Where Are They Now

by rrusczyk, Jul 30, 2008, 4:09 PM

For those of you who are interested in what happens to math olympiad types, here's an article about a study of Russian olympiad winners. (Thanks to orl for pointing this out.)

Comment

4 Comments

The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
AoPS article "Pros and Cons of Math Competitions":

- http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Contests.php

Quite often mathematicians argue that math olympiads do not correspond to their actual research work which seems to be true. And thus, it is implied, an IMO medal does not mean anything.
Research work seems to deal with open-ended problems where it is unsure whether a solution can be found at all and if so what effort it takes. In math olympiad it appears that a solution exists and can be found in a limited scale of time given sufficient innate capability, motivation, passion and good training.

Apparently Mr. Nobel did not like math too much and we have the following comparable prizes being awarded every four years http://www.mathematik-olympiaden.de/IMOs/fields.html :

- Fields Medal http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FieldsMedal.html
- Nevanlinna Prize: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NevanlinnaPrize.html

Among the 8 winners of 1998 and 2002 events we find four IMO medal winners, one of them won the national olympiad of the Soviet Union but was prevented for non-math reasons to participate in the IMO, one of them won the USA undergraduate competition Putnam and one of them is coming from a country that did not participate in the IMO back then.

I have not checked more in detail for 2006 but I think it is widely known that Grigori won a perfect score at IMO 1982 and Terence participated several times at IMO (IMO 1986-1988) at a very young age (and seems to be the youngest IMO medal winner). He in collaboration with Ben Green (IMO 1995/1996) showed that a sequence of prime numbers contains arbitrarily long arithmetic progressions. Yuri Matiashevich (gold medal IMO 1964) solved Hilbert's Tenth Problem.

Of course in terms of admission different universities put varying emphasis on math olympiads. Some argue in favour of diverse student body, well-roundedness or put more focus on different ways to identify mathematical talent via research projects as Intel Science Talent Search Siemens Westinghouse Competition, research with a professor at the local university etc.

But of course not everybody goes on to solve an extremely important math problem and possible receive some prize for it. What happens to the more regular mathletes? There is an interesting study by Alexander Karp about those people in Saint Petersburg (Leningrad), Russia, Soviet Union:

- Thirty Years After: The Lives of Former Winners of Mathematical Olympiads (also appended)
-- http://pocketknowledge.tc.columbia.edu/home.php/viewfile/download/5706
- School 239 is so famous. It even got an article on wikipedia:
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg_Lyceum_239

by orl, Jul 31, 2008, 12:19 PM

The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
I recently did a little bit of research and tried to look up all of my classmates from MOP 1988 (which was the only year I went to MOP and the middle of rrusczyk's 3 years at MOP). It's been 20 years(!), so I couldn't track down a couple of people and sadly one of our classmates has passed away, but for the rest of us, there was an almost exact 1/3-1/3-1/3 split into three categories:

- math professors
- professors in a subject other than math (physics and CS mostly if I remember correctly, but one person is an economics professor)
- working outside of academia, either for the government (guess where?) or in the private sector (including, of course, me and rrusczyk at AoPS)

by DPatrick, Jul 31, 2008, 6:27 PM

The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
How many people participated in MO(S)P back then? What were other positions in the private sector except for AoPS? Do you think your observations will change over time a lot?

Advice on mathematics competitions by Terry Tao.

by orl, Aug 1, 2008, 9:30 AM

The post below has been deleted. Click to close.
This post has been deleted. Click here to see post.
Here are some interesting discussions about math education in America.
Terry Tao wrote:
The culture in the U.S. might not be the most intellectual one in the world, but it is at least relatively supportive of activities which lead to individual “success”, especially financial success. There seems to be a general (albeit vague) public awareness here that mathematics is somehow “useful” for various industries and careers (e.g. IT, finance, engineering, etc.), and so people here do seem to agree that maths is important, even if they mostly don’t want to touch the stuff themselves. It’s not ideal, but it’s significantly better than apathy or outright anti-intellectualism. For instance, while teaching undergraduate linear algebra here in the U.S., I’ve found that students respond well to the story of how two Stanford graduate students in mathematics and computer science managed to exploit the theory of singular value decompositions of large sparse matrices to create a rather well-known multi-billion dollar web search company :-) .

And there are some rather good educational resources lying around, if you know where to look. For instance, my four-year old son loves the Flash videos from brainpop.com, which are remarkably well done, both in presentation and in content.

Mathematics competitions, when used in moderation, are indeed a good way to show high school students that maths has more aspects than the often rather dry material covered in classes. Out here in the west coast, though, they haven’t seem to have taken much of a hold, especially compared against more well-known activities such as the Spelling Bee. Perhaps one problem is that while a good performance at the Bee can be appreciated by just about anyone, a good result at a maths competition is only really appreciated by the participant and the grader. It would be interesting to have a maths-themed event which might have wider appeal to a non-mathematical audience.
Terry Tao wrote:
It is somewhat ironic that people who choose non-mathematical careers in order to avoid “too much math” find that this lack of mathematical literacy comes back to haunt them at later stages of their career. I’ve seen investment bankers who need to learn Black-Scholes theory or other mathematical aspects of risk management, doctors who need to know advanced statistics in order to correctly follow current medical literature, and lawyers who need scientific literacy in order to handle expert testimony, not to mention understanding basic probability theory, rigorous definitions, and propositional logic. All three of them could also use mathematical literacy when it comes to more mundane tasks, such as selecting a mortgage for an expensive home.

I wouldn’t recommend mathematical academia for everyone - the main attractions are things like academic freedom, creative expression, intellectual challenge and satisfaction, (eventual) job security, flexible schedule, and lasting recognition or legacy, rather than purely monetary incentives - but I would definitely recommend mathematical literacy, both for its own intellectual sake and for its ability to enhance a surprisingly large number of careers. Though, if it is riches that is your primary goal, I can point to people such as Sergey Brin or Jim Simons as examples of people who have used an advanced mathematical education to become extremely wealthy and successful. But it is worth noting that while intellectual ability and training can be converted into money, the converse is not always true: if you’re so rich, why are you not smart?

by orl, Aug 1, 2008, 10:01 AM

Come Search With Me

avatar

rrusczyk
Archives
+ December 2011
+ September 2011
+ August 2011
+ March 2011
+ June 2006
AMC
Tags
About Owner
  • Posts: 16194
  • Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Blog Stats
  • Blog created: Jan 28, 2005
  • Total entries: 940
  • Total visits: 3315481
  • Total comments: 3882
Search Blog
a