday, Sep 12 - Dec 12
Monday, Sep 15 - Dec 8
Sunday, Oct 5 - Jan 11
Tues, Thurs & Sun, Dec 2 - Jan 11 (meets three times a week!)
Mon, Wed & Fri, Dec 8 - Jan 16 (meets three times a week!)

AMC 10 Problem Series
Tues & Thurs, Jul 8 - Aug 14 (meets twice a week!)
Sunday, Aug 10 - Nov 2
Thursday, Aug 14 - Oct 30
Tuesday, Aug 19 - Nov 4
Mon & Wed, Sep 15 - Oct 22 (meets twice a week!)
Mon, Wed & Fri, Oct 6 - Nov 3 (meets three times a week!)
Tue, Thurs & Sun, Oct 7 - Nov 2 (meets three times a week!)

AMC 10 Final Fives
Friday, Aug 15 - Sep 12
Sunday, Sep 7 - Sep 28
Tuesday, Sep 9 - Sep 30
Monday, Sep 22 - Oct 13
Sunday, Sep 28 - Oct 19 (1:00 - 2:30 pm ET/10:00 - 11:30 am PT)
Wednesday, Oct 8 - Oct 29
Thursday, Oct 9 - Oct 30

AMC 12 Problem Series
Wednesday, Aug 6 - Oct 22
Sunday, Aug 10 - Nov 2
Monday, Aug 18 - Nov 10
Mon & Wed, Sep 15 - Oct 22 (meets twice a week!)
Tues, Thurs & Sun, Oct 7 - Nov 2 (meets three times a week!)

AMC 12 Final Fives
Thursday, Sep 4 - Sep 25
Sunday, Sep 28 - Oct 19
Tuesday, Oct 7 - Oct 28

AIME Problem Series A
Thursday, Oct 23 - Jan 29

AIME Problem Series B
Tuesday, Sep 2 - Nov 18

F=ma Problem Series
Tuesday, Sep 16 - Dec 9
Friday, Oct 17 - Jan 30

WOOT Programs
Visit the pages linked for full schedule details for each of these programs!


MathWOOT Level 1
MathWOOT Level 2
ChemWOOT
CodeWOOT
PhysicsWOOT


Programming

Introduction to Programming with Python
Thursday, Aug 14 - Oct 30
Sunday, Sep 7 - Nov 23
Tuesday, Dec 2 - Mar 3

Intermediate Programming with Python
Friday, Oct 3 - Jan 16

USACO Bronze Problem Series
Wednesday, Sep 3 - Dec 3
Thursday, Oct 30 - Feb 5
Tuesday, Dec 2 - Mar 3

Physics

Introduction to Physics
Tuesday, Sep 2 - Nov 18
Sunday, Oct 5 - Jan 11
Wednesday, Dec 10 - Mar 11

Physics 1: Mechanics
Sunday, Sep 21 - Mar 22
Sunday, Oct 26 - Apr 26
0 replies
jwelsh
Jul 1, 2025
0 replies
k i A Letter to MSM
Arr0w   23
N Sep 19, 2022 by scannose
Greetings.

I have seen many posts talking about commonly asked questions, such as finding the value of $0^0$, $\frac{1}{0}$,$\frac{0}{0}$, $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$, why $0.999...=1$ or even expressions of those terms combined as if that would make them defined. I have made this post to answer these questions once and for all, and I politely ask everyone to link this post to threads that are talking about this issue.
[list]
[*]Firstly, the case of $0^0$. It is usually regarded that $0^0=1$, not because this works numerically but because it is convenient to define it this way. You will see the convenience of defining other undefined things later on in this post.

[*]What about $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$? The issue here is that $\infty$ isn't even rigorously defined in this expression. What exactly do we mean by $\infty$? Unless the example in question is put in context in a formal manner, then we say that $\frac{\infty}{\infty}$ is meaningless.

[*]What about $\frac{1}{0}$? Suppose that $x=\frac{1}{0}$. Then we would have $x\cdot 0=0=1$, absurd. A more rigorous treatment of the idea is that $\lim_{x\to0}\frac{1}{x}$ does not exist in the first place, although you will see why in a calculus course. So the point is that $\frac{1}{0}$ is undefined.

[*]What about if $0.99999...=1$? An article from brilliant has a good explanation. Alternatively, you can just use a geometric series. Notice that
\begin{align*}
\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{9}{10^n}&=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{10^n}=9\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\biggr(\frac{1}{10}\biggr)^n=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{1-\frac{1}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{\frac{1}{10}}{\frac{9}{10}}\biggr)=9\biggr(\frac{1}{9}\biggr)=\boxed{1}
\end{align*}
[*]What about $\frac{0}{0}$? Usually this is considered to be an indeterminate form, but I would also wager that this is also undefined.
[/list]
Hopefully all of these issues and their corollaries are finally put to rest. Cheers.

2nd EDIT (6/14/22): Since I originally posted this, it has since blown up so I will try to add additional information per the request of users in the thread below.

INDETERMINATE VS UNDEFINED

What makes something indeterminate? As you can see above, there are many things that are indeterminate. While definitions might vary slightly, it is the consensus that the following definition holds: A mathematical expression is be said to be indeterminate if it is not definitively or precisely determined. So how does this make, say, something like $0/0$ indeterminate? In analysis (the theory behind calculus and beyond), limits involving an algebraic combination of functions in an independent variable may often be evaluated by replacing these functions by their limits. However, if the expression obtained after this substitution does not provide sufficient information to determine the original limit, then the expression is called an indeterminate form. For example, we could say that $0/0$ is an indeterminate form.

But we need to more specific, this is still ambiguous. An indeterminate form is a mathematical expression involving at most two of $0$, $1$ or $\infty$, obtained by applying the algebraic limit theorem (a theorem in analysis, look this up for details) in the process of attempting to determine a limit, which fails to restrict that limit to one specific value or infinity, and thus does not determine the limit being calculated. This is why it is called indeterminate. Some examples of indeterminate forms are
\[0/0, \infty/\infty, \infty-\infty, \infty \times 0\]etc etc. So what makes something undefined? In the broader scope, something being undefined refers to an expression which is not assigned an interpretation or a value. A function is said to be undefined for points outside its domain. For example, the function $f:\mathbb{R}^{+}\cup\{0\}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ given by the mapping $x\mapsto \sqrt{x}$ is undefined for $x<0$. On the other hand, $1/0$ is undefined because dividing by $0$ is not defined in arithmetic by definition. In other words, something is undefined when it is not defined in some mathematical context.

WHEN THE WATERS GET MUDDIED

So with this notion of indeterminate and undefined, things get convoluted. First of all, just because something is indeterminate does not mean it is not undefined. For example $0/0$ is considered both indeterminate and undefined (but in the context of a limit then it is considered in indeterminate form). Additionally, this notion of something being undefined also means that we can define it in some way. To rephrase, this means that technically, we can make something that is undefined to something that is defined as long as we define it. I'll show you what I mean.

One example of making something undefined into something defined is the extended real number line, which we define as
\[\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup \{-\infty,+\infty\}.\]So instead of treating infinity as an idea, we define infinity (positively and negatively, mind you) as actual numbers in the reals. The advantage of doing this is for two reasons. The first is because we can turn this thing into a totally ordered set. Specifically, we can let $-\infty\le a\le \infty$ for each $a\in\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ which means that via this order topology each subset has an infimum and supremum and $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ is therefore compact. While this is nice from an analytic standpoint, extending the reals in this way can allow for interesting arithmetic! In $\overline{\mathbb{R}}$ it is perfectly OK to say that,
\begin{align*}
a + \infty = \infty + a & = \infty, & a & \neq -\infty \\
a - \infty = -\infty + a & = -\infty, & a & \neq \infty \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty] \\
a \cdot (\pm\infty) = \pm\infty \cdot a & = \mp\infty, & a & \in [-\infty, 0) \\
\frac{a}{\pm\infty} & = 0, & a & \in \mathbb{R} \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \pm\infty, & a & \in (0, +\infty) \\
\frac{\pm\infty}{a} & = \mp\infty, & a & \in (-\infty, 0).
\end{align*}So addition, multiplication, and division are all defined nicely. However, notice that we have some indeterminate forms here which are also undefined,
\[\infty-\infty,\frac{\pm\infty}{\pm\infty},\frac{\pm\infty}{0},0\cdot \pm\infty.\]So while we define certain things, we also left others undefined/indeterminate in the process! However, in the context of measure theory it is common to define $\infty \times 0=0$ as greenturtle3141 noted below. I encourage to reread what he wrote, it's great stuff! As you may notice, though, dividing by $0$ is undefined still! Is there a place where it isn't? Kind of. To do this, we can extend the complex numbers! More formally, we can define this extension as
\[\mathbb{C}^*=\mathbb{C}\cup\{\tilde{\infty}\}\]which we call the Riemann Sphere (it actually forms a sphere, pretty cool right?). As a note, $\tilde{\infty}$ means complex infinity, since we are in the complex plane now. Here's the catch: division by $0$ is allowed here! In fact, we have
\[\frac{z}{0}=\tilde{\infty},\frac{z}{\tilde{\infty}}=0.\]where $\tilde{\infty}/\tilde{\infty}$ and $0/0$ are left undefined. We also have
\begin{align*}
z+\tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne -\infty\\
z\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}, \forall z\ne 0
\end{align*}Furthermore, we actually have some nice properties with multiplication that we didn't have before. In $\mathbb{C}^*$ it holds that
\[\tilde{\infty}\times \tilde{\infty}=\tilde{\infty}\]but $\tilde{\infty}-\tilde{\infty}$ and $0\times \tilde{\infty}$ are left as undefined (unless there is an explicit need to change that somehow). One could define the projectively extended reals as we did with $\mathbb{C}^*$, by defining them as
\[{\widehat {\mathbb {R} }}=\mathbb {R} \cup \{\infty \}.\]They behave in a similar way to the Riemann Sphere, with division by $0$ also being allowed with the same indeterminate forms (in addition to some other ones).
23 replies
Arr0w
Feb 11, 2022
scannose
Sep 19, 2022
k i Marathon Threads
LauraZed   0
Jul 2, 2019
Due to excessive spam and inappropriate posts, we have locked the Prealgebra and Beginning Algebra threads.

We will either unlock these threads once we've cleaned them up or start new ones, but for now, do not start new marathon threads for these subjects. Any new marathon threads started while this announcement is up will be immediately deleted.
0 replies
LauraZed
Jul 2, 2019
0 replies
k i Basic Forum Rules and Info (Read before posting)
jellymoop   368
N May 16, 2018 by harry1234
f (Reminder: Do not post Alcumus or class homework questions on this forum. Instructions below.) f
Welcome to the Middle School Math Forum! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the rules.

Overview:
[list]
[*] When you're posting a new topic with a math problem, give the topic a detailed title that includes the subject of the problem (not just "easy problem" or "nice problem")
[*] Stay on topic and be courteous.
[*] Hide solutions!
[*] If you see an inappropriate post in this forum, simply report the post and a moderator will deal with it. Don't make your own post telling people they're not following the rules - that usually just makes the issue worse.
[*] When you post a question that you need help solving, post what you've attempted so far and not just the question. We are here to learn from each other, not to do your homework. :P
[*] Avoid making posts just to thank someone - you can use the upvote function instead
[*] Don't make a new reply just to repeat yourself or comment on the quality of others' posts; instead, post when you have a new insight or question. You can also edit your post if it's the most recent and you want to add more information.
[*] Avoid bumping old posts.
[*] Use GameBot to post alcumus questions.
[*] If you need general MATHCOUNTS/math competition advice, check out the threads below.
[*] Don't post other users' real names.
[*] Advertisements are not allowed. You can advertise your forum on your profile with a link, on your blog, and on user-created forums that permit forum advertisements.
[/list]

Here are links to more detailed versions of the rules. These are from the older forums, so you can overlook "Classroom math/Competition math only" instructions.
Posting Guidelines
Update on Basic Forum Rules
What belongs on this forum?
How do I write a thorough solution?
How do I get a problem on the contest page?
How do I study for mathcounts?
Mathcounts FAQ and resources
Mathcounts and how to learn

As always, if you have any questions, you can PM me or any of the other Middle School Moderators. Once again, if you see spam, it would help a lot if you filed a report instead of responding :)

Marathons!
Relays might be a better way to describe it, but these threads definitely go the distance! One person starts off by posting a problem, and the next person comes up with a solution and a new problem for another user to solve. Here's some of the frequently active marathons running in this forum:
[list][*]Algebra
[*]Prealgebra
[*]Proofs
[*]Factoring
[*]Geometry
[*]Counting & Probability
[*]Number Theory[/list]
Some of these haven't received attention in a while, but these are the main ones for their respective subjects. Rather than starting a new marathon, please give the existing ones a shot first.

You can also view marathons via the Marathon tag.

Think this list is incomplete or needs changes? Let the mods know and we'll take a look.
368 replies
jellymoop
May 8, 2015
harry1234
May 16, 2018
Number Finding!
Kushagra2012   19
N an hour ago by Kushagra2012
Find My Numbers!

The challenge for you is to identify three distinct whole numbers where the result of adding them together is the same as the result of multiplying them together.
19 replies
Kushagra2012
Yesterday at 1:35 AM
Kushagra2012
an hour ago
9 MathDash
booking   48
N an hour ago by Andyluo
If you pay for MathDash, specifically lessons, could you please give feedback below?
48 replies
booking
Jul 6, 2025
Andyluo
an hour ago
lim sup (n_{k+1} - n_k) = ∞
fxandi   0
an hour ago
Prove that if \(\displaystyle\sum\limits_{k \geq 1}\varepsilon_k 2^{-n_k}\) is irrational, then \(\limsup (n_{k+1} - n_k) = \infty\).
In the problem above \(\{\varepsilon_k\}\) is arbitrary sequence with elements \(+1\) and \(-1\) and $\{n_k\}$ is a strictly increasing sequence of positive integers$.$
0 replies
fxandi
an hour ago
0 replies
Khan Academy vs. MSM vs. Alcumus
a.zvezda   13
N an hour ago by Spacepandamath13
Which one is best for AMC8 prep? I want to improve geo and algebra and some C&P.
13 replies
a.zvezda
Yesterday at 6:17 PM
Spacepandamath13
an hour ago
6-7 number pairs
hellohi321   9
N 2 hours ago by Spacepandamath13
Define a 6-7 number pair to be a pair of consecutive positive integers such that when read out loud one after another, you hear the phrase "six seven". For example, 76, 77 is a 6-7 number pair since it is pronounced "seventy-six seventy-seven". Find a closed form for the number of 6-7 pairs in which both terms are less than $10^n$

Sorry if this has a lot of brainrot lol. I thought of this while listening to brainrotted kids as a summer volunteer
9 replies
hellohi321
Jul 27, 2025
Spacepandamath13
2 hours ago
The 24 Game Only Basic Operations
maxamc   72
N 2 hours ago by K1mchi_
Use the numbers $1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10$ (you must use all numbers) and the operations $+,-,\cdot,\div$ ONLY to create all positive integers in order. I will repeat 1 more time: ONLY these 4 operations (no concatenation or anything like totient etc.)

No using ChatGPT, programming, Wolfram|Alpha etc. to solve a number.

Solutions
72 replies
maxamc
Jul 25, 2025
K1mchi_
2 hours ago
Smart Mathathon
Kushagra2012   4
N 3 hours ago by JerryZYang
The Smart Mathathon!

This is my smart mathathon! Try to create problems on this forum topic.
Example:

You could post this: Do $4576 + 3457 * 0 - 0$ in the smartest way possible (don't post this problem).

The post below the other post MUST include 2 answers from a above problem. First and second people who post do not have problems to solve, but they should make one.

And begin!
4 replies
Kushagra2012
4 hours ago
JerryZYang
3 hours ago
MATHCOUNTS Geometry Problem
Owinner   3
N 3 hours ago by Leeoz
This problem is the MATHCOUNTS 2019 Chapter Sprint #29. I have solved it before using mass points and area techniques, but that was after many failures. I actually tried it recently, and I wasn't able to do it. I would like to know if there is another solution instead of mass points. A solution using mass points is fine as well.
3 replies
Owinner
Yesterday at 3:33 AM
Leeoz
3 hours ago
A tale of dragons - demo
ethanhansummerfun   1
N 3 hours ago by Ynsg
This is a part of a series that I’ve been working on. If y’all like this type of problem I can publish the whole set.

4. In the land of $\sqrt{-1}$, the continent is divided into $10$ regions, as shown. Dragon island, far in the northeast, has just birthed $12$ dragolings. Dragolings are very territorial. Any dragoling next to another one of the same element will immediately attempt to annihilate one another and lay waste to the entire continent. You must assign each dragoling to its own region. Adjacent sides are NOT ok, but touching corners are. An old master informs you just before you convene your council that an extremely rare wind dragoling may be coming. He informs you that it must have one ice, fire, AND lightning adjacent to it or else it will be bored and also destroy the whole continent. Dismissing it as a myth, your council informs you that you have enough power to create $2$ new regions by cutting any already existing region in half by connecting points not adjacent to each other such that the line drawn passes through exactly $1$ region. As you ask your scouts what they saw, you realize in horror that they said they scouted $4$ fire, $4$ ice, $3$ lightning, and $1$ mysterious white dragon, the legendary wind dragon. This is not a Zelda reference even though my pfp says otherwise.

You have 10 minutes. (not really) Which 2 regions should you bisect to save the continent?
1 reply
ethanhansummerfun
Yesterday at 4:36 AM
Ynsg
3 hours ago
Need explanation for proof
Kazzep   2
N 4 hours ago by Kazzep
Source: Apostol Calc Volume 1 Theorem 1.41 page 42-3
Could someone help explain this proof for the cauchy-schwarz inequality? How did the author derive that form? And why should the inequality to be proven have to be imaginary? And the original theorem is simply using summations how did it lead into a quadratic equation? pls and ty :D
2 replies
Kazzep
Yesterday at 8:13 AM
Kazzep
4 hours ago
My First Math Tournament
dragnin   31
N 4 hours ago by superhuman233
I'm back with a 2nd math story! :jump: Do you remember your first math competition? Was it scary? :noo: Did you brag a lot after it even though you were probably not as smart as you say? :flex: I think we all improved a lot since then! :icecream:
Click to reveal hidden text
Epilogue:
Click to reveal hidden text

Here is my other story if anyone is interested: https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c3t968896f3h2640331_the_best_day_of_my_life_so_far_an_inspiring_story

Thank you for reading!

31 replies
dragnin
Sep 12, 2021
superhuman233
4 hours ago
Smart Math
Kushagra2012   4
N 4 hours ago by Kushagra2012
Smart Calculations

Here is a set of problems!

$1$) What is the fastest way to solve this with paper and pencil only?: $4000 + 603 + 97 + 100 + 400 * 0 + 1200 + 0 + 0 + 100 + 10000 + 0 + 500$.

$2$) Calculate $7532 * 3 + 6784 * 0 + 0$.

$3$) A car travels at $60$ miles per hour for $2$ hours and $30$ minutes. Then, the car increases its speed by $10$ miles per hour and continues for another hour and $45$ minutes. How far did the car travel in total?
4 replies
Kushagra2012
6 hours ago
Kushagra2012
4 hours ago
Limit of expression
enter16180   2
N 4 hours ago by bsf714
Source: IMC 2025, Problem 10
For any positive integer $N$, let $S_N$ be the number of pairs of integers $1 \leq a, b \leq N$ such that the number $\left(a^2+a\right)\left(b^2+b\right)$ is a perfect square. Prove that the limit
$$
\lim _{N \rightarrow \infty} \frac{S_N}{N}
$$exists and find its value.
2 replies
enter16180
Yesterday at 11:51 AM
bsf714
4 hours ago
Polynomial
enter16180   5
N 6 hours ago by nitr4m
Source: IMC 2025, Problem 1
Let $P \in \mathbb{R}[x]$ be a polynomial with real coefficients, and suppose $\operatorname{deg}(P) \geq 2$. For every $x \in \mathbb{R}$, let $\ell_x \subset \mathbb{R}^2$ denote the line tangent to the graph of $P$ at the point ( $x, P(x)$ ).
a) Suppose that the degree of $P$ is odd. Show that $\bigcup_{x \in \mathbb{R}} \ell_x=\mathbb{R}^2$.
b) Does there exist a polynomial of even degree for which the above equality still holds?
5 replies
enter16180
Wednesday at 11:12 AM
nitr4m
6 hours ago
Pattern from Euler's Method on e^x
fz0718   5
N Jul 25, 2015 by Kent Merryfield
After reading the section in AoPS Calculus on Euler's Method, I was experimenting with a little python script to calculate $e^{0.3}$ with this method (as the book recommended), but I also tried varying the number of steps used.
import sys
import math

def diff_exp(x, y):
	'''A function representing a differential equation.

	This function represents y' = diff_equation(x, y), which
	is the differential equation for e^x.
	'''
	return y

def euler(start, val, target, equation, steps):
	increment = (target - start) / steps
	for step in range(steps):
		val = val + increment * equation(start, val)
		start += increment
	return val

def main():
	print("Steps|Absolute Error")
	print("-----|--------------")
	amt = 1
	for i in range(6):
		error = abs(euler(0, 1, 0.3, diff_exp, amt) - math.exp(0.3))
		print("10^%02d|%.12f" % (i, error))
		amt *= 10

if __name__ == '__main__':
	status = main()
	# sys.exit(status) # doesn't work on pywindow

If you run the code, you get the results from applying euler's method to calculate $e^{0.3}$ with $10^0$, $10^1$, $10^2$, etc. steps.

But there appears to be a pattern in the errors. To see this pattern, here are a couple more rows of the output:
[code]Steps|Absolute Error
-----|--------------
10^00|0.049858807576
10^01|0.005942428232
10^02|0.000606088209
10^03|0.000060730134
10^04|0.000006074229
10^05|0.000000607435
10^06|0.000000060744
10^07|0.000000006074[/code]
After $10^3$ steps, the error seems to decrease by almost exactly a factor of $10$ when the number of steps is increased by a factor of $10$. Can anyone give an explanation for this seemingly inversely proportional behavior?
5 replies
fz0718
Jul 23, 2015
Kent Merryfield
Jul 25, 2015
Pattern from Euler's Method on e^x
G H J
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
fz0718
1124 posts
#1 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
After reading the section in AoPS Calculus on Euler's Method, I was experimenting with a little python script to calculate $e^{0.3}$ with this method (as the book recommended), but I also tried varying the number of steps used.
  1. import sys
  2. import math
  3.  
  4. def diff_exp(x, y):
  5. '''A function representing a differential equation.
  6.  
  7. This function represents y' = diff_equation(x, y), which
  8. is the differential equation for e^x.
  9. '''
  10. return y
  11.  
  12. def euler(start, val, target, equation, steps):
  13. increment = (target - start) / steps
  14. for step in range(steps):
  15. val = val + increment * equation(start, val)
  16. start += increment
  17. return val
  18.  
  19. def main():
  20. print("Steps|Absolute Error")
  21. print("-----|--------------")
  22. amt = 1
  23. for i in range(6):
  24. error = abs(euler(0, 1, 0.3, diff_exp, amt) - math.exp(0.3))
  25. print("10^%02d|%.12f" % (i, error))
  26. amt *= 10
  27.  
  28. if __name__ == '__main__':
  29. status = main()
  30. # sys.exit(status) # doesn't work on pywindow

If you run the code, you get the results from applying euler's method to calculate $e^{0.3}$ with $10^0$, $10^1$, $10^2$, etc. steps.

But there appears to be a pattern in the errors. To see this pattern, here are a couple more rows of the output:
Steps|Absolute Error
-----|--------------
10^00|0.049858807576
10^01|0.005942428232
10^02|0.000606088209
10^03|0.000060730134
10^04|0.000006074229
10^05|0.000000607435
10^06|0.000000060744
10^07|0.000000006074

After $10^3$ steps, the error seems to decrease by almost exactly a factor of $10$ when the number of steps is increased by a factor of $10$. Can anyone give an explanation for this seemingly inversely proportional behavior?
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by fz0718, Jul 23, 2015, 4:46 PM
Z K Y
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
Grismor
196 posts
#2 • 4 Y
Y by fz0718, MSTang, Adventure10, Mango247
So the key in understanding why this occurs is to first understand what you're doing.

You're applying Euler's method, starting at $x=0$, $y=1$, and going to $x=.3$ in $n$ steps. At every step, you transform $f(x)$ into $f(x)+f(x)*.3/n$, or in other words, each step takes $f(x)$ and replaces it with $f(x)*(1+.3/n)$. Since we do this n times, the final value is $f(0)*(1+.3/n)^n=(1+.3/n)^n$.

Now, when you find the error, you do the following computation: $exp(.3)-(1+.3/n)^n$, and if we wanted to "normalize" this error, we could multiply by n and get $n(exp(.3)-(1+.3/n)^n)$. At this point, the math becomes easier if we replace $n$ with $1/t$:

$n(exp(.3)-(1+.3/n)^n=(exp(.3)-(1+.3t)^1/t))/t$

Our goal is to find what the limit is as n approaches infinity, or as t approaches 0. After applying L'Hopital's rule several times, including some logarithmic differentiation, you get a final answer: $.045exp(.3)=.0607436...$. In general, when approximating the value of $e^a$, the "normalized" error is $((a^2)*e^a)/2$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Grismor, Jul 24, 2015, 3:33 AM
Reason: Math typo
Z K Y
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
jmerry
12096 posts
#3 • 3 Y
Y by fz0718, Adventure10, Mango247
Actually, the specific differential equation has very little to do with this behavior, except that the exponential makes it easy to calculate exactly. If we use Euler's method to estimate the solution to a differential equation $y'=f(x,y)$ with steps of length $\epsilon$, the truncation error at a single step is $\epsilon^2\cdot \frac{y''(x_0)}{2}$, where $x_0$ is somewhere in that interval. To reach a fixed value of $x$, we need a number of steps proportional to $\frac1{\epsilon}$, for a total error proportional to $\epsilon$.

But that's not all - we have errors compounding on errors, from the changes in $f$ when we input erroneous $y$-values. How big are they? Well, first, let's assume a Lipschitz condition on $f$, as in the uniqueness theorem. If $\left|f(x,y_1)-f(x,y_2)\right|\le L\left|y_1-y_2\right|$, this will add at most $L\epsilon$ times the previous error to the error at each step. After $n$ steps, our first-step error is multiplied by at most $(1+L\epsilon)^n \le e^{L\cdot n\epsilon}=e^{L\delta x}$. If we're targeting a fixed $x$-value, that's a constant multiplier; compounding error makes our constant worse, but doesn't change the proportionality to step length.

If you don't have that Lipschitz condition, you can't expect Euler's method to work at all; that's the domain of such examples as non-unique solutions or solutions that blow up to $\infty$ at finite $x$.
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Kent Merryfield, Jul 25, 2015, 3:16 AM
Z K Y
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#4 • 3 Y
Y by fz0718, Adventure10, Mango247
One amusing sideline is to try to solve the "differential equation" $y'=g(x).$ Of course, this is just an integration problem. Using Euler's method to approximate the solution is precisely the same thing as approximating the integral by left-endpoint Riemann sums. And the behavior of the error would be exactly the same as what you've documented.

jmerry has given the estimate that the error in a single step is proportional to $\epsilon^2$ where $\epsilon$ is the step size. Let me change letters of the alphabet and say the step size is $h,$ and the single-step error is $\frac12y''(\text{somewhere})\cdot h^2.$

In the conventional language of numerical analysis, we say that Euler's method is a first order method.

But wait a minute: isn't that an $h^2?$ Why are we calling it first order? It turns out that the proper definition of "local truncation error" is to take the (new) error produced by a single step of size $h$, and then divide that error by $h$. So in this case, we take the $O(h^2)$ that jmerry computed, divide it by $h,$ and get a local truncation error that is $O(h)$ -- in other words, first order. You can see the motivation for this definition in fz0718's post and code. He was aiming to cross a certain interval (in his case, to compute $y(0.3)$ starting from the initial condition $y(0)=1.$) To cross that interval with steps of size $h$ requires a number of steps that is proportional to $h^{-1},$ so we pile up that many new single-step errors. That justifies dividing by $h$ in the definition of local truncation error.

Any method for which the local truncation error tends to zero as $h\to 0$ is called consistent. A statement that the local truncation error tends to zero at a certain rate is a statement about the order of the method. And Euler's method is first order.

Any method that is not consistent is just formally wrong - you probably committed some sort of algebraic error when you designed it. But it turns out that that's not the only concern; you also have to worry about stability. Notice that above, I was careful to refer to the new error incurred at each step. But if you're partway across, your starting point for the step is itself in error. What happens as errors compound? I won't give a definition of stability - that's something to look up. It is possible to design a method that is consistent but unstable - but you'd have to use some kind of multi-step method to do that. A single-step method (like Euler) can't be unstable. Now what you really want of a method is for it to be convergent. That is, if we have $y(a)$ as a given initial condition and we want to compute $y(b)$ for some fixed $b,$ our estimate for $y(b)$ converges to the true $y(b)$ as $h\to 0.$ The big theorem: a method is convergent if and only if it is both consistent and stable.

One differential equations textbook that I know has a method that it calls "improved Euler." It turns out that this method also has another, more systematic name - but I'll leave that name out for now, so as not to spoil the fun. Here's the plan. Suppose we are trying to solve $y'=f(x,y),$ and we have a particular part-way-across estimated point $(x_n,y_n).$

Let $x_{n+1}=x_n+h.$
Form our first estimate of $y_{n+1}$ as in Euler. Call this $z$ and let $z=y_n+h\cdot f(x_n,y_n).$
Make a new change estimate based on this point and average the two to get the final estimate, which is to say:
Let $y_{n+1}=y_n+h\cdot(f(x_n,y_n)+f(x_{n+1},z))/2.$

(Of course, you should write the program so that you don't compute $f(x_n,y_n)$ twice.)

If you apply this method to the integration problem $y'=g(x),$ what well known method of integration do you get?

Now, I could whip up some numerical estimates myself easily enough, but I feel like having fz0718 practice his programming a little more. So here's the assignment (mostly intended for fz0718):

Program this method. Use the same problem as you did for Euler, and with the same goal - estimate $e^{0.3}.$ Use a variety of step sizes as before. (My one suggestion here is that cutting the step size by a factor of 10 each time may be a little too drastic - maybe you should use powers of 2 instead.) The errors should be going to zero, but how fast? From your numerical work, what does the order of this method appear to be?
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edited by Kent Merryfield, Jul 25, 2015, 3:58 AM
Z K Y
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
fz0718
1124 posts
#5 • 2 Y
Y by Adventure10, Mango247
Thank you all for your replies!

Code
Output

The quotient between successive errors is 4 now, when the quotient between #steps is 2. It seems like the error is now proportional to the square of the number of steps, so it's a second-order method? Wow, it doesn't seem like going from left-endpoint riemann sums to trapezoid rule makes this much a difference!

I tried doing a similar thing with simpson's rule, but I still ended up with a degree 2 method. Do there exist, in general, arbitrarily high order methods?
Z K Y
The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
Kent Merryfield
18574 posts
#6 • 3 Y
Y by fz0718, Adventure10, Mango247
Yes, "Improved Euler" is a second order method. The alternate name that I withheld earlier is "second order Runge-Kutta" or "RK2" for short. Applied to an integration problem, it would become the trapezoid rule, and yes, the trapezoid rule is second order. Going from left-endpoint to trapezoid would make precisely the same difference.

Simpson's rule is fourth order. The appropriate analogue for differential equations is fourth order Runge-Kutta, or RK4. RK4 is very much a workhorse of a method. Here's what it actually looks like (you wouldn't have guessed exactly this - you have to see it).

We're solving $y'=f(x,y)$ and we have reached point $(x_n,y_n).$ We're using step size $h.$
\begin{align*}k_1 &:= f(x_n,y_n)\\ 
k_2 &:= f(x_n+h/2,y_n+h\cdot k_1/2)\\
k_3 &:= f(x_n+h/2,y_n+h\cdot k_2/2)\\
k_4 &:= f(x_n+h,y_n+h\cdot k_3)\\
x_{n+1}&:=x_n+h\\
y_{n+1}&:=y_n+h(k_1+2k_2+2k_3+k_4)/6\end{align*}
One word of caution: in jmerry's post above, he hypothesized that $f(x,y)$ satisfied a Lipschitz condition in $y.$ That's strong enough to show that Euler is first order, but to show that some higher-order method is actually that higher order, you need for $f$ to have a certain number of bounded partial derivatives in $y$ as well.

One could construct methods of arbitrarily high order, but there are tradeoffs. The complexity of each step increases. If you were using a multi-step method, you have to worry about and analyze stability. And truncation error is always being played against roundoff error; the smaller the step size, the worse the problem with roundoff error. The main advantage of a higher order method is that it allows the use of larger step sizes, but beyond a certain point, you don't want to use a larger step size. RK4 hits a relative sweet spot among these tradeoffs.
Z K Y
N Quick Reply
G
H
=
a