Addendum to Previous Post on Employment

by rrusczyk, Jul 24, 2009, 7:49 PM

I note that the survey of the starting salaries is related to undergraduate degrees, and does not take into account the starting salaries of professional degrees such as MBA, MD, PhD, law degrees, etc. I think that observation just increases the evidence of how important people with math skills are -- these people are extremely useful without any further "education". If you get an English degree, chances are you're going to have to go pick up a specialized professional degree to get a really good job (or any job these days).

I might also note the prevalence of engineering on that list, which supports some of my feeling about education not being particularly well-aligned with careers. Engineering is one of the few majors that provides real professional development at an undergraduate level, in the sense of offering employable skills. That said, I still think problem solving ability trumps skills. But problem solving ability + skills (which engineering taught well will provide) is tough to beat.

(Somewhat related: why aren't there more hybrid undergrad-medical and undergrad-law programs? I suspect it's mainly an interest of it being difficult to overcome the entrenched interests of existing schools and professionals, but still....)

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If you get an English degree, chances are you're going to have to go pick up a specialized professional degree to get a really good job (or any job these days).

Although, according to the starting salaries for Princeton's class of 2008, the major which came in third, after computer science and electrical engineering, was....Classics?!? Good lord! How did this happen?

by Osud, Jul 24, 2009, 8:12 PM

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Easy, the one Classics major who was able to find a job went to work for mom and dad.

by rrusczyk, Jul 24, 2009, 9:15 PM

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I don't think it's entrenchment of professional schools as much as that that runs counter to the traditional American "liberal-arts" education. The idea is to discipline your mind, to train you to be a good citizen. The critical thinking skills you learn while pursuing an English degree don't necessarily have to be applied to analysis of literature in the future. Whether you agree that that's a worthy goal or not, I think that has more to do with the relative scarcity of undergrad professional programs at higher-tier schools.

by worthawholebean, Jul 24, 2009, 9:26 PM

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Hmmm. I don't know that I'd describe anything in my undergraduate experience as being intended to train me in being a better citizen (although one particular experience did do wonders at that -- meeting vRusczyk).

My question is, why can't those goals you suggest be integrated with professional training? I would venture that a great many people had their minds trained (and "became better citizens" -- I'm still not sure what that means) in law school or med school much more than they did as undergrads in an English or history department, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

by rrusczyk, Jul 24, 2009, 9:55 PM

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For what it's worth, the definition on Wikipedia:

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The term liberal arts denotes a curriculum that imparts general knowledge and develops the student’s rational thought and intellectual capabilities, unlike the professional, vocational, technical curricula emphasizing specialization.

The idea is somewhat vague. This is an area where I really don't feel qualified to have an opinion, so I don't.

by worthawholebean, Jul 24, 2009, 11:54 PM

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I guess my question is why should these things be considered orthogonal pursuits? In a sense, this is the whole point of AoPS -- integrating the "problem solving" with the "curriculum"; that is, the broader thinking and reasoning skills with the nuts and bolts of mathematics. I wonder why everything is not taught this way. I had an interesting conversation with a law professor at National MATHCOUNTS who explained that this approach could be particularly effective in law school in the right hands (and from my conversations with him, I suspect his hands fall in this category).

by rrusczyk, Jul 25, 2009, 12:42 AM