What's the Purpose of Education

by rrusczyk, Jan 15, 2009, 8:12 PM

I was having a conversation about education with Randy Harter, the outgoing President of the North Carolina Council of Teachers of Mathematics. He's been a strong advocate for introducing more problem solving in the curriculum for all students, going as far as to argue that the AMC 8 should be the high school exit exam for math instead of the state test. (Yes, the AMC 8 is harder than high school exit exams.) I've had a number of interesting conversations with Randy, but in our most recent, I wrote the following:
Quote:
This does bring up a broader point that I struggle with a great deal -- why do people seek education? The vast majority do it for credentials, I believe, not for actual knowledge. Puts us at AoPS in a tough spot, of course. And it does raise the question of what the real value of most education actually is, because I think most employers are in on the gag -- they know that the credentials are merely very loose correlations to skills, or the ability to develop them, as opposed to being evidence of real skills. But it beats "nothing" as a filtering system (and the government has shot down many privately-developed ability evaluation programs employers once used).

I think my musings here are not unrelated to the battles you're fighting in math education. If education is really just viewed as a simple credentialing system, then most people have an incentive to keep it as dumbed-down and simple as possible (including both educators and students).

Worse yet, what if "credentialing system" really is all there is to education? I don't believe that's globally true, but I think it's more true than a lot of people care to admit.

Now, I realize that many AoPSers are not approaching education as merely a credentialing system, but I'd be interested to hear people's opinion on this.

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I've heard the argument that companies are deterred from administering their own intelligence or standardized testing by the Griggs versus Duke Power Supreme Court decision. The unintended consequence was for companies to rely more on schools for credentialing because they were unable to thoroughly screen candidates themselves. I don't know enough to argue for or against this interpretation but it is described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_public_policy

by djcordeiro, Jan 16, 2009, 2:12 AM

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Yeah, that's a big part of the government clamp-down I'm referring to. I don't know the legal issues around it either, but I certainly find it plausible.

by rrusczyk, Jan 16, 2009, 2:15 AM

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I don't view education as a credentialing system, but rather an opportunity to explore fascinating topics... but I don't think it's fair that those who don't see this opportunity should be subject to such an unfair and unreasonable system for gaining credentials.

by leoxnlin, Jan 17, 2009, 2:06 AM

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I think there are basically two approaches to education: One is originating from Germany and is called the Humboldt ideal and which you hope a considerable number of AoPS users fall into that category. US Universities as Stanford have incorporated it into their approach to education: “Die Luft der Freiheit weht” is Stanford’s unofficial motto and translates as “the wind of freedom blows.” (http://www.stanford.edu/about/facts/founding.html)

Humboldts University

Education and Character: The Classical Curriculum of Wilhelm von Humboldt

Actually I just see there is an article about the Humboldt ideal in the German online journal Spiegel, German, Spiegel, English Google Translation.

The other approach named here as "credentialing system" is just like any other investment. You invest resources as money, time, effort into education and professional qualifications to get a certain degree which is required to obtain a job in certain industry sector, get a promotion to higher position etc.
The incentive for females to take up this path also depends on certain factors. Richard has read books by Tim Harford. And in one of his articles he argues how the percentage of young black men in jail is correlated with young black females taking up university education. And due to different numbers and laws in the US States one could view it as a randomized trial.

by orl, Jan 17, 2009, 3:24 PM

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Two approaches for whom?

I'm looking at this from more than just the students' or teachers' perspectives, but also employers', governments', parents', potential mates', etc. I'm not even really sure what *my* answer to the question is. I'm pretty sure that as a student, I was far more interested in the credentialing and signaling aspect of school than in learning the material. Unsurprisingly, that's pretty much been the payoff for me, too. The credentials have been very valuable for me, but I'm not terribly sure I got *anything else* out of my formal education. Did the work habits and skills I have now come from school? Or are some of them essentially genetic, or were they learned as a response to my desire to attain particular credentials and goals (and what creds/goals were the most effective in inspiring this)? I'm not sure of the answers to these questions, for myself or anyone else, but I think the answers have important implications for education.

by rrusczyk, Jan 17, 2009, 8:32 PM

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i think this will interest you - http://paulgraham.com/credentials.html

by chess64, Jan 20, 2009, 1:00 PM

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Interesting indeed, but I do question his conviction that performance matters more and more than credentials today. How can you show you can perform if you don't have the credentials to get through the door?

Maybe part of the problem is that people today wait so long to enter the work force, so it's tough to show a history of work performance. (Academic performance, in my experience, is only somewhat correlated to work performance.)

by rrusczyk, Jan 21, 2009, 2:35 AM

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i used to not even care about the credentials until 7th grade but then i found aops and i was like woohoo math is awesome and not a boring repitition of problems with different numbers so i actually wnated to learn more math before that school was so broing i just wanted to get "A"s then go home and play video games all day

by peregrinefalcon88, Jan 22, 2009, 11:26 PM

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