Some thoughts on CA MATHCOUNTS

by rrusczyk, Jun 17, 2006, 3:21 PM

vRusczyk and I attended the Northern CA MATHCOUNTS contest this weekend (DPatrick and MCrawford went to Southern CA). This was my third year in a row attending the contest. As usual, we saw a lot of AoPSers at the top. I gave a little speech, and threw T-shirts into the crowd. I also spent a lot of time talking to parents and teachers, and picked up a little interesting information. However, the contest further convinced me that top CA students shouldn't focus too much on MATHCOUNTS. Positions 2 through 6 were tied, with first place only 1 point ahead. It's a true lottery at the top in CA. Sure, some people have an advantage in the lottery (like #1 in CA this year, who was the pre-contest favorite, as he attended Nationals last year and did quite well), but most students can really say no better than that they have a 25-50% chance of making Nationals. In most other states, these students would be set, but not in CA.

So, I suggest to strong 8th graders in CA that their goal in 8th grade should be qualifying for the USAMO. It's not unusual for more 8th graders to qualify for the USAMO than to make Nationals, and it also leads those students to more interesting math. Once a student is consistently getting 85-95% correct on every MATHCOUNTS test, it's time for them to move on.

I don't mean this to impugn MATHCOUNTS. I still think it's probably the most important thing going on in extracurricular math contests right now (with AMC and MOEMS likely close behind), but I do think that students at the very top should consciously 'graduate' themselves early if they're ready to do so.

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I wish I spent more time in 8th grade trying to get into USAMO. If I worked on that instead of MathCounts, I'm pretty sure I would have gotten in.

I'm still kind of upset that I might not make USAMO this year either.

by chesspro, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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It's true... I just sort of igNOREd Mathcounts in 8th grade. I had a pretty good chance at doing well at Nationals, but it got somewhat boring doing too many practices. I spent a lot of time that year doing practice AIMEs, and I think that really put me at an advantage in 9th grade.

by probability1.01, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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Quote:

It's not unusual for more 8th graders to qualify for the USAMO than to make Nationals, and it also leads those students to more interesting math.

I heartily endorse the second half of this statement.

However, the first half of the sentence was really striking. I didn't think it could be true, so I went to AMC archives. There are usually only about 10 eighth-grade USAMO qualifiers in the whole country in a typical year.

I found it hard to believe that there could be a state with more 8th grade USAMO qualifiers than National MATHCOUNTS finalists, but apparently that did actually happen in California in 2004.

Perhaps it will happen again this year, especially with AOPS funding expanding the USAMO qualifier pool.

by sophia, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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sophia wrote:

Quote:

It's not unusual for more 8th graders to qualify for the USAMO than to make Nationals, and it also leads those students to more interesting math.

However, the first half of the sentence was really striking. I didn't think it could be true, so I went to AMC archives. There are usually only about 10 eighth-grade USAMO qualifiers in the whole country in a typical year.

I found it hard to believe that there could be a state with more 8th grade USAMO qualifiers than National MATHCOUNTS finalists, but apparently that did actually happen in California in 2004.

Perhaps it will happen again this year, especially with AOPS funding expanding the USAMO qualifier pool.

I should have been more specific: I meant in California, it's not unusual for this to happen, and I should have been clear that I was thinking of the USAMO expansion (of which this year is just one step, according to the AMC Newsletter that came in the AIME packets). Sorry for the confusion! (Though I am surprised that it hasn't happened more frequently in CA - I guess I so remember 2004 because I worked with so many of those 8th grade qualifiers.)

by rrusczyk, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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Yeah, I definitely worked much harder at trying to make USAMO than at doing well at MathCounts this year...unfortunately, neither turned out particularly well. Foo. My dad was like, "It's your last chance at MC and your fifth-to-last chance at the USAMO, therefore MC is more important," but in my opinion the fact that it was my last chance to qualify as a middle-schooler made USAMO more important...but at least now I suddenly feel very motivated to study, which is cool.

by bookaholic, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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California's 2004 crop of six young USAMO qualifiers (if I'm counting correctly) is truly impressive.

NY has never had more than one eighth grade qualifier in a year and frequently has none.

They don't even have all that many young AIME qualifiers. This year, there were 14 AIME qualifying scores among students in eighth grade or below. There were at most 13 qualifying young students (because I know that at least one student qualified on both dates).

California looks like it has about four times as many young AIME qualifiers as NY. I believe that both states, indeed all states, would have had more young qualifiers if more young students had been given the opportunity to take the AMC exams.

by sophia, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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sophia wrote:

I believe that both states, indeed all states, would have had more young qualifiers if more young students had been given the opportunity to take the AMC exams.

Good point. I'll bring this up at the AMC meeting I'm attending in about 10 days. Maybe they can find a way to get more middle schools involved in the AMC 10 (particularly those with active/strong MATHCOUNTS programs).

by rrusczyk, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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bookaholic wrote:

Yeah, I definitely worked much harder at trying to make USAMO than at doing well at MathCounts this year...unfortunately, neither turned out particularly well.

I saw your photo in the latest SET newsletter, so I guess your SAT scores are fine.

A+MATH had a win-some, lose-some year of his own, so in our family we've been looking at what they can't take away from you: year-on-year progress. I blame AoPS

for the competition getting tougher, but I also praise AoPS for helping all the math-liking young people in the United States and around the world build social networks instead of studying alone.

by tokenadult, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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rrusczyk wrote:

sophia wrote:

I believe that both states, indeed all states, would have had more young qualifiers if more young students had been given the opportunity to take the AMC exams.

DEFINITELY there would be more young AIME qualifiers if only more middle-schoolers were taking the AMC 10. I was pretty pleased to see that my testing group included Minnesota's state champion on the AMC 10A and the AMC Region 5 champion on the AMC 10B (two different guys, both AoPSers, who liked to sit next to each other at MathPath last summer). The slowness with which AMC culture seeps into our friendly public schools here is one of the biggest things that keeps me homeschooling.

by tokenadult, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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Perhaps my story is opposite. Up until the end of 8th grade, I hardly took my eye off MathCounts. And I did end up beating probability1.01 and getting a $\$[/dollar]4000$ scholarship, which was pretty cool. I took the AMC 10 that year, but goofed off and got a score in the 80's. I did a couple local contests, but certainly didn't study or anything for them. Then last year, I suddenly made this jump from never taking the AMC 12 to making Blue MOP. I didn't study for ANY of the AMC-AIME-USAMO tests, just did really well at MATHCOUNTS and local contests. So I would say studying for MATHCOUNTS (with the exception of memorizing random 3-digit numbers that have a certain property instead of actually finding them) was very useful for me in the AMC contests. I don't have a parallel universe to compare, where I would focus more in 7th and 8th grade on making USAMO, but I certainly didn't do to bad for only studying for MATHCOUNTS.

by SamE, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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SamE wrote:

I don't think studying for MATHCOUNTS is *bad* thing to do, so long as you are enjoying it. However, in California, it can be demoralizing, as the big carrot for MATHCOUNTS is going to Nationals, and in California, there's a large lottery component to that.

If you're still enjoying MATHCOUNTS (I know I sure did in 8th grade), then by all means, keep at it. As you found, a deep mastery of MATHCOUNTS will make much of the AMC easy, and give you good starting points on the AIME and USAMO.

by rrusczyk, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM

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That's nice to say if you lost in CA mathcounts. But since i got third, i'd say that's a pretty good excuse for those who got 5th or 6th maybe. Making national mathcounts from CA makes me think that ya, it's a pretty good thing i actually practiced mathcounts instead of AIMEs. Good advice for the losers notheless.

by jimli, Jun 17, 2006, 3:22 PM