More musings on pricing

by rrusczyk, Jul 8, 2006, 4:00 PM

The recent 'discussion' on the WOOT early-bird deadline thread has me thinking about pricing issues again. Mainly, it's hard to be in a business where much of the world is trained to think of the good as 'free.' For whatever reason, many people seem to think education should be essentially free, yet will think nothing of paying through the nose for a mediocre music or athletic lesson. Those, people are used to paying for. However, most people appear to get their classes and their books for free. Until they get to college. Then, education is accepted as a business by the consumers. Until that point, it's just taxes that pay for education, and people by and large don't connect the dots, realizing that their tax dollars pay *much more* for their math classes than we charge. So, that's my semi-rant on the difficulties of pricing in the educational market in general. We're still wildly under-priced in virtually all our classes (per hour around 1/4 of EPGY for comparable classes), and in books, as well (compare our texts to any of the problem books put out by major publishers - prices about the same, our books have instruction rather than only problems, and are 1.5-4 times longer).

As for pricing for our classes specifically, we're widely off-market low on everything except WOOT, which I'd describe as moderately off-market low. The main reason we have to price WOOT differently than our other classes (aside from the fact that we have to start pricing something closer to reality in order to pay the bills) is that we re-create the class every year, partly because the program really only becomes viable if we have repeat students - the universe of olympiad hopefuls is quite small.

One amusing side note is that it's not unusual to hear from parents of long-time students of ours that we have to start increasing our prices faster so we can stay in business, hire more people, and create more educational opportunities. There's something to that argument, but we're not making any radical changes at this point. However, until we price the classes more accurately, it will be hard for us to find the time or money to create any new courses. (Though, somehow we keep convincing ourselves it's a good idea to do other things for free, like the AoPSWiki, which is off to a far better start than I imagined.)

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I guess I better take some classes now while they're still cheap! I'll have to talk to Joe and see what he reccomends...

by mysmartmouth, Jul 8, 2006, 4:30 PM

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Note to public: Give me bubka's location and an army grade knife. Now.

Note to Richard: This isn't a matter of relative pricing. 700 dollars is still a lot of money, no matter if EPGY is charginging more. This is a matter of absolute pricing. Just because you could sell us a high quality German sportscar for 10,000 dollars, effictively undercutting other dealers by a factor of ten, doesn't me we are going to buy, because most of us don't have ten thousand dollars on hand.

I really really really want to to take Woot, but I can't. Because my family simply doesn't have that kind of money to throw around.

by PenguinIntegral, Jul 8, 2006, 4:30 PM

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As I said many times, the majority of Romanian families (with average income at least 10 times less than an average American) pay much more than 700$\$[/dollar]$ per year for private lessons. That being said I think it's clear that WOOT is well underpriced, at least for people who make income in US.

by Valentin Vornicu, Jul 8, 2006, 4:36 PM

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Valentin Vornicu wrote:
As I said many times, the majority of Romanian families (with average income at least 10 times less than an average American) pay much more than 700$\$[/dollar]$ per year for private lessons. That being said I think it's clear that WOOT is well underpriced, at least for people who make income in US.
Sadly, American families scoff at paying _at all_ for education.

by PenguinIntegral, Jul 8, 2006, 4:50 PM

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The problem is that the Internet is directly associated with being free. The Internet is the ultimate source of information, offering knowledge to all who log on. The AoPSWiki is a perfect example of this database of information. It is hard for parents to spend 700 dollars on an Internet class, something which they believe should have minimal or no cost. When parents send their children to private schools for 20,000 dollars a year, they can see the benefits and understand exactly where their money is going. Parents (and I must admit that I sometimes feel this way too) cannot grasp where the money is going to when they buy an online class. Everday they drop their kids off at school they see the benefits of paying the tuition, but when their kids just go upstairs to their room and log onto their computer, they cannot grasp why it costs any money at all. At least that is what I believe.

by Rep123max, Jul 8, 2006, 4:56 PM

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I say that $\$[/dollar]700$ is a great price for WOOT since you get feedback and are taught usefull things you need to know to solve olympiad level problems. The time to get someone who knows how to solve olympiad level problems to teach you how to solve them is worth alot more than $\$[/dollar]700$. Unfortunately, I don't have $\$[/dollar]700$ to spend. So I guess I have to make MOP before taking WOOT.

by Xantos C. Guin, Jul 8, 2006, 6:54 PM

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Xantos C. Guin wrote:
I don't have $\$[/dollar]700$ to spend

by PenguinIntegral, Jul 8, 2006, 7:25 PM

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Hmmm. Seven hundred dollars doesn't seem like an insurmountable amount of money for a bright enterprising American kid with math skills. A couple of lawn jobs for a summer would easily generate that kind of cash along with the side benefit of a couple of hours of much-needed exercise.

If you can't mow grass or perform yard work (a problem for those living in Antartica), think about tutoring. You can probably make more money than the AoPS instructors on an hourly basis if you can help a couple of kids (ideally kids with wealthy parents) having trouble passing math in school. Just tell some local teachers that you are interested and if you have any kind of local math reputation, people will beg for your services. Private school teachers usually have the best contacts.

by gt59, Jul 8, 2006, 8:59 PM

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